Carbo loading before a race?

I'm glad you asked this as I'm been too shy to mention it before.

I started racing last year and am trying to race every weekend that I can at
the same time lifting my weekly km to between 200-300km. During the last 6
months I've found that I need to watch what I eat (I use the word fuel now)
as if I dont get the right combination of carbs and protein I feel very
sluggish and tired during the day at work. The night before a race we have
started the tradition of making our own pasta and I pig out. This gives me
more energy for the race there is no doubt but for prolonged exercise I
still need to fuel during the ride. I've tried rice the night before but
it doesnt seem to have the kick of pasta or doest last as long I dont know.
During the ride I've switched from dates to cheap apple/cinnamon bars but
the best is the Gels. I only buy the Gels for special occasions as it gets
a bit expensive.

Anyway I'm very keen to hear what others are doing.

Cheers
Gary

"jb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the atkins
revolution. I would encourage you to investigate these lo-carb choices
othwerwise you are going to be addited to carbs and that's not a good thing.
Let me put it this way, your grandfather was just hunting and gathering right?
And as lean as they were, do you think that carbs were a dietary artifact, no?
No. It is a know proven fact now that the health of the ancients was due to low
carb hi protein (and yes even some fats).

For biking I would encourage a solid breakfast of ham and eggs with coffee.

"jb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

hmmm....can't say I disagree with you since I really don't know the answer
for sure, but I know that I have recently read in textbooks that carbo
loading helps store glycogen in muscles, and that for prolonged efforts, if
your muscles run out of glycogen, cramping etc. will occur...
I too am interested to hear what others here do..

"carbo_jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the atkins
revolution. I would encourage you to investigate these lo-carb choices
othwerwise you are going to be addited to carbs and that's not a good

thing.

Quoted message said:

Let me put it this way, your grandfather was just hunting and gathering

right?

Quoted message said:

And as lean as they were, do you think that carbs were a dietary artifact,

no?

Quoted message said:

No. It is a know proven fact now that the health of the ancients was due

to low

Quoted message said:

carb hi protein (and yes even some fats).

For biking I would encourage a solid breakfast of ham and eggs with

coffee.

Quoted message said:

"jb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

carbo_jim said:

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the atkins
revolution.

This propaganda is unfortunately foisted on those whose ignorance
will allow it.

Carbohydrates are a necessary part of a healthy diet. An unhealthy
diet that's missing important parts can cause weight loss, which is
why no-carb or no-[protein+fat+whatever] diets can result in lost
weight. The lost weight does not necessarily mean a healthier body.

Quoted message said:

Let me put it this way, your grandfather was just hunting and gathering right?

My grandfather bought his food and served on a ship in the navy. He
hunted other ships, and gathered...umm...medals?

Somewhere, pre-civilization, my ancestors did hunt and gather. Of
course, they hunted protein/fat and gathered carbohydrates. This was
many thousands of years ago; since then, and over an
evolutionary-length period, humans of many/most descents have eaten
bread very commonly, maybe even as most of their diet.

I don't think that, 4500 years ago, the Egyptians building pyramids
were having any "carbohydrate poisoning" problems, eating bread
often.

From http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/diet.htm :
:For the common people of Egypt, cereal foods formed the main
:backbone of their diet from the predynastic period onward.  Even for
:the rich, this staple mean generally consisted of a variety of
:different breads, often with other ingredients mixed in.

Other civilizations also ate bread, prospered, and later descended
to become you and me.

Quoted message said:

And as lean as they were, do you think that carbs were a dietary artifact, no?
No. It is a know proven fact now that the health of the ancients was due to low
carb hi protein (and yes even some fats).

Their alleged health was due to their exercise -- they had to run
all day to get their food. They didn't live very long, so their
bodies were younger and probably healthier when they died.

Quoted message said:

For biking I would encourage a solid breakfast of ham and eggs with coffee.

Carbohydrates are the fuel your body uses best. There's no sense in
depriving your body of it's optimum fuel when you're asking it to
provide high output. Of course, more important is experimenting to
find out what works for _you_ -- if you perform and/or feel better
on ham and eggs with coffee, then that's definitely what you should
have before a race. The best way to find out is to experiment.

All this talk about food is making me hungry. Gimme a cheeseburger,
with the bun!
--
Rick Onanian

KB said:

hmmm....can't say I disagree with you since I really don't know the answer
for sure, but I know that I have recently read in textbooks that carbo
loading helps store glycogen in muscles, and that for prolonged efforts, if
your muscles run out of glycogen, cramping etc. will occur...
I too am interested to hear what others here do..

The trick is this...

Eat the carbs, by themselves (i.e., not with fat or protein) and eat them
just before or just after the exercise. This will cause a rise in insulin,
but because of the needs of the body going into or finishing exercise, the
nutrients will be used to build muscle, and will not go into fat storage.

In between exercise, it's better for those predisposed to gain weight
(fat), to eat higher protein and good fat.

Works for me.

Just before a ride I will eat some small amt of carbs (couple pieces of
chocolate?), and finish with some diluted OJ. Then about two hours later
I'll eat the protein meal. Two or three hours after that, and just before
or after the next exercise period, I repeat.

I have found that even sugar free drinks or chewing gum will often suffice.
I think in some ppl, the sweet taste can cause a rise in insulin, and thus
movement of nutrient into muscles.

Obviously, the converse is true. Beware of eating sweet-tasting things
along with fat, b/c you might be one of those that has an insulin rise just
to the taste, even in the absence of digestible carbs/glucose.

-B

Rick Onanian said:

carbo_jim said:

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the atkins
revolution.

This propaganda is unfortunately foisted on those whose ignorance
will allow it.

Carbohydrates are a necessary part of a healthy diet.

There is -no- dietary requirement for carbs. The body produces glucose when
needed by way of 'gluconeogenesis'.

This doesn't mean that judicious use of glucose/carbs can't help the
exercising individual.

-B

I have been low carbing for a while to lose a few, but now I do eat carbs
before I take rides over 30 miles. I find if I don't I hit a wall and did
get a bit dizzy once. That was enough of that. I find for me YMMV, that if
I eat a balanced meal with good carbs the night before and during the ride
eat a banana or some granola or something, I feel fine. If I am just going
to ride like 25 miles I don't pay attention to what I eat much, just make
sure I drink enough water. I think this would be different for everyone. I
have heard people starting to carbo load 3-4 days in advance. I am not sure
why because it takes something like 24 hours for you to digest food you eat
+-.

You may have to find what is right for you. I would make sure you eat a
good dinner the night before for starters and a good breakfast that each
have some good carbs.

Enjoy,
Curt

"jb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

Quoted message said:

Carbo loading before a race?
Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

Having read the first 7 replies to this post, I must say I'm a little surprised
that this subject isn't better known among cyclists, as it is well known among
distance runners. If you posted this inquiry on rec.running, for example, you
would get an earful of valuable replies. Perhaps you should do that.

The length of your race is the first determiner of your answer. Runners
wouldn't really consider the topic worthy of much discussion for distances less
than 5k (13-30 minutes), but once you get up over 10k (27-60 minutes), and to
half-marathon (60-100 minutes) and marathon (2-4 hours) or ultras (30k to 100
miles, etc.), carbo loading becomes of genuine value. Use equivalent expected
cycling event times to estimate the significance of loading.

The original theory was that you needed a carbo-depletion phase during your
pre-race taper, but that seems to be largely discredited now, and the
generally-accepted view is simply to do your carbo-load the last day or two
before the event, and perhaps top it off the morning of the race.

As to how to load, you need not be very scientific. For shorter events of
higher intensity, I personally favor a mix of complex carbohydrates (starches)
and simple carbohydrates (sugars). For example, toss down a couple glazed
donuts and some strong coffee the morning before you race.

For longer events (century, double century, etc.) where true carbo-loading is
desired, eat what you know from experience your system can handle well, but
emphasize things like bread, rice, pasta (the best-known carbo-loader), and so
on. Have a good sweet dessert (but not a particularly fatty one), e.g., cake
or cookies. This will stock you well with glycogen for your event. During a
longer event, it is also common to intake enough carbs on the fly to maintain
your levels, using sport drinks, gels, bananas, fruit, honey, etc. I once
recovered from a bonk on the road by chugging most of a jar of honey. Don't
let that happen to you!

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carbo loading before a race?
Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

Having read the first 7 replies to this post, I must say I'm a little

surprised

Quoted message said:

that this subject isn't better known among cyclists, as it is well known

among

Quoted message said:

distance runners. If you posted this inquiry on rec.running, for example,

you

Quoted message said:

would get an earful of valuable replies. Perhaps you should do that.

Interesting.

Quoted message said:

The length of your race is the first determiner of your answer. Runners
wouldn't really consider the topic worthy of much discussion for distances

less

Quoted message said:

than 5k (13-30 minutes), but once you get up over 10k (27-60 minutes), and

to

Quoted message said:

half-marathon (60-100 minutes) and marathon (2-4 hours) or ultras (30k to

100

Quoted message said:

miles, etc.), carbo loading becomes of genuine value. Use equivalent

expected

Quoted message said:

cycling event times to estimate the significance of loading.

I covered this in my post, just not in such detail.

Quoted message said:

The original theory was that you needed a carbo-depletion phase during

your

Quoted message said:

pre-race taper, but that seems to be largely discredited now, and the
generally-accepted view is simply to do your carbo-load the last day or

two

Quoted message said:

before the event, and perhaps top it off the morning of the race.

I stated the same thing, but made it more personal because I feel this is a
personal thing. Some people eat a big mac the day before a race and feel
that is the best for them. Just read that in a running mag and found if
pretty funny.

Quoted message said:

As to how to load, you need not be very scientific. For shorter events of
higher intensity, I personally favor a mix of complex carbohydrates

(starches)

Quoted message said:

and simple carbohydrates (sugars). For example, toss down a couple glazed
donuts and some strong coffee the morning before you race.

If I did what you do, I would not perform well at all, but as I stated
earlier, everyone is different and you need to find what works for you.

Quoted message said:

For longer events (century, double century, etc.) where true carbo-loading

is

Quoted message said:

desired, eat what you know from experience your system can handle well,

but

Quoted message said:

emphasize things like bread, rice, pasta (the best-known carbo-loader),

and so

Quoted message said:

on. Have a good sweet dessert (but not a particularly fatty one), e.g.,

cake

Quoted message said:

or cookies. This will stock you well with glycogen for your event.

During a

Quoted message said:

longer event, it is also common to intake enough carbs on the fly to

maintain

Quoted message said:

your levels, using sport drinks, gels, bananas, fruit, honey, etc. I once
recovered from a bonk on the road by chugging most of a jar of honey.

Don't

Quoted message said:

let that happen to you!

A buddy of mine used to eat a large MacDonalds pizza (when they made them,
way back...) the morning of a race. He would then proceed to kick our
asses..

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TopCounsel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carbo loading before a race?
Anyone here do this? What exactly do you eat, and when??

Having read the first 7 replies to this post, I must say I'm a little

surprised

Quoted message said:

that this subject isn't better known among cyclists, as it is well known

among

Quoted message said:

distance runners. If you posted this inquiry on rec.running, for

example,

Quoted message said:

you

Quoted message said:

would get an earful of valuable replies. Perhaps you should do that.

Interesting.

Quoted message said:

The length of your race is the first determiner of your answer. Runners
wouldn't really consider the topic worthy of much discussion for

distances

Quoted message said:

less

Quoted message said:

than 5k (13-30 minutes), but once you get up over 10k (27-60 minutes),

and

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

half-marathon (60-100 minutes) and marathon (2-4 hours) or ultras (30k

to

Quoted message said:

100

Quoted message said:

miles, etc.), carbo loading becomes of genuine value. Use equivalent

expected

Quoted message said:

cycling event times to estimate the significance of loading.

I covered this in my post, just not in such detail.

Quoted message said:

The original theory was that you needed a carbo-depletion phase during

your

Quoted message said:

pre-race taper, but that seems to be largely discredited now, and the
generally-accepted view is simply to do your carbo-load the last day or

two

Quoted message said:

before the event, and perhaps top it off the morning of the race.

I stated the same thing, but made it more personal because I feel this is

a

Quoted message said:

personal thing. Some people eat a big mac the day before a race and feel
that is the best for them. Just read that in a running mag and found if
pretty funny.

Quoted message said:

As to how to load, you need not be very scientific. For shorter events

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

higher intensity, I personally favor a mix of complex carbohydrates

(starches)

Quoted message said:

and simple carbohydrates (sugars). For example, toss down a couple

glazed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

donuts and some strong coffee the morning before you race.

If I did what you do, I would not perform well at all, but as I stated
earlier, everyone is different and you need to find what works for you.

Quoted message said:

For longer events (century, double century, etc.) where true

carbo-loading

Quoted message said:

is

Quoted message said:

desired, eat what you know from experience your system can handle well,

but

Quoted message said:

emphasize things like bread, rice, pasta (the best-known carbo-loader),

and so

Quoted message said:

on. Have a good sweet dessert (but not a particularly fatty one), e.g.,

cake

Quoted message said:

or cookies. This will stock you well with glycogen for your event.

During a

Quoted message said:

longer event, it is also common to intake enough carbs on the fly to

maintain

Quoted message said:

your levels, using sport drinks, gels, bananas, fruit, honey, etc. I

once

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

recovered from a bonk on the road by chugging most of a jar of honey.

Don't

Quoted message said:

let that happen to you!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rick Onanian said:

carbo_jim said:

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the atkins
revolution.

This propaganda is unfortunately foisted on those whose ignorance
will allow it.

Carbohydrates are a necessary part of a healthy diet. An unhealthy
diet that's missing important parts can cause weight loss, which is
why no-carb or no-[protein+fat+whatever] diets can result in lost
weight. The lost weight does not necessarily mean a healthier body.

Quoted message said:

Let me put it this way, your grandfather was just hunting and gathering
right?

My grandfather bought his food and served on a ship in the navy. He
hunted other ships, and gathered...umm...medals?

Somewhere, pre-civilization, my ancestors did hunt and gather. Of
course, they hunted protein/fat and gathered carbohydrates. This was
many thousands of years ago; since then, and over an
evolutionary-length period, humans of many/most descents have eaten
bread very commonly, maybe even as most of their diet.

I don't think that, 4500 years ago, the Egyptians building pyramids
were having any "carbohydrate poisoning" problems, eating bread
often.

From http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/diet.htm :
:For the common people of Egypt, cereal foods formed the main
:backbone of their diet from the predynastic period onward.  Even for
:the rich, this staple mean generally consisted of a variety of
:different breads, often with other ingredients mixed in.

Other civilizations also ate bread, prospered, and later descended
to become you and me.

Quoted message said:

And as lean as they were, do you think that carbs were a dietary artifact,
no?
No. It is a know proven fact now that the health of the ancients was due to
low
carb hi protein (and yes even some fats).

Their alleged health was due to their exercise -- they had to run
all day to get their food. They didn't live very long, so their
bodies were younger and probably healthier when they died.

Quoted message said:

For biking I would encourage a solid breakfast of ham and eggs with coffee.

Carbohydrates are the fuel your body uses best. There's no sense in
depriving your body of it's optimum fuel when you're asking it to
provide high output. Of course, more important is experimenting to
find out what works for _you_ -- if you perform and/or feel better
on ham and eggs with coffee, then that's definitely what you should
have before a race. The best way to find out is to experiment.

All this talk about food is making me hungry. Gimme a cheeseburger,
with the bun!
--
Rick Onanian

Good post!

A few years ago, there was a show on TV called ³The Infinite Voyage².
They did a study on people living above the 15K level in Tibet. These people
lived on average into the 120 year range.

Their diet, mostly bread and goat products, would kill the average American by
age 40.

The result of the study....... NO stress!

Riding a bike on a daily basis is the best stress reliever IMNSHO.

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

KB said:

A buddy of mine used to eat a large MacDonalds pizza (when they made
them, way back...) the morning of a race. He would then proceed to
kick our asses..

Jon Stamstad, past Iditabike winner, eats donuts.

Matt O.

"carbo_jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Let me put it this way, your grandfather was just hunting and gathering

right?

Quoted message said:

And as lean as they were, do you think that carbs were a dietary artifact,

no?

Even if we allow this misinformation consider the answer to these questions:
1) Did "your grandfather" ride a bicycle continuously for 8+ hours a day?
2) How long did "your grandfather" live?

Matthew

Carbo_jim said:

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the atkins
revolution.

That statment is WAY over exagerated and is more "hype" than "fact".
Truth is we should be eating a balanced diet, Carbs, protien, and fat.
To much of any of those nutrients is unhealthy but the balance is
different for each person. Essentially we need to recognize that "food
is fuel" and that carbs, protien and fat all have a specific purposes.
If your body is going to be burning high volumes of energy you probably
need more fuel than protien can provide since it takes the body longer
to break down the protien. Carbs can be an excellent source of "on-
demand" high energy and actually helps your body during high volume
output by providing quick and easily converted energy.

As for the Atkins craze, its alright if your going to sit all day doing
next to nothing. Why would you need energy rich food for that? As for
the rest of us, we can eat a balanced diet because our bodies will use
the fuel rather than store it for later use.

Now I'm going to eat, ride and be happy.

Dan.

--

Carbo_jim said:

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the atkins
revolution. I would encourage you to investigate these lo-carb choices
othwerwise you are going to be addited to carbs and that's not a good
thing. Let me put it this way, your grandfather was just hunting and
gathering right? And as lean as they were, do you think that carbs were
a dietary artifact, no? No. It is a know proven fact now that the health
of the ancients was due to low carb hi protein (and yes even some fats).
For biking I would encourage a solid breakfast of ham and eggs
with coffee.

That statment is WAY over exagerated and is more "hype" than "fact".
Truth is we should be eating a balanced diet, carbs, protien, and fat.
To much of any of those nutrients is unhealthy but the balance is
different for each person. Essentially we need to recognize that "food
is fuel" and that carbs, protien and fat all have a specific purposes.
If your body is going to be burning high volumes of energy you probably
need more fuel than protien can provide since it takes the body longer
to break down the protien. Carbs can be an excellent source of "on-
demand" high energy and actually helps your body during high volume
output by providing quick and easily converted energy.

As for the Atkins craze, its alright if your going to sit all day doing
next to nothing. Why would you need energy rich food for that? As for
the rest of us, we can eat a balanced diet because our bodies will use
the fuel rather than store it for later use.

Now I'm going to eat, ride and be happy.

Dan.

--

Rick Onanian said:

All this talk about food is making me hungry. Gimme a cheeseburger,
with the bun!

as a vegetarian -- forget the meat, hand me the bun! i could live off
what these yahoos throw away.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

KB said:

hmmm....can't say I disagree with you since I really don't know the
answer for sure, but I know that I have recently read in textbooks
that carbo loading helps store glycogen in muscles, and that for
prolonged efforts, if your muscles run out of glycogen, cramping
etc. will occur...
I too am interested to hear what others here do..

The trick is this...

Eat the carbs, by themselves (i.e., not with fat or protein) and eat
them just before or just after the exercise. This will cause a rise
in insulin, but because of the needs of the body going into or
finishing exercise, the nutrients will be used to build muscle, and
will not go into fat storage.

That's not possible. Muscles are built from protein. Carbs are the body's
prime source of glucose. You take simple carbs immediately after exercise
to spike your insulin, replenish muscle glycogen and inhibit cortisol
production. The insulin will enhance muscle uptake of protein, thereby
aiding protein synthesis, as well as uptake of supplements like creatine.
Therefore, to optimise the post-exercise window (which, BTW, is greatest
after anaboloic exercise), you want whey protein, because it is highly
absorbent, and a 50:50 mix of dextrose (glucose) and maltodextrin, because
together they promote the highest stimulation of the transport mechanisms in
the intestinal lumen resulting in the most efficient absorbtion of macro-
and micronutrients into the blood stream.

Quoted message said:

In between exercise, it's better for those predisposed to gain weight
(fat), to eat higher protein and good fat.

Works for me.

What's actually happening is that your body's energy buffering mechanisms
are coping with your retarded eating habits.

Quoted message said:

Just before a ride I will eat some small amt of carbs (couple pieces
of chocolate?), and finish with some diluted OJ. Then about two hours
later I'll eat the protein meal. Two or three hours after that, and
just before or after the next exercise period, I repeat.

I have found that even sugar free drinks or chewing gum will often
suffice. I think in some ppl, the sweet taste can cause a rise in
insulin, and thus movement of nutrient into muscles.

Insulin is produced as a result of increased blood sugar levels.

Quoted message said:

Obviously, the converse is true. Beware of eating sweet-tasting things
along with fat, b/c you might be one of those that has an insulin
rise just to the taste, even in the absence of digestible
carbs/glucose.

That's just nonsense. No sugars, no insulin.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

carbo_jim said:

It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the
atkins revolution.

This propaganda is unfortunately foisted on those whose ignorance
will allow it.

Carbohydrates are a necessary part of a healthy diet.

Complex carbohydrates are a necesary part of a healthy diet. It's possible
to live quite well without simple sugars.

Quoted message said:

An unhealthy
diet that's missing important parts can cause weight loss, which is
why no-carb or no-[protein+fat+whatever] diets can result in lost
weight.

Er, no. Weight loss only occurs when energy out > energy in. The reason
Atkins and similar diets work is primarily because high protein diets
suppress appetite more than other kinds, so even though people are
theoretically allowed to eat as much as they want (within reason) they
simply end up reducing their calorific intake below their maintenance levels
naturally.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"curt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I have been low carbing for a while to lose a few, but now I do eat
carbs before I take rides over 30 miles. I find if I don't I hit a
wall and did get a bit dizzy once. That was enough of that. I find
for me YMMV, that if I eat a balanced meal with good carbs the night
before and during the ride eat a banana or some granola or something,
I feel fine. If I am just going to ride like 25 miles I don't pay
attention to what I eat much, just make sure I drink enough water. I
think this would be different for everyone. I have heard people
starting to carbo load 3-4 days in advance. I am not sure why
because it takes something like 24 hours for you to digest food you
eat +-.

True carb loading is basically for powerlifters who want that 101% lift on
competition day. Essentially you go low carb a week or so before the
competition and lift like crazy to deplete your muscle glycogen. Of course,
at this point you feel like [censored] and are as weak as a kitten because you've
got no energy, but then a couple of days before the competition you go
stupid on the carbs and if you time it right you can achieve a temporary
overloading of muscle glycogen right on competition day. However, it's of
sod all benefit for endurance activities like cycling. Going stupid on the
carbs the night before a race or whatever is just building up your fat
reserves but you don't notice that because you work it off the next day.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?