Chain Lubricant Options

Matt O'Toole said:

How much oil do you put in your wax? I don't think plain wax lubricates enough.

I agree, plain wax doesn't lubricate enough. I tried plain wax when I
first read about this method back in the 1970s. It started squeaking
soon after a rainy ride.

How much oil do I blend into the wax? I've been saying "about 5%," but
that's not measured. I simply melted some paraffin in a pan and poured
in a little oil and stirred. I blended this concoction only twice in my
life - a pan lasts a long, long time. And my memory tells me nothing
more than "it looked about right."

One time I used motor oil, another time I used SAE 90 gear lube. I
think it's the gear lube that's in my current supply, but I'm not even
sure about that. Both work well.

Quoted message said:

Also, wax seems to make a mess of the drivetrain,
becoming caked all over everything.

With the addition of the oil, the chain doesn't stay _perfectly_ clean,
but it stays way, way cleaner than any oil-based lube I've used. After I
do the torch lube job, I wipe off all the excess by backpedaling through
a rag or paper towels. I don't get any significant "caking."

If I want to improve cleanliness between lube jobs, I can wipe the chain
and big chainring down with paper towels in about two minutes, and it
won't leave chain tattoos on my legs or work clothes. I do this
whenever I feel an urge for unusual cleanliness. That's about once
every six months! ;-)

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

H. M. Leary said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
and repeat.

When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
of miles.

WOW! is right, Frank.

I cannot believe a man of your inteligence would do this.

The Youngstown Fire Department must love it.

Hmmm. You say that as if it were known to cause some problem. If
you've heard of a single fire ever caused this way, be sure to let me know!

But I'll admit, I'm a hell of a risk taker. Evidence: We actually heat
our house by using a gas flame. Same for our hot water. Not only that,
we have naked gas flames right there in our kitchen, under the very food
we eat!

And then in our living room... you guessed it: Candles!! And a
fireplace! And we don't even put the candles in the fireplace before we
light them!

Yep. We live on the edge, all right! ;-)

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

Frank Krygowski said:

Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
on low flame.

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
and repeat.

When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
of miles.

Frank,

You've given this advice several times now. I wonder, though, how do
you deal with the plastic or rubber pulleys on the rear derailer? Do
you worry about them deforming or even melting?

Pat

Jockey wheels are made of a toughened Nylon that is pretty heat resistant.

Even so, this method isn't the best because you get wax on the cogs where it does no good. Yes, lube on the cogs is useless because the sliding surfaces are within the chain. The rollers do not slide on the cogs.

Since I remove my chain for cleaning, I also lubricate the chain off the bike. No problems with the dreaded White Lightning buildup on the jockey wheels. I heard some people say WL cannot be removed off jockey wheels as it becomes permanent.

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim McNamara

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Recently an experiment was made to determine whether cleaning a
chain before re-oiling improves durability and the results posted
here in this newsgroup. The chain was marked and split in two for
cleaning only one half, before reassembling and lubricating. Each
time the elongation (pitch wear) was measured. The cleaned portion
showed more wear than the one that was only re-oiled. I have no way
of verifying the measurements but there is no reason to doubt the
results. However, I reviewed the process.

I remember that post, and I remember being surprised by the results
since they were counter to the canonical recommendations.

It was my project and I was surprised too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally
cleans the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent
and sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine
grit came out of the apparently clean chain.

When I cleaned the solvent sloshed chain I did just what you described here. I
kept using fresh solvent until there was no visible grit in the last wash.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Frank Krygowski said:

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
and repeat.

WOW! is right, Frank.

I cannot believe a man of your inteligence would do this.

The Youngstown Fire Department must love it.

Hmmm. You say that as if it were known to cause some problem. If
you've heard of a single fire ever caused this way, be sure to let me know!

But I'll admit, I'm a hell of a risk taker. Evidence: We actually heat
our house by using a gas flame. Same for our hot water. Not only that,
we have naked gas flames right there in our kitchen, under the very food
we eat!

I'm picturing the scene from It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World where Sid
Ceasar leaves a propane torch pointed carelessly, and starts a fire
in the basement...

Weisse Luft said:

Jockey wheels are made of a toughened Nylon that is pretty heat
resistant.

Actually, I think the lastest upscale Shimano ones are some kind of ceramic.

Matt O.

SuperSlinky said...

Quoted message said:

I assume you mean that sounds like a lot. It is probably more like 300
miles now that I think about it, but naptha really does make it easy. I
always take off the derailleur pulleys and clean and lube them too. If
it needs it, I will take a wire brush to the cassette to remove excess
gunk there.

Oops. Actually I meant a plastic brush. A wire brush would be needlessly
harsh.

yawl cycle in the tarpits or what?
i hear luft cycles on a billyard table!

with a sand environment: one thinner rinse usually does the job-
but the inspection care rises with the oil's viscosity, different
oil, lower temp.
even a clean rinse bath post wash may produce a chain with grit
inbetween the side plates and i suppose inside the rollers then.
that's a good check: do the side plates, try several at different
lengths, CRUCNHCRUNCH when wiggled?
that's where the grit hides after a bath.
soak soak then swirl some more. a good soak of 20 minutes should
dissolve the oil holding the grits in there.

Pat Lamb said:

Frank Krygowski said:

Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane
torch on low flame.

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain
again until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots;
backpedal 8" and repeat.

When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning,
protect the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many
hundreds of miles.

Frank,

You've given this advice several times now. I wonder, though, how do
you deal with the plastic or rubber pulleys on the rear derailer? Do
you worry about them deforming or even melting?

Not a bit. I heat only the bottom strand of chain. After heating it
for the wax to flow into the pivots, I backpedal. The warm chain goes
around the front chainrings. By the time it gets back to the freewheel,
it's barely above room temperature.

In fact, sometimes in the past I tried to tell where I started (to see
if I'd lubed all the links) by feeling for warm links, and decided I
couldn't reliably tell. (I now sometimes mark the "first" link with chalk.)

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

Weisse Luft said:

Even so, this method isn't the best because you get wax on the cogs
where it does no good.

Not so. Try it and see. The cogs stay pretty clean.

After many, many miles, you may build up a small amount of wax on the
cogs, but it's certainly not troublesome.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

acetone not only destroys lung tissues and absorbs into the blood
stream
BUT!
the stuff emulsifies oil, does it not?
that leaves emulsified oil particles inside the inbetween areas
holding, I guess grit particles.
If one uses thinner, the thinner can be rebottled and then the grit
will settle to the bottom over a week's time and will not pour back
out ifn ur careful.
the energy cost associated with recycled thinner may be less than say
citric acid that comes on stage thru a lengthy boiling process? or
with detergents?
ON DETERGENT'S: i ahve read that soap and water and detergent is a
minus when applioed to lubricated bearing surfaces. that clean with a
like substance cleaner-oil based-is a better deal. think about the
"this [censored] bonds to the chain rollers so you gotta buy it NOW NOW at
$25/oz" statements that roll past.
Gee, anyway, how clean does the chain need to be. get the grit outa
the insides! but towelish clean? 100 yards down the drive and you pick
up more tyhan that..
see "DIY chainguard $2" in bike.tech archives if your that compulsive.

further thought on the acetone as ultimate cleaner-
the oil has several components and one or two does not rinse out with
acetone but solidifies into film(s) holding grit particles.

"Jay Richolson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
generally in dry conditions??

1. Foaming chain-lube. Available at motorcycle parts stores
2. Chain saw oil.

These two choices have a unique and amazing advantage--they are
designed to lubricate chains. They also happen to be very inexpensive.
The foaming chain lube is especially convenient as it is easy to apply
without removing and soaking the chain.

30W oil (not 10W30) is also okay, but less tenacious than chain
lubricants.

Avoid any kind of wax; it keeps the chain clean, but it lubricates
very, very poorly.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jay Richolson said:

Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike ridden
generally in dry conditions??

Hi Jay,

I've gone through 14 of the 76 posts on this thread, and so far, haven't
seen anyone advocating Phil Woods Oil.

I swear by this stuff, as it's kept my road bike going since 1987.
Then, I'm very careful to keep the chaining running as straight as
possible over the cogs/chainrings. I don't tolerate chain deflection,
and neither is my dear old bike likely to either, nowadays.

My understanding is that Phil Woods Oil is much like the chain saw oil
combination mentioned here.

The nice thing about it, is that you don't need to experiment in mixing
two components together. I've also found Phil Woods Oil to be about the
cheapest in LBSs.

One trick, is to keep your drivetrain as clean as possible, regardless
of lube used. This is why I prefer silver coloured chains, as the
buildup of gunk is easily noticed, and I know to wipe it down. with an
old rag or paper towel. Once done, I put one small drop of oil on each
bushing of the chain, on the inside of the chain where it runs from the
pulley wheels back to the chain-rings. Once oiling the whole chain is
completed, I work it into the chain by running my fingers along the
chain while spinning the cranks backwards. Once I've worked the oil
into the chains' bushings, I wipe off the excess with a rag/paper towel.

When finished, you should find a thin film of oil on your finger tips
after running them over the oiled surface of the chain.

This is how I was taught to do it in bike shops as an employee, and it's
worked for me for years, keeping my baby running smoothly.

Hope this helps

In article <[email hidden]>,

Terry Morse said:

SuperSlinky said:

I clean my chains about once every 150 miles or so by soaking them in
naptha, a somewhat hard to find solvent.

Naptha's a pretty hazardous material to be using it as a solvent.
Vapors are harmful, and the flash point is 122F. There are safer
alternatives. Wear gloves, use in well ventilated areas only, and
keep the container closed.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Another option, perhaps less expensive, is paint thinner. Use golves
though, because it can really get into your skin. And simple laytex
gloves just disolve in it, so you'll need good think rubber ones.

Once I've gone over the parts with an old toothbrush, to get the gunk
and grit out, I through them into a bucket of warm water with a strong
dose of dish soap. This way, I get the paint thinner off. Swish this
'concoction' around thoroughly, and then rise with warm water.

I find when I can put the parts up to my nose, and no longer smell any
paint thinner, I know I've got them clean.

A simple process, but can be pain-stakingly boring - but it sure gets
them parts clean!

The Big Pedalnut said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jay Richolson said:

Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike
ridden generally in dry conditions??

Hi Jay,

I've gone through 14 of the 76 posts on this thread, and so far,
haven't seen anyone advocating Phil Woods Oil.

I swear by this stuff, as it's kept my road bike going since 1987.
Then, I'm very careful to keep the chaining running as straight as
possible over the cogs/chainrings. I don't tolerate chain deflection,
and neither is my dear old bike likely to either, nowadays.

My understanding is that Phil Woods Oil is much like the chain saw oil
combination mentioned here.

The nice thing about it, is that you don't need to experiment in
mixing two components together. I've also found Phil Woods Oil to be
about the cheapest in LBSs.

One trick, is to keep your drivetrain as clean as possible, regardless
of lube used. This is why I prefer silver coloured chains, as the
buildup of gunk is easily noticed, and I know to wipe it down. with an
old rag or paper towel. Once done, I put one small drop of oil on
each bushing of the chain, on the inside of the chain where it runs
from the pulley wheels back to the chain-rings. Once oiling the
whole chain is completed, I work it into the chain by running my
fingers along the chain while spinning the cranks backwards. Once
I've worked the oil into the chains' bushings, I wipe off the excess
with a rag/paper towel.

When finished, you should find a thin film of oil on your finger tips
after running them over the oiled surface of the chain.

This is how I was taught to do it in bike shops as an employee, and
it's worked for me for years, keeping my baby running smoothly.

Hope this helps

I actually use Phil Oil most of the time. But honestly, a thinner, less sticky
oil would be better. No matter how sparing I am with the Phil, gooey strings
come off the cogs and derailer pulleys and fall all over everything, including
my rim. Even with lots of wiping, this doesn't go away until I ride for a
couple of hours.

Phil Oil is indispensible for some other bike things, like Judy forks and
Shimano freehubs, but for chains it's a little goopy. Thinner oil, even motor
oil, would be better for chains. But I happen to have the Phil handy, in a
convenient drip bottle, so that's what I use.

IOW, what I really think is: it doesn't really matter that much.

I've found it good practice to wipe the chain both before and after riding.
After goes without saying -- to remove any grit that's collected during the
ride. But wiping before removes oil that's seeped out of the chain since the
last ride, and helps keep new dirt from sticking. A couple of revolutions
through an old terry washcloth does the trick.

Matt O.

This year I tried White Lighting Lub for my chain. It is a wax base and
does not attract dirt. I have tried Phil Woods Oil and A Teflon Lube
Product prior to using White Lighting Product. It is a little pricey but it
gets the job done. For the first use of White Lighting ensure that your
chain is compleetly dergreased and dry. Apply the White Lighting and let
sit for a couple of hours and remove the excess. I hope this helps you out.

Mike.
"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Big Pedalnut said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jay Richolson said:

Any thoughts on the best choice of chain lubricant for a road bike
ridden generally in dry conditions??

Hi Jay,

I've gone through 14 of the 76 posts on this thread, and so far,
haven't seen anyone advocating Phil Woods Oil.

I swear by this stuff, as it's kept my road bike going since 1987.
Then, I'm very careful to keep the chaining running as straight as
possible over the cogs/chainrings. I don't tolerate chain deflection,
and neither is my dear old bike likely to either, nowadays.

My understanding is that Phil Woods Oil is much like the chain saw oil
combination mentioned here.

The nice thing about it, is that you don't need to experiment in
mixing two components together. I've also found Phil Woods Oil to be
about the cheapest in LBSs.

One trick, is to keep your drivetrain as clean as possible, regardless
of lube used. This is why I prefer silver coloured chains, as the
buildup of gunk is easily noticed, and I know to wipe it down. with an
old rag or paper towel. Once done, I put one small drop of oil on
each bushing of the chain, on the inside of the chain where it runs
from the pulley wheels back to the chain-rings. Once oiling the
whole chain is completed, I work it into the chain by running my
fingers along the chain while spinning the cranks backwards. Once
I've worked the oil into the chains' bushings, I wipe off the excess
with a rag/paper towel.

When finished, you should find a thin film of oil on your finger tips
after running them over the oiled surface of the chain.

This is how I was taught to do it in bike shops as an employee, and
it's worked for me for years, keeping my baby running smoothly.

Hope this helps

I actually use Phil Oil most of the time. But honestly, a thinner, less
sticky
oil would be better. No matter how sparing I am with the Phil, gooey
strings
come off the cogs and derailer pulleys and fall all over everything,
including
my rim. Even with lots of wiping, this doesn't go away until I ride for a
couple of hours.

Phil Oil is indispensible for some other bike things, like Judy forks and
Shimano freehubs, but for chains it's a little goopy. Thinner oil, even
motor
oil, would be better for chains. But I happen to have the Phil handy, in
a
convenient drip bottle, so that's what I use.

IOW, what I really think is: it doesn't really matter that much.

I've found it good practice to wipe the chain both before and after
riding.
After goes without saying -- to remove any grit that's collected during
the
ride. But wiping before removes oil that's seeped out of the chain since
the
last ride, and helps keep new dirt from sticking. A couple of revolutions
through an old terry washcloth does the trick.

Matt O.