Chain Lube

Mark South said:

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

...
But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as the day they came
out of the box :-)

So build a bike that's not for riding.

As a bonus, the tyres will stay clean, the bar tape will be pristine, and the
pedals won't get any scratches from the cleats.

as always, "in medio stat virtus". There are many choices between a
clean-as-never-ridden bike and a black dirty chain that turns to black
everything it touches (after a winter without "serious cleaning" my
chain tends to become like that)

"Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"

may have said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

snip

Quoted message said:

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive ways
to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being flushed
into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

It's like religion... some people need to put their faith in something
that can't be prooved...

Either that or the lube vendors have been able to convince enough
people to live in fear ... I'm waiting for "If you don't use
miraculube Al_quaida wins!"

"Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
The part I find strange about all these chain maintenance threads is that

the

Quoted message said:

simplest advice given is to wipe the chain with a rag, dribble a little

oil on

Quoted message said:

it, wipe off the excess, and repeat as necessary. Then when the chain

shows

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wear, replace it.

This advice is simple to follow, cheap, and meshes with the manufacturer's
recommendations. There is no evidence that chain life is worse than if

one

Quoted message said:

cleans the chain every 15 miles and uses some magical chain lube that

costs 25$

Quoted message said:

an ounce. (I'm tempted to suggest it might be better, since once the
manufacturer's lube is gone or contaminated there is practically no way to
replace it.)

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the excess manufacturer's
lube and then rides the chain until it's worn. They seem to last long
enough that way. And chains are pretty cheap. About once a year, I buy
a dozen Dura-ace on sale at Performance for about $13 each
($19 - 20% coupon - 10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it seems
like a better deal that mucking around with nasty solvents &etc.

- Jens

Quoted message said:

If you can get 2000 miles of quiet smooth shifting out of a chain by just
spraying it out and wiping it down you really have nothing to complain
about though.

If I were only getting 2000 miles of riding out of a chain I'd be
complaining bitterly! :-(

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

Jens Kurt Heycke said:

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the excess
manufacturer's lube and then rides the chain until it's worn. They
seem to last long enough that way. And chains are pretty cheap.
About once a year, I buy
a dozen Dura-ace on sale at Performance for about $13 each
($19 - 20% coupon - 10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it seems
like a better deal that mucking around with nasty solvents &etc.

How utterly wasteful. Even my mountain bike chains last well over a year.

Bill "regimen is a rag and White Lightning" S.

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

"Francesco Devittori" <frenkatfrenkdtcm> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Because people (me too) want shining chains, clean as the day they came
out of the box :-)

So build a bike that's not for riding.

As a bonus, the tyres will stay clean, the bar tape will be pristine, and

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pedals won't get any scratches from the cleats.

as always, "in medio stat virtus". There are many choices between a
clean-as-never-ridden bike and a black dirty chain that turns to black
everything it touches (after a winter without "serious cleaning" my
chain tends to become like that).

I disagree. Virtue may stand in the middle, but facts are often on one side or
the other.

Either you use the bike or not. If you use it the chain will wear and produce
dirty black metallic particles. Unavoidable. To keep it clean you will have to
spend a lot of time (that could be spent riding) and money (that could buy
regular new chains).

So the question stands, why?
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

"ajames54" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mark South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 22:43:02 GMT, "Art M"
<[email hidden]> may have said:

>"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...

snip

Quoted message said:

But nearly everyone wants to hear about messy, labour-intensive, expensive

ways

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to maintain their chain, that seemingly involve lots more solvents being

flushed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

into the water system and more CFCs in the atmosphere.

Why????

It's like religion... some people need to put their faith in something
that can't be prooved...

On alt.religion.bikechains.cleaning, that's a good answer. On rec.bikes.TECH,
it suffices not.

Quoted message said:

Either that or the lube vendors have been able to convince enough
people to live in fear ... I'm waiting for "If you don't use
miraculube Al_quaida wins!"

Well if they win, we'll need to live with belt drive because there won't be any
petroleum based lubricants of any kind for us.

So how best to keep my belt drive clean?
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wonder if I'm the only one who simply wipes off the excess manufacturer's
lube and then rides the chain until it's worn. They seem to last long
enough that way. And chains are pretty cheap. About once a year, I buy
a dozen Dura-ace on sale at Performance for about $13 each
($19 - 20% coupon - 10% TP bonus) Even at one chain a month, it seems
like a better deal that mucking around with nasty solvents &etc.

No, you're not alone, except that it seems to me that the $5 SRAM chains are
about as good as anything else. But the rest of your logic seems ironclad to
me.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

John Everett said:

Quoted message said:

If you can get 2000 miles of quiet smooth shifting out of a chain by just
spraying it out and wiping it down you really have nothing to complain
about though.

If I were only getting 2000 miles of riding out of a chain I'd be
complaining bitterly! :-(

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

I replaced a good KMC chain with an econo chain at 2000 miles. After
comparing the length of the two chains I saw that the KMC chain had
only stretched about a 32nd of an inch. Be nice if I could get three
chains worth of wear out of the freewheel. Rotating three chains at
2000 mile intervals should minimise cog wear and at 6000 miles putting
the old KMC chain back on will not accelerate wear that much. I will
need new chain rings in a year or two anyways.

If you want a clean chain, you must clean it often. I use a quick link
to make things easier. the chain gets a dunking in low odor paint
thinner which is recycled by decanting the sediment away. If I feel the
need for a cleaner chain, I will run it through an ultrasonic bath in a
Rubbermaid-type container. It only takes a few minutes and the innards
of the chain are spotless. I have cleaned a chain in just thinner, then
hit it with a sonicator, getting even more dirt off of it than with
thinner alone.

I lube the chain OFF the bike with WL. Never do I have the dreaded
buildup on jockey wheels or chainrings. And never do I have chain dirt
issues because WL wipes off...

--

"Weisse Luft" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you want a clean chain, you must clean it often. I use a quick link
to make things easier. the chain gets a dunking in low odor paint
thinner which is recycled by decanting the sediment away. If I feel the
need for a cleaner chain, I will run it through an ultrasonic bath in a
Rubbermaid-type container. It only takes a few minutes and the innards
of the chain are spotless. I have cleaned a chain in just thinner, then
hit it with a sonicator, getting even more dirt off of it than with
thinner alone.

I'm exhausted just reading this.

If you do this for your chain, how much time do you spend on your brakes? After
all, your life depnds on those at times, right?

Quoted message said:

I lube the chain OFF the bike with WL. Never do I have the dreaded
buildup on jockey wheels or chainrings. And never do I have chain dirt
issues because WL wipes off...

You haven't said how you can be sure that you've got lubrication right inside
the chain rollers.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Everett said:

Quoted message said:

If you can get 2000 miles of quiet smooth shifting out of a chain by

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spraying it out and wiping it down you really have nothing to complain
about though.

If I were only getting 2000 miles of riding out of a chain I'd be
complaining bitterly! :-(

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

I replaced a good KMC chain with an econo chain at 2000 miles. After
comparing the length of the two chains I saw that the KMC chain had
only stretched about a 32nd of an inch. Be nice if I could get three
chains worth of wear out of the freewheel. Rotating three chains at
2000 mile intervals should minimise cog wear and at 6000 miles putting
the old KMC chain back on will not accelerate wear that much. I will
need new chain rings in a year or two anyways.

I bought a KMC "stretchproof" Z chain last year. (I looked at the guy in my
LBS incredulously as he recited the marketing ploy, but figured I would
support them with my $20) After 5000 road miles it has stretched less than a
32nd of an inch. Is anyone else getting similar results? I often go more
than 2 weeks (4 rides/wk) without oiling. I've taken it off once to soak in
solvent and then in multipurpose 3-in-one oil.

--Art

Art M. said:

I bought a KMC "stretchproof" Z chain last year. (I looked at the guy in
my LBS incredulously as he recited the marketing ploy, but figured I
would support them with my $20) After 5000 road miles it has stretched
less than a 32nd of an inch. Is anyone else getting similar results? I
often go more than 2 weeks (4 rides/wk) without oiling. I've taken it off
once to soak in solvent and then in multipurpose 3-in-one oil.

Does it have full bushings?

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Weisse Luft said:

If you want a clean chain, you must clean it often. I use a quick link
to make things easier. the chain gets a dunking in low odor paint
thinner which is recycled by decanting the sediment away. If I feel
the need for a cleaner chain, I will run it through an ultrasonic
bath in a Rubbermaid-type container. It only takes a few minutes and
the innards of the chain are spotless.

Quoted message said:

I have cleaned a chain in just
thinner, then hit it with a sonicator, getting even more dirt off of
it than with thinner alone.

Ultrasonic cleaning is definately the way to go for chains. Do you have a unit
that can be dropped into any container? That would sure be handy.

The tiny units for jewelry, dentures, etc., are very inexpensive, but too small
for a chain, and the next size up costs hundreds of dollars. I had a small
industrial one that would normally sell for several hundred dollars, that I got
at a garage sale for $25. It worked like a charm for several years, but I got
rid of it when I moved. Shoulda kept it...

I don't understand why I don't see more of these in bike shops. They're so much
faster and more effective than the usual parts washers -- they'd speed up the
workflow considerably.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Weisse Luft wrote:
... The tiny units for jewelry, dentures, etc., are very inexpensive,
but too small for a chain, and the next size up costs hundreds of
dollars. I had a small industrial one that would normally sell for
several hundred dollars, that I got at a garage sale for $25. It worked
like a charm for several years, but I got rid of it when I moved.
Shoulda kept it...
I don't understand why I don't see more of these in bike shops. They're
so much faster and more effective than the usual parts washers -- they'd
speed up the workflow considerably.
Matt O.

I put the chain in the Rubbermaid container along with some clean
solvent and take it to work...the sonicator is a Bransonic that is
always filled with clean water. Parts are cleaned the same way...parts
are in a plastic container with solvent which is then floated on the
surface of the water. 5 minutes is more than enough.

Why shops don't use them? Because the pro mechanics don't.

--

If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing that chain
unless you put a high strength replacement pin in to replace the one you
removed. Existing pins have a peaned end and removing and replacing will
weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to break the chain. I speak
from experience. By using a thinner or petrol solvent bath, you are washing
away all the existing internal lubricant from the chain rollers and can
cause rust to start and thusly also weakening the chain..

Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line chain cleaner
gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well without completely stripping the
chain. You don't need to be cleaning it that much!!! Then generously
recoat the chain with chain lube, wipe excess off, clean and oil the jockey
wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

Chris
2200 Trek

Chris H said:

If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing that
chain unless you put a high strength replacement pin in to replace
the one you removed. Existing pins have a peaned end and removing
and replacing will weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to
break the chain. I speak from experience. By using a thinner or
petrol solvent bath, you are washing away all the existing internal
lubricant from the chain rollers and can cause rust to start and
thusly also weakening the chain..

Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line chain
cleaner gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well without completely
stripping the chain. You don't need to be cleaning it that much!!!
Then generously recoat the chain with chain lube, wipe excess off,
clean and oil the jockey wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take
more than 10 minutes.

Chris
2200 Trek

Or spend under five bucks and get a SRAM powerlink (or similar product from
another manufacturer) and remove the chain as often as your obsessive
compulsive tendencies compel you to do so. Or just don't clean it, keep it
lubed, and replace it when the time comes.

Tom

Chris H said:

If you're riding a 9 speed rear end, I WOULD NOT be removing that chain
unless you put a high strength replacement pin in to replace the one you
removed. Existing pins have a peaned end and removing and replacing will
weaken the end of the pin and may cause you to break the chain. I speak
from experience. By using a thinner or petrol solvent bath, you are
washing away all the existing internal lubricant from the chain rollers
and can cause rust to start and thusly also weakening the chain..
Just go to Academy Sports or Nashbar and get a Finish Line chain cleaner
gizmo ($20). Their bio cleaner works well without completely stripping
the chain. You don't need to be cleaning it that much!!! Then generously
recoat the chain with chain lube, wipe excess off, clean and oil the
jockey wheels and you're done!! Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.
Chris 2200 Trek

The replacement pin is no higher strength, it has larger diameters on
the ends to keep it secured to the side plates. Original pine are
rivited in, driving them out swages the holes larger.

If you followed my thread, you would see I use a quick link...I think
its a Wipperman but there are many others out there.

One thing I didn't post is I use a drop of thread locker on the
connection to assure it stays in place. Its removed easily but offers a
bit more security.

--

John Everett said:

Note, hot waxing isn't for everyone. You have to be a bit anal to
enjoy this ritual. ;-)

My hot waxing is done with the chain still on the bike. Low flame
propane torch, a "crayon" of wax/oil blend (about 5% oil), and a chunk
of sheet metal to protect the bike from the torch.

Work 10" of chain at a time. Warm it, crayon the wax on, re-warm until
the wax flows in. Backpedal and repeat until the chain's all done.
Wipe off excess wax. It takes about ten minutes, maybe less.

I don't clean the chain except by wiping it off occasionally. The
wax/oil blend doesn't pick up enough dirt to matter. My chains last a
few thousand miles and stay clean. The worst problem I have is my steel
cogs eventually get rusty on the sides, since there's no oil film on them.

Disclaimer: I usually run fenders, so I suppose less road grit gets
thrown onto the chain.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Werehatrack said:

-- No non-oil-based lube keeps the chain from getting noisy after a
wet ride, and most must be applied daly in order to do anything at
all.

Paraffin wax with about 5% oil dissolved in it will NOT squeak after a
wet ride. It stays clean, and needs replacement only after several
hundred miles.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]