Chain Lube

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:tf%wc.17382$Sw.8362@attbi_s51...

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ?

I'm in favour of it.

Quoted message said:

I use White Lighting

There's your problem right there.

Quoted message said:

and it turns black before
I even ride. (And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days.

As soon as they make metal that doesn't wear, we'll get the lube that stays
clean.

Quoted message said:

I don't want to use motor oil.

Well naturally, that's for motors. You are the motor.

Quoted message said:

Any other suggestions ?

Use bicycle chain oil or chainsaw oil. Wipe the outside of your chain clean
regularly. Don't look down at the chain, keep your eyes on the road.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black before
I even ride. (And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

I've been using Progold ProLink and Rock'n'Roll Extreme. Pretty clean,
lasts, minimal chain wear. ProLink is cleaner than R'n'R but doesn't
hold up in the rain as well as R'n'R.

Used Triflo for years with good results. Just wipe down the chain
after most rides.

Others here use all sorts of lubes and get good results. Sometimes I
think that other than people like me who buy magic snake oil, most of
it comes down to basic maintenance. I do complete cleanings every
2-400 miles no matter what lube- remove chain, flush out, etc.

In article <tf%wc.17382$Sw.8362@attbi_s51>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black before
I even ride. (And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

10w30 motor oil. Cheap, about $1/quart, and easy to get. Clean your chain.
Then put a drop on each link. Wait, then wipe off the excess. If you want
use mobil 1 synthetic, but it will cost you closer to $5/quart. I wonder
why you don't want to use motor oil? It is a better lubricant than most
other stuff that costs ridiculously more money.
--------------
Alex

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> may

have said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black before
I even ride. (And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

This has been discussed to death. Chain lube is essentially a
Religious Topic in this group.

These are my personal conclusions and experiences:

-- No oil-based lube will remain "clean".

-- No non-oil-based lube keeps the chain from getting noisy after a
wet ride, and most must be applied daly in order to do anything at
all. [1]

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise stripping the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life; following the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a Good Idea.

-- Paying more for expensive lubes does not appear to provide any
real benefit vs. motor oil or gear lube. (Gear lube, however, stinks
badly enough to cause your SO to banish your bike (or you *and* the
bike) to the outdoors while the perfidy of perpetrating such a stench
is contemplated, and its effects are savored.)

-- Mechanic's engine assembly lube, consisting of a half-and-half mix
of an oil thickener like STP and regular motor oil, seems to work well
as a chain lube for me, and it's dirt cheap by comparison to any
name-brand bike chain lube product.

-- You will probably get wildly varying opinions about all of the
above observations, many of them quite vehement.

-- Your mileage may vary. I recommend only that you go with what
works for you, as it has become obvious to me that the main purpose of
the chain lube rituals performed by many is to make them happy about
what they are doing for their chain. If you're getting good results
from using chicken skimmings mixed with powdered banana peel, far be
it from me to say that you must cease doing so.

[1] One observation about dry lube materials; for many years,
DuPont's engineers resolutely denied that powdered Teflon had any
value as a spot lube or a lube component in the vast majority of
applications, in particular having zero value as an additive to motor
oil. Several years ago, however, it is apparent that DuPont's
marketing people told those engineers to STFU and let the company grab
some of the retail money from products that they could be selling in
competition with the mechano-quackery producers like Slick50. I tend
to think, based on having talked to a few of those engineers before
the marketing folks got the upper hand, that the "it's worthless in
these applications" advice is the correct information. Reports from
users of chain lubes containing Teflon or other PTFE compounds seem to
leave plenty of room to conclude that the PTFE does nothing when
applied to a bike chain. Regardless of that, however, I still say
that you should go with what works for you; if that's something
containing Teflon, you are free to ignore the observation immediately
preceding.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 17:02:26 +0200, "Mark South"

may have said:

... Wipe the outside of your chain clean
regularly. Don't look down at the chain, keep your eyes on the road.

That last bit of advice may be the best of all, in my opinion.

(I will observe that SRAM specifically recommends motor oil for their
chains, and otherwise advises the same procedure that you do.)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

<< Any other suggestions ? >>

My favorite chain lube is PG2000 Metal Protectant, available from Branford
Bike:

http://branfordbike.com/bikecare/bcare5.html

This is a "dry" lube, so it doesn't pick up dirt, or make a mess if you touch
the chain. It holds up extremely well in the wet, and lasts for many hundreds
of miles before you need to reapply it. The aerosol spray penetrates the chain
quickly and effectively. A 12-oz. aerosol can goes a long way.
Because it bonds to the metal, is necessary clean the chain completely before
the initial application. Do this by shaking the chain in a discarded plastic
soda bottle half-filled with lacquer thinner, then air-drying it. Install the
chain, apply the lube, and allow it to dry for a few hours before riding.

Larry said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black
before I even ride. (And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned)
Can't anyone make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't
want to use motor oil. Any other suggestions ?

I use "Pedros Extra Dry" both on my roadbike and my MTB
My MTB chain is dry, clean and shining.
My roadbike chain is black, oily and yechy.

I treat both chains the same. Ie I clean them often ( several times a year).
Apply the lube spin the cranks, dry off the excess. Next day if there is
anything wet I dry it off again.
There is only one difference in how I maintain them.
The roadbikechain is Dura-Ace and I clean it with one of those baths and
brushes you clamp around it and pedal the cranks backwards, filled with
degreaser.
The MTB chain is SRAM and I open the Masterlink, put the chain in a
cokebottle, fill with the same degreaser and shake.

I have two theorys why the roadbike chain is always black. Possibly a
combination of them
1. It doesn't get clean enough since I clean it on the bike and the wax
doesn't get a chance to penetrate all the way down to the metal. Instead it
mixes out with what's left of the degreaser and stays forever wet.
2. Rubber dust from car tires and motor oil on the road splatters all over
my clean chain and just gunks it up faster than I can clean it.

Any thoughts.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

I have two theorys why the roadbike chain is always black. Possibly a
combination of them

Quoted message said:

1. It doesn't get clean enough since I clean it on the bike and the
wax doesn't get a chance to penetrate all the way down to the metal.
Instead it mixes out with what's left of the degreaser and stays
forever wet.

Could be...

Quoted message said:

2. Rubber dust from car tires and motor oil on the road splatters all
over my clean chain and just gunks it up faster than I can clean it.

Most likely, your road bike chain doesn't pick up as much dirt, and doesn't get
cleaned as often. Therefore, more of what's on it is powdered metal from wear,
which is black. Your MTB chain probably has a higher proportion of trail dirt.

Matt O.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black before
I even ride. (And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

I'm guessing that if your White Lightning turns black before you even
ride you're not getting the chain really clean..

I use White Lightning on my touring and mountain bikes and I've never
experienced this.

On my "good bikes" I still hot wax. There's an article on chain waxing
I posted in 1996 at: http://tinyurl.com/2brcn

There are some things in the article I would now change, but basically
it's still accurate. I've stopped re-pushing pins in Hyperglide chains
after suffering a failure, and I I now use Forster (nee Craig) Super
Links to connect my chains.

Note, hot waxing isn't for everyone. You have to be a bit anal to
enjoy this ritual. ;-)

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

---snip---

Quoted message said:

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise stripping the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life; following the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a Good Idea.

---big snip---

What do you do to clean the grime between the plates if you don't use a
solvent?

--Art

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black before
I even ride.

But what does your chain sound like? I only service my chain when the
jockey wheels start to sound like a mad hornet.

Quoted message said:

(And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use motor oil.
Any other suggestions ?

Spray lubricant with a straw blows grease and grit out of the chain
rollers and off the chain rings. After spraying and wiping everything
down I'm good for about 300 miles. Even using cheap 79 cent Walmart
spray lube with a rag removes grease and washes grit out of the
rollers.

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black
before I even ride.

But what does your chain sound like? I only service my chain when the
jockey wheels start to sound like a mad hornet.

Quoted message said:

(And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use
motor oil. Any other suggestions ?

Spray lubricant with a straw blows grease and grit out of the chain
rollers and off the chain rings. After spraying and wiping everything
down I'm good for about 300 miles. Even using cheap 79 cent Walmart
spray lube with a rag removes grease and washes grit out of the
rollers.

Actually, it's more likely to wash grit from the outside of the chain *into* the
pins and rollers.

Wiping the chain after riding can help keep dirt from building up, but once it's
in the rollers it has to be flushed out somehow. This probably requires
removing the chain from the bike and soaking/agitating it in a solvent bath.

BTW, steam cleaning may be a good way to go. I've had good luck with high
pressure water from a garden hose or pressure washer, after soaking the chain in
solvent. But a little spray solvent/lube from a can won't do it.

Just because it's quiet and shifting smoothly doesn't mean it isn't grinding
itself and your cogs to pieces.

Matt O.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:07:59 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Any comments on chain lube ? I use White Lighting and it turns black
before I even ride.

But what does your chain sound like? I only service my chain when the
jockey wheels start to sound like a mad hornet.

Quoted message said:

(And Yes the chain is removed and steam cleaned) Can't anyone
make a lube that stays clean for a few days. I don't want to use
motor oil. Any other suggestions ?

Spray lubricant with a straw blows grease and grit out of the chain
rollers and off the chain rings. After spraying and wiping everything
down I'm good for about 300 miles. Even using cheap 79 cent Walmart
spray lube with a rag removes grease and washes grit out of the
rollers.

Actually, it's more likely to wash grit from the outside of the chain *into* the
pins and rollers.

Wiping the chain after riding can help keep dirt from building up, but once it's
in the rollers it has to be flushed out somehow. This probably requires
removing the chain from the bike and soaking/agitating it in a solvent bath.

BTW, steam cleaning may be a good way to go. I've had good luck with high
pressure water from a garden hose or pressure washer, after soaking the chain in
solvent. But a little spray solvent/lube from a can won't do it.

Just because it's quiet and shifting smoothly doesn't mean it isn't grinding
itself and your cogs to pieces.

Matt O.

I always thought quiet meant clean. Chain mileage would have to be
the ultimate test then. There should be a chart somewhere of
different cleaning methods people use and the mileages they get before
the chain wears a 16th of an inch. Problem is there are too many
variables such as rider weight and riding environment. A large bike
club might be able to gather enough data to see a trend. If you can
get 2000 miles of quiet smooth shifting out of a chain by just
spraying it out and wiping it down you really have nothing to complain
about though.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"

may have said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

---snip---

Quoted message said:

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise stripping the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life; following the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a Good Idea.

---big snip---

What do you do to clean the grime between the plates if you don't use a
solvent?

If you follow their recommendations, you *don't* clean between the
plates. Apparently, removing their lube does more harm than would be
caused by the limited amount of crud that can get in if the lube is
still present.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 17:35:39 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"

may have said:

I have two theorys why the roadbike chain is always black. Possibly a
combination of them
1. It doesn't get clean enough since I clean it on the bike and the wax
doesn't get a chance to penetrate all the way down to the metal. Instead it
mixes out with what's left of the degreaser and stays forever wet.

Likely, in my opinion.

Quoted message said:

2. Rubber dust from car tires and motor oil on the road splatters all over
my clean chain and just gunks it up faster than I can clean it.

Unlikely in my opinion; if there was enough oil on the road to
contaminate your chain, it would show up on the downtube, tires, and
your back first...and tire dust is neither going to stick without an
agent to cause it to adhere, nor common enough to account for the
crud.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"

may have said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

---snip---

Quoted message said:

-- Solvent-cleaning, steam-cleaning or otherwise stripping the
factory lube from an SRAM chain shortens its life; following the
manufacturer's recommendation for oiling and wiping is a Good Idea.

---big snip---

What do you do to clean the grime between the plates if you don't use a
solvent?

If you follow their recommendations, you *don't* clean between the
plates. Apparently, removing their lube does more harm than would be
caused by the limited amount of crud that can get in if the lube is
still present.

The part I find strange about all these chain maintenance threads is that the
simplest advice given is to wipe the chain with a rag, dribble a little oil on
it, wipe off the excess, and repeat as necessary. Then when the chain shows
wear, replace it.

This advice is simple to follow, cheap, and meshes with the manufacturer's
recommendations. There is no evidence that chain life is worse than if one
cleans the chain every 15 miles and uses some magical chain lube that costs 25$
an ounce. (I'm tempted to suggest it might be better, since once the
manufacturer's lube is gone or contaminated there is practically no way to
replace it.)

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive ways
to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed
into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

Mark South said:

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive ways
to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed
into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

I'll be drifting way off topic here, but CFCs have not been used as aerosol
propellent for quite some time. They were already on the way out back in 1987
when the Montreal Protocol was signed.

Mark South said:

...
But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive ways
to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed
into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as the day they came
out of the box :-)

Francesco

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

...
But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as the day they came
out of the box :-)

So build a bike that's not for riding.

As a bonus, the tyres will stay clean, the bar tape will be pristine, and the
pedals won't get any scratches from the cleats.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen, Bike User