Carbon frame or better components?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

What kind of racing are you doing? If criterium racing with a lot of
crashes, aluminum might be more durable.

As a general rule, I go for the better frame over components.
Components can easily be changed over time as they wear or you feel
like it, but less likely the frame itself.

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

Now, I spent the last few years on a Cannondale CAAD7 frame and have no
complaints about aluminum and have not ridden carbon. I'm trying to
figure out if it is worth it to have the better components or the
carbon frame.

Go with a really nice frame and Centaur?

Ron

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

Ride each and see what *you* think. The most important thing a bike can have
isn't a brand label, or a particular tubeset. The most important thing is
that there's something about it that makes you want to get out and ride,
every chance you get. Although I'm highly partial (ok, biased!) towards Trek
OCLV carbon fiber, we have a piece on our website that will help you
evaluate whatever bike you ride-

www.ChainReaction.com/roadbiketestrides.htm

It's one of the few pieces I've written that is entirely brand & material
neutral, and has been helpful to many.

Regarding nicer frame vs components, I'd always recommend the nicer frame,
unless the components are of a very low level. Ultegra components work very
nicely, nothing to apologize for there. Same with Centaur. Below those
groups you might find yourself quickly wishing you'd spent a bit more,
maybe. Or not. But the frame is going to be with you for a very long time,
and the combination of materials choice (and how it's used) and fit is
something that will be a much bigger factor in ride enjoyment than whether
you have a DuraAce or Ultegra shift lever.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

Now, I spent the last few years on a Cannondale CAAD7 frame and have no
complaints about aluminum and have not ridden carbon. I'm trying to
figure out if it is worth it to have the better components or the
carbon frame.

Thanks for the info everyone.

I guess I knew the answer to the question: "ride it and you decide",
but it never hurts to ask.

As far as usage goes it will be used regularly in criteriums as well as
road races and some time trials. The point about carbon durability is
interesting. Fortunately I've never crashed in a crit (or anything
else for that matter), but it is just a matter of time. It seems a
carbon frame could be compromised in a crash more easily than
aluminium.

On a somewhat related topic, I was looking at the Scott CR1. Does
anyone know where their frames are manufactured and what the warranty
is?

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

Now, I spent the last few years on a Cannondale CAAD7 frame and have no
complaints about aluminum and have not ridden carbon. I'm trying to
figure out if it is worth it to have the better components or the
carbon frame.

A Chorus Kestrel Talon is only a touch past $3K
Maybe a Chorus/Centaur mix on a Talon or a Bianchi Carbon XL?
Even a full Centaur bike at under 3K with either of those
frames will outlast an Ultegra ensemble.

ps-handbuilt wheels will save $$ and add durability if well
designed and built.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.
Now, I spent the last few years on a Cannondale CAAD7 frame and have no
complaints about aluminum and have not ridden carbon. I'm trying to
figure out if it is worth it to have the better components or the
carbon frame.

Assuming the frame fits you well, I would go with the better components.
Cannondale is a good company that has been around a long time, so you can
be fairly certain that they will be around in case your frame goes bad.
--------------
Alex

dwelzel writes-<< I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking
to spend

Quoted message said:

around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace. >><BR><BR>

Fit is most important. BUT the frameset is the heart of the bicycle and should
have the biggest part of the $ spent on it. Components are minor in comparison,
wear out, are replaced regularly. The frame first, the fork, the wheels, the
saddle and the brakes are important. Shifters and ders are minor as are things
like headsets, BBs.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

1. Get what fits, especially if you have disproportionately long
legs/torso.

2. The weight difference between aluminum, carbon, steel, titanium
isn't interesting. Unpainted titanium frames don't have paint
to scratch and look good after you've ridden them for a decade.

3. The functional differences between component lines (Chorus/Record,
Ultegra/Dura ace) are often negligble, with the measureable difference
being weight which is often just a few grams. You can pick and choose
where there are differences. I had my frame built mostly with
Athena/Racing-T, but substituted Chorus brifters (ball bearings not in the
Athena parts, only different from Record in lever aesthetics)
and hubs (grease ports and a bit different internally from
Athena, shipped with different skewers than Record and
the standard Record steel pawl carrier vs. Titanium for Record Ti).

Beyond that it's guy jewelry. When my chain rings wore out and
I wanted to change gearing to a compact I bought a carbon fiber
crankset. They don't make me any faster but they do look pretty
and loosing 10 ounces in crank/bottom bracket gives a similar
satisfaction. They get used almost daily. Total cost difference was
about $100 over aluminum cranks and a heavier bottom bracket, far less
than a woman would spend on an outfit that'll be out-dated soon or baubles
she'll seldomly wear.

Aesthetics or bragging brights will probably get you some
pleasure; just be honest that's the reason.

4. The same thing often applies to framesets within a line. Tapered
titanium tubes look nicer but straight tubes still build into
a function 3.5 pound frame.

5. In your price range you can have a frameset built to suit your tastes - fit,
ergo or STI, gearing, saddle, handlebar shape, wheels (a lot of us like
hand built 32 spoke wheels), even grip tape.

You just don't get a big company's discount on "better" components.

After 9-10 years I'm really glad I did this.

6. The chain, cogs, chain rings, and bearings (the whole bottom bracket
when it's disposables) wear out. Shift levers and rims (never had
one survive until it wore out) get crashed.

Replacements happen when better options become available/common (compact
cranks, a couple more cogs) and choice in "old" technology becomes
limited (I switched to 9 speed when I couldn't buy a 13-21 8 speed cogset
that didn't come from a small botique vendor.)

You can have the frame for a _long_ time. Replacing it will not
be inexpensive. Get something you like. I should have spent somewhat
more and gotten tapered titanium for the aesthetics.

HTH.
--
<a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a>
9/11 was a premptive attack

If you race criteriums and plan to be competitive in them (meaning you
are ready to rub elbows on the final lap), it is a virtual certainty
that you will have a hard crash in the next few seasons. Of course, if
you're a chicken like me, and sit up when things get too hairy, this is
less of an issue.

If you are committed to having only one road bike and racing
competitively in crits, I think aluminum is a bad choice. The current
crop of high end alu frames will not survive a serious crash. I can't
tell you how many CAAD7s I've seen destroyed in races since they came
out in 2003. Some members of our club's elite team have wrecked 3 in
a single season, something that was unheard of with prior models (and
Cannondale's been our frame supplier since the CAAD3s came out).

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There

are

Quoted message said:

some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is

a

Quoted message said:

nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

Now, I spent the last few years on a Cannondale CAAD7 frame and have

no

Quoted message said:

complaints about aluminum and have not ridden carbon. I'm trying to
figure out if it is worth it to have the better components or the
carbon frame.

Over the past 10 years I've ridden numerous steel bikes (one a custom
Gilmour, two Lemonds, and one Simonetti), two ti bikes (one Litespeed,
one Diamondback), two carbon (a Specialized Epic and a Cervelo r2.5),
and three aluminum (one a an original Giant TCR, one a custom Dean, and
my current ride, a Specialized Sworks E5). Oh, yeah, and two different
Cannondale track bikes, 3 Surly Steamrollers, a Waterford 'cross bike,
Cinelli track bike, GT track bike, Fuji track bike.

Until I got the Specialized last week, I'd say that the custom Dean was
the best all-around 'racing' bike of all that I'd tried, although I
didn't like training on it. Hard to quantify why. The SWorks has the
exact same geometry of the Dean I had, so the handling is spot on and
the stiffness is perhaps even a touch better.

The Cervelo was a great ride around on bike, but wasn't stiff enough
(the front end flexed a bit too much) for me to race comfortably.

My conclusion: money spent on a really nice (read: expensive) frame is
not money well spent. If I had to pick my all time favorite frames out
of all I've ridden, I didn't spend more than $600 for frame/fork for
any of them. My least favorite frames (Cervelo, Litespeed, Cinelli)
were the most expensive.

My recommendation: ride enough bikes to decide what you like/dislike,
what sort of steering characteristics you like, etc... and then find a
good off-the-shelf frame with the appropriate geometry. If you prefer
steel, buy steel. If you like aluminum, buy aluminum. If you want to
try carbon or ti and don't spending waaay more money than necessary,
buy carbon or ti. Everything (that's right, everything) else is
insignificant compared to a proper fitting frame.

S.

(C) said:

What kind of racing are you doing? If criterium racing with a lot of
crashes, aluminum might be more durable.

I disagree. I ride CAAD7s. The aluminum maintubes dents easily in a
crash. All it takes if for the handlebars to swing around and hit the
frame.

I prefer Aluminum to CF because I like the sound or feel of the
bicycle and couldn't really tell the difference in ride quality. I
had a Trek OCLV. If stell is ringing a bell, aluminum is an oboe and
CF is like thumping the bass. The actual road feel is in the tire and
air inflation you choose.

If you care about weight, you can get less expensive, lightweight,
aluminum frames than CF.

When it's time to sell your bicycle, the Cannondale will not bring
high resale value.

I'm going to have to disagree with Peter in part. First, I agree that
FIT is the most important factor, or at least should be, in choosing a
frame or bike. However, I think choosing shifters is a part of fitting
and can be a major factor. That is what kind of shifters do you prefer
- Ergo, STI, dt, bar-end, or none. Shifters shouldn't "wear out and be
replaced regularly". Of course, with Shimano STI levers, those can
wear out and if so, will need replacing. I also agree that most
everything else is minor.

Regarding your question about the Scott CF-1, Scott are made by a company
called Hodaka in Tainan, Taiwan. They're probably the premier bicycle
factory in the world. And yes, I'm including the famous European marques in
that statement.
They also manufacture for big names such as Koga, Bianchi and Kona and they
build suspension rear shocks for Manitou.. They also market their own brand
called Fastrax.
So, the Scott is a fantastic frame and you can be sure that it was well
thought out and well manufactured.

Regarding your bike purchase, I think you should spend a little bit more
money on a nice pair of wheels and some good tyres.
This will improve the ride more than the frame material.

Cheers,
Jason
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

Now, I spent the last few years on a Cannondale CAAD7 frame and have no
complaints about aluminum and have not ridden carbon. I'm trying to
figure out if it is worth it to have the better components or the
carbon frame.

Regarding your question about the Scott CF-1, Scott are made by a company
called Hodaka in Tainan, Taiwan. They're probably the premier bicycle
factory in the world. And yes, I'm including the famous European marques in
that statement.
They also manufacture for big names such as Koga, Bianchi and Kona and they
build suspension rear shocks for Manitou.. They also market their own brand
called Fastrax.
So, the Scott is a fantastic frame and you can be sure that it was well
thought out and well manufactured.

Regarding your bike purchase, I think you should spend a little bit more
money on a nice pair of wheels and some good tyres.
This will improve the ride more than the frame material.

Cheers,
Jason
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for a new road racing bike and am looking to spend
around $3k. I've noticed that in this price range you tend to have a
choice between higher end components or a higher end frame. There are
some Trek's in this range with Ultegra components. However, there is a
nice aluminum Cannondale that comes with full Dura-Ace.

Now, I spent the last few years on a Cannondale CAAD7 frame and have no
complaints about aluminum and have not ridden carbon. I'm trying to
figure out if it is worth it to have the better components or the
carbon frame.

BFD-<< First, I agree that
FIT is the most important factor, or at least should be, in choosing a
frame or bike. However, I think choosing shifters is a part of fitting
and can be a major factor. That is what kind of shifters do you prefer
- Ergo, STI, dt, bar-end, or none. Shifters shouldn't "wear out and be
replaced regularly". Of course, with Shimano STI levers, those can
wear out and if so, will need replacing. I also agree that most
everything else is minor. >><BR><BR>

But as I pointed out, ther frame is the most important part. Spend more $ on
the frame, less for the STI lever. Get a ultegra instead of DA, Centaur instead
of Chorus, put the $ difference in other areas.

We wonder when a person gets a Luna with Record instead of a Tetra with
Centaur.

I would rather ride my Merckx MXLeader with Sora than some aluminum POS with
Record.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

BFD-<< First, I agree that
FIT is the most important factor, or at least should be, in choosing a
frame or bike. However, I think choosing shifters is a part of fitting
and can be a major factor. That is what kind of shifters do you prefer
- Ergo, STI, dt, bar-end, or none. Shifters shouldn't "wear out and be
replaced regularly". Of course, with Shimano STI levers, those can
wear out and if so, will need replacing. I also agree that most
everything else is minor. >><BR><BR>

But as I pointed out, ther frame is the most important part. Spend more $ on
the frame, less for the STI lever. Get a ultegra instead of DA, Centaur instead
of Chorus, put the $ difference in other areas.

We wonder when a person gets a Luna with Record instead of a Tetra with
Centaur.

I would rather ride my Merckx MXLeader with Sora than some aluminum POS with
Record.

That I do not understand Peter. Is it because de Merckx is better than a
no name aluminium frame that is well made, fits you and has a good and
durable paint job or is it because you find the Merckx more beautiful?
If it is the latter I do understand, but then maybe you can understand
why some people, like me find Record more beautiful than Sora (yuck) and
spent more money on components.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BFD-<< First, I agree that
FIT is the most important factor, or at least should be, in choosing a
frame or bike. However, I think choosing shifters is a part of fitting
and can be a major factor. That is what kind of shifters do you prefer
- Ergo, STI, dt, bar-end, or none. Shifters shouldn't "wear out and be
replaced regularly". Of course, with Shimano STI levers, those can
wear out and if so, will need replacing. I also agree that most
everything else is minor. >><BR><BR>

But as I pointed out, ther frame is the most important part. Spend more $
on
the frame, less for the STI lever. Get a ultegra instead of DA

I will disagree in part with Peter re getting ultegra instead of DA STI
levers. DA comes with a 3 year warranty, ultegra is only 2. Since STI levers
cannot be rebuilt, unlike Campy, the extra year of warranty is worth the
difference in price. After that, everything else ultegra is fine.

bfd said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo " <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BFD-<< First, I agree that
FIT is the most important factor, or at least should be, in choosing a
frame or bike. However, I think choosing shifters is a part of fitting
and can be a major factor. That is what kind of shifters do you prefer
- Ergo, STI, dt, bar-end, or none. Shifters shouldn't "wear out and be
replaced regularly". Of course, with Shimano STI levers, those can
wear out and if so, will need replacing. I also agree that most
everything else is minor. >><BR><BR>

But as I pointed out, ther frame is the most important part. Spend more $
on
the frame, less for the STI lever. Get a ultegra instead of DA

I will disagree in part with Peter re getting ultegra instead of DA STI
levers. DA comes with a 3 year warranty, ultegra is only 2. Since STI levers
cannot be rebuilt, unlike Campy, the extra year of warranty is worth the
difference in price. After that, everything else ultegra is fine.

So why not Centaur instead of either and save money besides?

Ron