Can you make it to the market on a bike?

[Ian Smith]

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Thu, 26 Jul, donquijote1954 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "The Bikeway Controversy"
>
> No more controversies please. Just the problem (no bike facilities)
> and the solution (bike lanes, bike paths, right lane is bike lane, or
> just letting the gallon of gas be $10).

You mean something must be done, and you don't care whether it's right
or useful or beneficial? Are you running for office?

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

 

[Tony Raven]

donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> "The Bikeway Controversy"
>
> No more controversies please. Just the problem (no bike facilities)
> and the solution (bike lanes, bike paths, right lane is bike lane, or
> just letting the gallon of gas be $10).
>

You have it the wrong way round. The problems are the bike lanes, bike
paths etc. The solution is no bike facilities. But I doubt you will
accept that whatever the evidence.

Tony

 

[Wayne Pein]

donquijote1954 wrote:

> So what's your solution? I say let the right lane be the bike lane. No
> cars there, period. Car hitting bicycle upon making right could have a
> nice vacation on Guantanamo Base. Orange uniform will fit them nicely.
>

The outside normal lane *is* the "bike lane." There just happens to be
cars and other motor vehicles in it. If you don't want them to pass you
in your lane, use more of it.

Wayne

 

[Bill Z.]

Wayne Pein <[email protected]> writes:

> Bill Z. wrote:
>
>
> > We have very wide roads around here by European standards. One effect
> > the bike lanes have is to make inexperienced cyclists more comfortable
> > riding further from the curb than they otherwise would, and that
> > decreases the chance of being cut off by a turning vehicle, but
> > doesn't reduce it to zero.
>
> The increased distance inexperienced cyclists ride from the curb in a
> bike lane is insignificant and has no bearing on the occurance of a
> hook collision.

Absolutely false. They'll ride anywhere inside a bike lane. Without
one, they hug the curb regardless, except on next-to-zero-traffic
residential streets.

The further you are from the curb, the less chances you have of being
cut off, and the more room you have to avoid an accident otherwise.

> For experts, the bike lanes make very
> > little difference (as long as they follow current design standards).
>
> Bike lanes reduce the ability of bicyclists to manage their lateral
> position, and their space is reduced.

Not true at all. Read the California Vehicle Code and compare where
you can legally ride with and without bike lanes (and you can legally
ignore any bike lane that was not installed in conformance with
state design standards).

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 11:45 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Amy Blankenship" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news[email protected]...
>
> >> I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. For instance, we know that
> >> having railroad tracks at grade with car and pedestrian traffic is less
> >> safe than separating the two. However, often the unsafe situation is
> >> allowed to remain for cost or other reasons (such as people don't want
> >> the disruption of the construction involved). Another example is that
> >> the absolute safest you can keep your child is if you lock him or her
> >> into a bubble made of diamond. There are a lot of reasons why you might
> >> make choices to allow him or her to be less safe than that. Hence
> >> children on bike trails ;-).
>
> > I think it's generally nearly always your fault if you're a car or a
> > pedestrian and you hit a train. If you're that stupid you deserve it.
>
> What if you're just waiting innocently in traffic an someone else gets hit
> by the train and goes flying into you or derails the train on top of you?
> Do you deserve that as well?

In the rare event that that happens no, but it's still not the train's
fault.

 

[Bill Z.]

Tony Raven <[email protected]> writes:

> Wayne Pein wrote:
> > Bike lanes reduce the ability of bicyclists to manage their lateral
> > position, and their space is reduced.
> >
>
> And they encourage cars to pass closer.
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/report/cycle-lanes.pdf
>
> Tony

You can't be serious - this is a web site put up by some guys with
an agenda. There is no reason to take it seriously. Provide something
respectable, like a journal article.



--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

 

[Bill Z.]

"Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> writes:

> Experienced cyclists are killed all the time because of incredibly stupid
> drivers.

So are experienced drivers, so what is your point?

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 10:12 am, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> > >> Nah, we need people who can learn to live with other forms of
> > >> transportation, whether it be cars or bicycles.
>
> > > Joe, about once a year I visit a major metro and I am appalled by
> > > the traffic congestion that I see everywhere in those metros. It is
> > > simply insane how we keep piling up motor vehicles on top of motor
> > > vehicles.
>
> > It's how people want to live.
>
> No, it's how people think they have to live because they've been on the
> receiving end of massive social engineering by the automotive and oil
> industries to benefit the automotive and oil industries.

You're a kook and yes I've heard of this. All this did was replace
streetcars with busses.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
>
> If you ask people whether they *want* to spend the equivalent an a work
> week every year sitting in traffic, they'd tell you "no." Except for a
> few weirdos. I calculated once that if I didn't own a car and pay the
> associated costs, I could work four days a week and come out ahead. My
> compromise is to buy a good used car for cash and replace it every 10
> years if needed, and to ride my bike for practical use (going to work,
> going to the store, going to visit friends, etc.) when I can.

People are willing to accept a little traffic for having a nice house
out in the burbs. I'm sorry to tell you this but it's true.

> > Oh God here we go with Europe again. Europe does this, Europe does
> > that. You're like someone's *****y annoying relative ("Why don't you
> > be more like your cousing Jeffy?"). I don't know how or why they do
> > that in Europe, but our citizens enjoy living their life differently.
>
> "Enjoy" is perhaps not the right word, given the endless *****ing I hear
> from people about traffic. But they also don't want to pay the trillion
> dollars in taxes that it would take for our state to eliminate the road
> congestion caused by our one-car-per-person lifestyle. Americans do
> like the false sense of independence they get from using a car, I'll
> certainly agree with you there, but car dependence creates many problems.

Haha, "false sense of independence". I like that one. Apparently
people don't know what's best for them.

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 11:49 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
> I think if you visit Scandinavian countries, you will find that the issue of
> bike-friendly infrastructure and healthcare are intimately connected in ways
> that are difficult to explain to people who are not open to making such
> connections easily.

Personally I think it's a loony connection. Bike lanes do not exist
because of democracy, not because we aren't democratic. It's purely
asinine.

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 3:58 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 9:14 am, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > On Jul 25, 7:03 pm, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> I saw Cheney mentioned (what he has to do with any of this is beyond me)
> > >> and
> > >> I saw that it said it was better in the 70's. No wonder you anti-car
> > >> people
> > >> are a bunch of marginalized freaks. You're LOONY, and if you weren't you
> > >> could actually convince people to create bike lanes or trails or
> > >> whatever,
> > >> and it would be a good thing. Posting loony article does you no good.
>
> > > America joining the select group of democratic nations could do no
> > > harm --actually it can do a lot of good. Nations the chose that path --
> > > Holland, Germany, Scandinavia-- have both Healthcare for all and bike
> > > lanes.
>
> > You're a kook,why did you throw healthcare into this discussion? You wanted
> > a kooky discussion on health care even though it's got nothing to do with
> > the conversation. A minority of people in the US want bike lanes and most
> > people are happy with their own personal health care. Period.
>
> Are YOU happy with it? Do YOU personally have healthcare insurance?

The US system IS broken, but yes I have health insurance.

> It's like asking about bike lanes to someone who hates bikes. Do YOU
> go to the market by bike?

My bike was in hiatus, I'm working on getting it up and running,
hopefully this weekend. If you want to know how it turns out, email
me.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 4:37 pm, Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> > "The Bikeway Controversy"
>
> > No more controversies please. Just the problem (no bike facilities)
> > and the solution (bike lanes, bike paths, right lane is bike lane, or
> > just letting the gallon of gas be $10).
>
> You have it the wrong way round. The problems are the bike lanes, bike
> paths etc. The solution is no bike facilities. But I doubt you will
> accept that whatever the evidence.

No bike paths? Ok, then let the whole right lane belong to the bikes
and other smart transportation. Keep the dinosaurs aways from the
smart furry mammals.

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 2:31 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Jul 25, 12:30 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> Bike paths are the way to go and surely in the future there will be
> >>> thousands and thousands of miles of such paths everywhere. The fact is
> >>> that
> >>> none of us are safe on the roads and highways where we have to share the
> >>> lane with motor vehicles.
>
> >> They won't happen without a revolution. No political will. Our roads
> >> will remain a jungle until the end of times, which is near if we
> >> insist on launching war over precious resources. "Saving" is missing
> >> from the American English Dictionary. There's hope though...
>
> >>http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon:&l2=the&l3=Bana...
>
> >> THE BANANA REVOLUTION
> >>http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
>
> > Cuckoo, cuckkoo.
>
> Don Quijote is a near genius almost on my level. But all of this is way
> beyond your poor powers of perception.

Sure he is. Uh huh.

> Cuckoo indeed!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 4:56 pm, Wayne Pein <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
> > So what's your solution? I say let the right lane be the bike lane. No
> > cars there, period. Car hitting bicycle upon making right could have a
> > nice vacation on Guantanamo Base. Orange uniform will fit them nicely.
>
> The outside normal lane *is* the "bike lane." There just happens to be
> cars and other motor vehicles in it. If you don't want them to pass you
> in your lane, use more of it.

No, I don't want to be a sitting duck. Drivers are minding their cell
phones while driving oversized vehicles. Then they hit you and run.

It's a jungle out there...

SUV hits, kills boy riding bike
By Marc Robins, Globe Correspondent | July 25, 2007

A 10-year-old boy was hit and killed by a sport utility vehicle
yesterday while riding his bicycle in Randolph, the Norfolk district
attorney's office reported.

Gerald Starcevic -- a resident of Allen Street, where police said the
boy was hit about 5:20 p.m. -- said he was preparing to leave his
house when he heard the vehicle strike the boy. Starcevic went
outside, where he saw neighbors gather around the boy and then
returned inside to call 911.

Police had not determined the cause of the accident last evening, but
Starcevic said that the boy was riding down Allen Street with a friend
when he was hit. The driver may have been blinded by sunlight, he
said.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 4:02 pm, Tony Raven <[email protected]> wrote:
> donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> > Perhaps you guys have better trained drivers, not engaged on the
> > phone, or driving Supersized Unnecessary Vehicles around. You know, it
> > all adds to the terror...
>
> I've cycled extensively in your country including some very busy roads
> and find your drivers more courteous and less worrying than our drivers
> in the UK. YMMV.

Maybe many individual drivers are good, but reckless driving is the
rule.

Just compare the stats of the UK vs. the USA.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 5:05 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:21:46 -0400, "Sancho Panza"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>"Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>> More people live in cities than in
> >>> rural areas, and the proportion is still shifting towards cities.
>
> >>The last several Censuses demonstrate that you forgot the advent of the
> >>suburbs.
>
> > Worldwide urbanisation is increasing while the rural populations are
> > decreasing.
>
> > Suburbs are usually lumped in with their greater metropolitan areas
> > when looking at urbanisation.
>
> > There is also a move back to the cities as previously depressed areas
> > are gentrified or redeveloped.
>
> > Cities are getting bigger by increasing density and suburbs are
> > spreading until they butt up against the next one. The whole eastern
> > seaboard is comprised of a few metropolitan regions spreading to
> > become one huge strip city from New York to Miami.
>
> Alas, all of the above is only too true
>
> I have been quite impressed lately by the posts of Zoot Katz. Even though
> she is a dyke, she is nonetheless very intelligent and, unlike the rest of
> you, seldom says anything really stupid. I will have to start paying more
> attention to her posts in the future.

Yep, remember all those who support biking are good, car supporters
are real bad people.

Like this: "Two wheel good, four wheel bad."

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 9:21 pm, [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> writes:
> > Experienced cyclists are killed all the time because of incredibly stupid
> > drivers.
>
> So are experienced drivers, so what is your point?

You better have a lot of armor to survive in the jungle. That's why
people buy SUVs. Well, besides their Napoleonic Complex...

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 9:22 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:

> Haha, "false sense of independence". I like that one. Apparently
> people don't know what's best for them.-

The sheep just follow the slogans. "War good, healthcare baaaaad."

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 9:26 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:49 am, "Amy Blankenship"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
> > I think if you visit Scandinavian countries, you will find that the issue of
> > bike-friendly infrastructure and healthcare are intimately connected in ways
> > that are difficult to explain to people who are not open to making such
> > connections easily.
>
> Personally I think it's a loony connection. Bike lanes do not exist
> because of democracy, not because we aren't democratic. It's purely
> asinine.

Well, we are democratic in the sense of "the best democracy money can
buy," but bicyles hardly feed the corportations the way SUVs do, you
know.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 9:31 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 3:58 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 9:14 am, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > > On Jul 25, 7:03 pm, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > >> I saw Cheney mentioned (what he has to do with any of this is beyond me)
> > > >> and
> > > >> I saw that it said it was better in the 70's. No wonder you anti-car
> > > >> people
> > > >> are a bunch of marginalized freaks. You're LOONY, and if you weren't you
> > > >> could actually convince people to create bike lanes or trails or
> > > >> whatever,
> > > >> and it would be a good thing. Posting loony article does you no good.
>
> > > > America joining the select group of democratic nations could do no
> > > > harm --actually it can do a lot of good. Nations the chose that path --
> > > > Holland, Germany, Scandinavia-- have both Healthcare for all and bike
> > > > lanes.
>
> > > You're a kook,why did you throw healthcare into this discussion? You wanted
> > > a kooky discussion on health care even though it's got nothing to do with
> > > the conversation. A minority of people in the US want bike lanes and most
> > > people are happy with their own personal health care. Period.
>
> > Are YOU happy with it? Do YOU personally have healthcare insurance?
>
> The US system IS broken, but yes I have health insurance.
>
> > It's like asking about bike lanes to someone who hates bikes. Do YOU
> > go to the market by bike?
>
> My bike was in hiatus, I'm working on getting it up and running,
> hopefully this weekend. If you want to know how it turns out, email
> me.-

Keep us posted. Tell us if you ride the sidewalk, or mingle with the
sharks.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 9:34 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 2:31 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
>
> > > "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >news:[email protected]...
> > >> On Jul 25, 12:30 pm, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >>> Bike paths are the way to go and surely in the future there will be
> > >>> thousands and thousands of miles of such paths everywhere. The fact is
> > >>> that
> > >>> none of us are safe on the roads and highways where we have to share the
> > >>> lane with motor vehicles.
>
> > >> They won't happen without a revolution. No political will. Our roads
> > >> will remain a jungle until the end of times, which is near if we
> > >> insist on launching war over precious resources. "Saving" is missing
> > >> from the American English Dictionary. There's hope though...
>
> > >>http://atom.smasher.org/streetparty/?l1=Coming+Soon:&l2=the&l3=Bana...
>
> > >> THE BANANA REVOLUTION
> > >>http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
>
> > > Cuckoo, cuckkoo.
>
> > Don Quijote is a near genius almost on my level. But all of this is way
> > beyond your poor powers of perception.
>
> Sure he is. Uh huh.
>
> > Cuckoo indeed!
>
> Couldn't have said it better myself.-

I can say it even better...

"The system that we've got has got a lot of problems. Our goal is to
show what's wrong with the systemin ways that are fun and strange and
entertaining."
- Mike Bonanno of the Yes Men

Yes, I make it strange and entertaining so it appeals to people. Not
to the lions, but to the monkeys. You know what the monkey told the
lion? Read on...


WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

THE BANANA REVOLUTION
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40