Chain Lubricant Options

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I've used paraffin (the wax kind not coal oil) since shortly after I
started riding as an adult, some 45 years ago. It's clean, and I've
never had any sort of chain trouble. As far as I can tell, my chains
last as long as anyone's.

Do you have a dedicated pot full of the stuff that you just drop the chain on
and heat? If so, what do you use as a heat source? I was doing it for
awhile, heating over a propane burner out in the back yard - far away from
anything flammable...but quit once it dawned on me that eventually I'd walk away
from it and forget it was on...

Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for
a while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

Quoted message said:

What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally cleans
the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent and
sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine grit came
out of the apparently clean chain.

I use acetone it works really well inside and out. takes 3 or 4 times to get all
of it.
I had been wanting to test the reoiling part too.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Tim McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

Recently an experiment was made to determine whether cleaning a
chain before re-oiling improves durability and the results posted
here in this newsgroup. The chain was marked and split in two for
cleaning only one half, before reassembling and lubricating. Each
time the elongation (pitch wear) was measured. The cleaned portion
showed more wear than the one that was only re-oiled. I have no
way of verifying the measurements but there is no reason to doubt
the results. However, I reviewed the process.

Quoted message said:

I remember that post, and I remember being surprised by the results
since they were counter to the canonical recommendations.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally
cleans the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean
solvent and sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial
fine grit came out of the apparently clean chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also tried this by agitating the chain under water with liquid
detergent and achieved the same result. My conclusion is that
unless the chain is thoroughly cleaned internally, cosmetically
cleaning with solvent does no good and probably is worse than not
cleaning.

Quoted message said:

Interesting. Many of us use the two chain method of alternating
chains, swapping a cleaned on for the dirty one to be cleaned, and
so forth. Soaking and agitating the chain in solvent isn't enough,
obviously, and a second cleaning in fresh solvent shows this to be
the case. Is it even possible to clean out a chain adequately by
agitating it in solvent? How does one clean the chain thoroughly
internally without spending an inordinate amount of time?

That depends on the chain and its cost. The SRAM 8-speed chains I use
now and buy in large quantities are probably not worth the effort both
because they are inexpensive and because they don't last long. In
contrast the Regina CX-S chains had about 5-6 time the life and were
worth cleaning. I still have one or two of these and am considering
just saving them for putting them on some antique bicycle, just as we
should have done with the last Diamond brand block chains.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Therefore, testimonials that praise one or another lubricant may
not have anything to do with chain wear since that has more to do
with cleaning or leaving caked grit where it is. Thin, solvent
like lubricants may be the worst offenders by that test.

Quoted message said:

We've been cautioning against "washing in" crud into the links with
lubes for years (and cleaning chains in solvent to prevent this).
Since that post was published, I've taken to just wiping down the
chain as throughly as I can before relubing, and thus far have not
seen my chains wearing out any faster than with the solvent method.
I don't track the mileage closely, though. I've been using ProLink
with good results, regardless of the accuracy of their claims,
although not obviously better results than motor oil which is at
least 20X cheaper.

I usually don't do anything to my chains over the summer, here where
it rarely rains in that time, however, when touring in the Alps, rain
is common and that is where I became aware of the cleansing of water.
If the chain squeaks when dried after a longer run in rain, it is not
only devoid of lubricant but also of most grit. When that occurs, I
use motor oil from a discarded oil container found in the trash at a
gas station, pouring it carefully on the bottom run of the chain as I
turn the pedals backwards.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Matt O'Toole said:

How clean are you able to get your chain, and by what method?

Clean enough that I cannot elicit any more "grey matter" from the
chain. I believe the chain is about as clean as it can get in the
realm of visible and effective grit. If you take a "modern" chain
apart, all elements fall apart so that you can rub a clean cloth over
their surfaces. You could try that with a white paper towel and see
if you can get any dirt. I doubt that there will be any after a
cleaning with hot water and liquid detergent.

I should add that I first scrub the chain, coiled flat on its side,
with a stiff brush to remove external dirt.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:24:42 GMT,
[email hidden] wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I
use motor oil from a discarded oil container found in the trash at a
gas station, pouring it carefully on the bottom run of the chain as I
turn the pedals backwards.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Dear Gene,

I see that--

Oh. Sorry, Jobst, I mistook you for someone else.

Never mind.

Carl Fogel

Bob Wheeler said:

Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for a
while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.

Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
on low flame.

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
and repeat.

When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
of miles.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:40:28 -0400, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for
a while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.

IMHO, a double boiler doesn't get the chain hot enough to displace the
surface moisture, which is not soluble in the parrafin. The result is
that you get a chain with excess wax on sideplates and little wax into
the surface of the pin part of the link.

I use a small electric fry pan, that was some sort of fondue pot and
heat the wax to ~300 degrees, covered and outdoors. A find to do the
same thing is one of "Fry Babies". Garage sales and flea markets are
excellent sources.

Living in SoCal, it rains infrequently and chains and cassettes last
thousands of miles.

Frank Krygowski said:

Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
on low flame.

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
and repeat.

When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
of miles.

Wouldn't it be easier to just use a removable link in the chain and
remove the chain before using the wax concoction? I'd think that
heating with a propane torch might change the temper of the metal of
the chain.

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What I found was that sloshing the chain in solvent externally
cleans the chain but on putting the "cleaned" chain in clean solvent
and sloshing it around while lying on its side, substantial fine
grit came out of the apparently clean chain.

I also tried this by agitating the chain under water with dishwater
detergent and achieved the same result. My conclusion is that
unless the chain is thoroughly cleaned internally, cosmetically
cleaning with solvent does no good and probably is worse than not
cleaning.

Interesting. Many of us use the two chain method of alternating
chains, swapping a cleaned on for the dirty one to be cleaned, and so
forth. Soaking and agitating the chain in solvent isn't enough,
obviously, and a second cleaning in fresh solvent shows this to be the
case. Is it even possible to clean out a chain adequately by
agitating it in solvent? How does one clean the chain thoroughly
internally without spending an inordinate amount of time?

I have always assumed that when people refer to cleaning a chain by
agitation in solvent, that they mean repeatedly, using fresh solvent
each time, until the solvent stops changing color. I would think it
would be pointless to stop short of this.

It doesn't take long. I used to shake it in a pie pan until I read here
about using a wide-mouth plastic bottle. This really lets you agitate it
a lot better. It consistently takes 4 iterations, and I do it a fifth
time just to make sure. Using about about a half litre of solvent each
time. But doing it 5 times only takes a few more minutes than doing
it once. I use paint thinner and don't bother letting it soak.

Whoever mentioned using the wide-mouth plastic bottle, thanks. You
also mentioned tying a string/floss to the chain to retrieve it. I
tried that but now I just let the funnel stop the chain when pouring
out the dirty solvent.

dkl

Paul Kopit said:

Wouldn't it be easier to just use a removable link in the chain and
remove the chain before using the wax concoction? I'd think that
heating with a propane torch might change the temper of the metal of
the chain.

Not if it's only hot enough to melt the wax.

Matt O.

Frank Krygowski said:

Bob Wheeler said:

Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with
the paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it
cook for a while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger.
I generally throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.

Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane
torch on low flame.

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain
again until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots;
backpedal 8" and repeat.

When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning,
protect the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many
hundreds of miles.

How much oil do you put in your wax? I don't think plain wax lubricates enough.
I've used waxy lubes from a bottle, and the only ones I like are the ones with
more oil in them -- Pedros Extra Dry, Finish Line Dry, Boeshield, etc. I don't
think White Lightening (plain wax) lubricates worth a damn. My firends use it
and their chains seem to last as long as mine, but the noise from their
drivetrains drives me nuts. Also, wax seems to make a mess of the drivetrain,
becoming caked all over everything.

Matt O.

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I've used paraffin (the wax kind not coal oil) since shortly after I
started riding as an adult, some 45 years ago. It's clean, and I've
never had any sort of chain trouble. As far as I can tell, my chains
last as long as anyone's.

Do you have a dedicated pot full of the stuff that you just drop the chain on
and heat? If so, what do you use as a heat source? I was doing it for
awhile, heating over a propane burner out in the back yard - far away from
anything flammable...but quit once it dawned on me that eventually I'd walk away
from it and forget it was on...

I've used the following chainwax method for the past ten years.

Obtain a Fry Daddy from the local thrift store or the basement. Since
the Dr put me on a low fat diet / cholestrol diet it wasn't too much
of a hardship. You'll also need a thermometer capable of 400 degrees,
a couple of blocks of wax from the grocery and a pint of motor oil
(any brand). Plug in the Fry Daddy with the wax and motor oil and heat
to 250-300 degrees. Then VERY CAREFULLY lower your chain into the
brew. You'll want to use a method that prevents it from tangling when
removed. I usually allow the chains to remain there 10 - 15 minutes to
assure full penetration of the mix in to the links. This also boils
out any water after that ride in the rain. It really cracks and pops
till the water is gone.

Using an old spoke with a hook bend pull the chain out of the wax/oil
allowing the excess to drip back into the Fry Daddy. When it stops
dripping the chain is then wiped down with a rag to remove excess
wax/oil. After cooling for a few minutes the chain is replaced on the
bike. I have also installed it immediately wearing a pair of gloves
when the road was calling.

Previously I had used only wax and as noted by another poster also
concluded that rain would easily wash out the wax. With the motor oil
I no longer have a problem with rain.

Charlie Myer

Back when I couldn't afford wonder lubes, I would mix my own using regular parifin wax with enough red lithium grease added to give it some "plasticity" like modeling clay. I would then dissolve this in hexane from the lab (we used gallons every week and I would recover it from the Rotavap as it was quite reusable but due to purity, we sent it to the recyler). This was a great lube because I didn't need to melt it. It did require two applications on a dry chain but it worked for at least 100 miles.

Now that the hexane supply is gone, I just buy original White Lightning as my time is money.

Terry Morse said...

Quoted message said:

Naptha's a pretty hazardous material to be using it as a solvent.
Vapors are harmful, and the flash point is 122F. There are safer
alternatives. Wear gloves, use in well ventilated areas only, and
keep the container closed.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Well, any organic solvent or fuel is going to share some basic hazards
like flammability and exposure to fumes. Naptha should be among the
least vapor harmful, but among the most flammable, partly because of its
fast evaporation rate. This is a very nice property to have when it
comes to its use for chains. You just need to use common sense and keep
it away from sources of ignition.

That sounds like a better idea. Wallmart sells a Presto Kitchen Kettle
for $15, which is cheap enough to devote to this.

Paul Kopit said:

On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:40:28 -0400, Bob Wheeler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for
a while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.

IMHO, a double boiler doesn't get the chain hot enough to displace the
surface moisture, which is not soluble in the parrafin. The result is
that you get a chain with excess wax on sideplates and little wax into
the surface of the pin part of the link.

I use a small electric fry pan, that was some sort of fondue pot and
heat the wax to ~300 degrees, covered and outdoors. A find to do the
same thing is one of "Fry Babies". Garage sales and flea markets are
excellent sources.

Living in SoCal, it rains infrequently and chains and cassettes last
thousands of miles.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

Weisse Luft said...

Quoted message said:

Naptha is a light C6-C10 mix of hydrocarbons, originally used by varnish
makers and painters, hence its common industry name of VM&P naptha. It
dries more rapidly than regular paint thinner but is almost equal to
low odor mineral spirits. It should not soften modern bike finishes
but could soften older alkyd based paints on classic bicycles. Low
odor paint thinner is a great substitute and is inexpensive. I use
regular paint thinner as it is cheap and safer than gasoline. It dries
fast enough but a chain needs a bit of forced heating to remove all
traces. I heat the chain with a 50W lightbulb and it dries in about 30
minutes.

Alcohols do not cut oil and grease as well as naptha and will not touch
most synthetics. Acetone will work but its dangerous. forget Coleman
stove fuel, its just white gasoline. Diesel is also out because it
evaporates at a snails pace and is quite smelly.

Agree that alcohol doesn't compare to naptha and I use naptha on just
about every part of my bike with no problem. I won't say that it could
never damage paint or decals, but it hasn't for me using it sparingly. I
found acetone to be utterly useless for dissolving chain gunk. Doesn't
put a dent in it. Acetone is also murder on plastics of most kinds in my
experience. Might be a real bad idea to get any on a carbon fiber part.

Frank Krygowski said...

Quoted message said:

Wow.

I assume you mean that sounds like a lot. It is probably more like 300
miles now that I think about it, but naptha really does make it easy. I
always take off the derailleur pulleys and clean and lube them too. If
it needs it, I will take a wire brush to the cassette to remove excess
gunk there.

SuperSlinky said:

Frank Krygowski said...

Quoted message said:

Wow.

I assume you mean that sounds like a lot. It is probably more like 300
miles now that I think about it, but naptha really does make it easy.
I always take off the derailleur pulleys and clean and lube them too.
If it needs it, I will take a wire brush to the cassette to remove
excess gunk there.

If my drivetrain hears what kind of care you take of your drivetrain, I'm
gonna' have a mutiny on my hands ;-)

SuperSlinky said:

Agree that alcohol doesn't compare to naptha and I use naptha on just
about every part of my bike with no problem. I won't say that it could
never damage paint or decals, but it hasn't for me using it
sparingly. I found acetone to be utterly useless for dissolving chain
gunk. Doesn't put a dent in it. Acetone is also murder on plastics of
most kinds in my experience. Might be a real bad idea to get any on a
carbon fiber part.

Watch the alcohol around rubber parts like seals, it can cause them to swell and
deform. Otherwise you're right, alcohol is one of the safest solvents you can
use, and a pretty effective one.

Matt O.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Frank Krygowski said:

Bob Wheeler said:

Put a pot of water on the kitchen stove. Put the chain in a can with the
paraffin and set it in the water and bring to a boil. Let it cook for a
while. Fish the chain out and hang it over a coat hanger. I generally
throw the can and paraffin away to avoid a mess.

Alternately, do it with the chain on the bike. Put the bike on a
workstand, and heat chain in it's lower free span, using a propane torch
on low flame.

More detail: Warm the 8" of chain; use a chunk of the solid wax/oil
mixture as a crayon, and crayon it onto the chain; warm the chain again
until the wax/oil melts and flows into the chain pivots; backpedal 8"
and repeat.

When done, wipe excess off with paper towels. Before beginning, protect
the floor with newspapers. Takes about 5 minutes, lasts many hundreds
of miles.

WOW! is right, Frank.

I cannot believe a man of your inteligence would do this.

The Youngstown Fire Department must love it.

HAND
Ride Safe!