Can you make it to the market on a bike?

[Bill Z.]

donquijote1954 <[email protected]> writes:

> On Jul 26, 9:21 pm, [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> writes:
> > > Experienced cyclists are killed all the time because of incredibly stupid
> > > drivers.
> >
> > So are experienced drivers, so what is your point?
>
> You better have a lot of armor to survive in the jungle. That's why
> people buy SUVs. Well, besides their Napoleonic Complex...

Instead of buying "armor", why don't we simply take away the licenses
of obviously incompetent drivers?

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 10:13 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 9:22 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Haha, "false sense of independence". I like that one. Apparently
> > people don't know what's best for them.-
>
> The sheep just follow the slogans. "War good, healthcare baaaaad."

Right, because you obviously know my position on both right? You're a
presumptious asshole.

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 10:15 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 9:26 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 26, 11:49 am, "Amy Blankenship"
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
> > > I think if you visit Scandinavian countries, you will find that the issue of
> > > bike-friendly infrastructure and healthcare are intimately connected in ways
> > > that are difficult to explain to people who are not open to making such
> > > connections easily.
>
> > Personally I think it's a loony connection. Bike lanes do not exist
> > because of democracy, not because we aren't democratic. It's purely
> > asinine.
>
> Well, we are democratic in the sense of "the best democracy money can
> buy," but bicyles hardly feed the corportations the way SUVs do, you
> know.

Who makes bikes? Isn't it corporations? Who makes mass transit?
Corporations, right?

 

[rotten]

On Jul 26, 10:17 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 9:31 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 3:58 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 26, 9:14 am, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > > >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > > > On Jul 25, 7:03 pm, "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > >> I saw Cheney mentioned (what he has to do with any of this is beyond me)
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> I saw that it said it was better in the 70's. No wonder you anti-car
> > > > >> people
> > > > >> are a bunch of marginalized freaks. You're LOONY, and if you weren't you
> > > > >> could actually convince people to create bike lanes or trails or
> > > > >> whatever,
> > > > >> and it would be a good thing. Posting loony article does you no good.
>
> > > > > America joining the select group of democratic nations could do no
> > > > > harm --actually it can do a lot of good. Nations the chose that path --
> > > > > Holland, Germany, Scandinavia-- have both Healthcare for all and bike
> > > > > lanes.
>
> > > > You're a kook,why did you throw healthcare into this discussion? You wanted
> > > > a kooky discussion on health care even though it's got nothing to do with
> > > > the conversation. A minority of people in the US want bike lanes and most
> > > > people are happy with their own personal health care. Period.
>
> > > Are YOU happy with it? Do YOU personally have healthcare insurance?
>
> > The US system IS broken, but yes I have health insurance.
>
> > > It's like asking about bike lanes to someone who hates bikes. Do YOU
> > > go to the market by bike?
>
> > My bike was in hiatus, I'm working on getting it up and running,
> > hopefully this weekend. If you want to know how it turns out, email
> > me.-
>
> Keep us posted. Tell us if you ride the sidewalk, or mingle with the
> sharks.

I live in Boston, so most likely the latter.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 10:33 pm, [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> donquijote1954 <[email protected]> writes:
> > On Jul 26, 9:21 pm, [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:
> > > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> writes:
> > > > Experienced cyclists are killed all the time because of incredibly stupid
> > > > drivers.
>
> > > So are experienced drivers, so what is your point?
>
> > You better have a lot of armor to survive in the jungle. That's why
> > people buy SUVs. Well, besides their Napoleonic Complex...
>
> Instead of buying "armor", why don't we simply take away the licenses
> of obviously incompetent drivers?

Because nobody gives a ****. Well, nobody except their victims.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 11:44 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 10:15 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 9:26 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 26, 11:49 am, "Amy Blankenship"
>
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in messagenews:[email protected]...
> > > > I think if you visit Scandinavian countries, you will find that the issue of
> > > > bike-friendly infrastructure and healthcare are intimately connected in ways
> > > > that are difficult to explain to people who are not open to making such
> > > > connections easily.
>
> > > Personally I think it's a loony connection. Bike lanes do not exist
> > > because of democracy, not because we aren't democratic. It's purely
> > > asinine.
>
> > Well, we are democratic in the sense of "the best democracy money can
> > buy," but bicyles hardly feed the corportations the way SUVs do, you
> > know.
>
> Who makes bikes? Isn't it corporations? Who makes mass transit?
> Corporations, right?-

Doesn't compare. These predators are after the big game, the fat
wallets, someone said.

 

[donquijote1954]

On Jul 26, 11:45 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:

> I live in Boston, so most likely the latter.-

Playing among the sharks is playing sitting duck. When they are
allowed to run wild, and few regulations are enforced, many things can
happen, even by accident...


Boy's Foot Nearly Severed By SUV

A 14-year-old boy was seriously injured Thursday when his bicycle was
hit by a sport utility vehicle, police said.

The boy was riding on Orchard Avenue across Ebers Street when a Dodge
Durango hit him, according to investigators. His foot was partially
severed in the collision, authorities said. His condition was not
immediately known

The driver of the Durango was a 16-year-old boy. The collision was
being investigated by police.

 

[Bill Z.]

donquijote1954 <[email protected]> writes:

> On Jul 26, 11:45 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I live in Boston, so most likely the latter.-
>
> Playing among the sharks is playing sitting duck. When they are
> allowed to run wild, and few regulations are enforced, many things can
> happen, even by accident...
>
> Boy's Foot Nearly Severed By SUV
>
> A 14-year-old boy was seriously injured Thursday when his bicycle was
> hit by a sport utility vehicle, police said.

Too bad, but the article didn't say what caused the accident or who
was responsible.

About 15 years ago in the area I live in, a small girl on a bicycle
was killed in a head-on collisions with a pickup trip. The accident
was used as a justification for a mandatory helmet law applicable to
children. The accident happened at around 6:30 PM in October, just at
the point where 6:30 PM was a bit after sunset, but not late enough
for it to be completely dark. The girl was riding without a helmet,
but the constributing factors to the accident were that she was riding
against the flow of traffic without a light in low-light conditions.

The idea that maybe children should be taught to ride in the same
direction as vehicular traffic and use lights when it is getting dark
was simply ignored, even though the driver said that he didn't see the
girl in time to stop, time that traveling in the same direction might
have provided.

Why her parents let her ride a bike without a light under those
conditions was also never brought up. All people would talk about
were helmets - while using one might have helped, that is not a
substitute for avoiding the accident in the first place.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> I have been quite impressed lately by the posts of Zoot Katz. Even though
> she is a dyke, she is nonetheless very intelligent and, unlike the rest of
> you, seldom says anything really stupid. I will have to start paying more
> attention to her posts in the future.

When did Zoot have a sex change operation?

Zoot is the one riding the bicycle in the middle of the lawn:
<http://mypage.direct.ca/i/imnot/pix/dino1_april.jpg>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tony Raven]

donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> No bike paths? Ok, then let the whole right lane belong to the bikes
> and other smart transportation. Keep the dinosaurs aways from the
> smart furry mammals.
>

Is the wrong answer. Segregation, as in most other walks of life, fails
because the dinosaurs do not have to learn to co-exist with the small
furry mammals. Mix them up and they both learn and the safety increases
is a well known phenomenom. In London cycling increased 83% and the
number of accidents decreased 28%. It has been well documented in the
literature for other countries that increases in the number cycling
leads to a decrease in the accident rate.

Tony

 

[Tony Raven]

donquijote1954 wrote:
>
> Maybe many individual drivers are good, but reckless driving is the
> rule.
>
> Just compare the stats of the UK vs. the USA.
>

So USA cyclist deaths per annum is about 700, UK about 140, a ratio of
5:1.
USA population is about 300 million, UK 60 millio. A ration of 5:1.
Deaths per million vehicle kms; USA 2.5, UK 2.0.
Ratio of total vehicle km travelled (USA:UK) 7:1.

Looks pretty comparable to me.

Tony

 

[Zoot Katz]

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:11:20 -0700, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>> I have been quite impressed lately by the posts of Zoot Katz. Even though
>> she is a dyke, she is nonetheless very intelligent and, unlike the rest of
>> you, seldom says anything really stupid. I will have to start paying more
>> attention to her posts in the future.
>
>When did Zoot have a sex change operation?

Since she started getting whooped by girls on mountain bikes.
>
>Zoot is the one riding the bicycle in the middle of the lawn:
><http://mypage.direct.ca/i/imnot/pix/dino1_april.jpg>.

She's uglier than swamp gator on a week-long drunk.
--
zk

 

[Peter Clinch]

donquijote1954 wrote:

> But before I leave you, I'd like like to comment on a commercial now
> showing here... A group of co-workers is having lunch when one of them
> starts choking. Then one guy makes all kinds of comments he read about
> what to do in such cases --but does nothing. And another guy finally
> helps the choking man out of suffocation.
>
> SO WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT THE CHOKING BICYCLE FACILITIES???

First, see what causes the choking, and then act.

Rather than say, "I know what to do, I saw it on TV!", wade in and kill
your choker with what turns out to be inappropriate action.

If you study the effects of bike infrastructure you see it doesn't help.
So going ahead with something you know won't work, because it's been
seen not to, is just a case of "we must do something. This is
something. So we'll do it". All you'll do is waste money and time /and
not actually stop the choking/.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Bill Z. wrote:

> We have very wide roads around here by European standards.

But to what degree is "here" local? I've been places in the US and
Canada where the roads were remarkably similar in most respects to many
European ones. You need to realise that your solution doesn't
necessarily scale too well to be a general solution. Would you happily
fit an extra 12' of bike lane into a typical Boston street?

> You mean you have to do a lane change just as you would if you were in
> a traffic lane and a vehicle broke down in front of you?

No, because in a normal lane change I'm sharing the road with drivers
who are used to cyclists being on the road and consequently are more
likely to notice me and know how to deal with a bike.

> Where the bike lanes tend to really help experienced cyclists is on
> heavily traveled commute routes in which cars back up at lights for
> very long distances. The bike lanes tend to "organize" the cars
> better so that you can jump to the head of the queue. I'd pass the
> stopped vehicles slowly and carefully anyway, but at least you don't
> have a slalom course to deal with.

That's where they're often popular in the UK. Works very nicely until
you get to /near/ the head of the queue and the lights change. At which
point people turn without paying much attention or if you want to be in
the lane to turn right (left in US) you're completely snookered, because
there's a mile of traffic to go by before you can move across the road.

They have some usefulness, yes. But they're not a full solution
applicable everywhere.

> That one is not true - it puts the cyclists further from the curb.

Would depend on the lane. It certainly doesn't put *me* further from
the kerb, because I typically ride slightly further out than UK lanes
are wide (I ride about 4' out typically). Imagine 12' of lane to every
road in the US for bikes, and we're in the realm of not too practical,
I'd guess. Not to say it's a bad thing in all cases, but the advantages
of segregation are often assumed rather than real AFAICT.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

donquijote1954 wrote:

> Practice riding on the road and buy Life Insurance. Your loved ones
> will appreciate it.

I do practice riding on the road. As does my wife. We don't have life
insurance. It would actually be just as relevant to being a pedestrian
if you look at the figures rather than jump to unwarranted conclusions.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Peter Clinch]

Roger Thorpe wrote:

> Notice that he puts his phone number on the sig. Are you brave enough to
> do that and if not why not?

Because he's a pointless troll. Add to killfile, ignore, is my advice
on Mr. Ed.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[dgk]

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:39:54 +0100, Tony Raven <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Joe the Aroma wrote:
>> "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Joe the Aroma wrote:
>>>> No wonder you anti-car people are a bunch of marginalized freaks. You're
>>>> LOONY, and if you weren't you could actually convince people to create
>>>> bike lanes or trails or whatever, and it would be a good thing. Posting
>>>> loony article does you no good.
>>>>
>>> Oh I don't know. If it keeps them from building more cycle farcilities
>>> many cyclists would see that as a good thing.
>>
>> What?
>>
>
>What I said. Psychle Farcilities are a thoroughly bad idea. They are
>more dangerous, slower and more inconvenient than using the roads. The
>less we have of them the better. Practice Vehicular Cycling on the road.
>
>Tony

Nonsense. I use a bike/pedestrian way down the east side of Manhattan
on my daily commute. It adds about a half mile, making it an even 15
in each direction, but it speeds up the commute because I don't have
to deal with lights or cars. I can simply pedal along without looking
in my mirror all the time.

I AM NOT A CAR. Repeat I AM NOT A CAR. I can't go as fast. Bottom
line. I do not expect folks in cars to go 12 mph to accomodate me.
That would be obnoxious.

There are places that I share the road, and cars have to also. But
there are places that I don't need to share the road, and I appreciate
them.

 

[dgk]

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:03:36 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>donquijote1954 wrote:
>
>> I'm still waiting for YOUR solution. Bike Lanes don't work, the Status
>> Quo is even worse
>
>You /assume/ it's worse, but if you look at some actual figures, rather
>than what you assume they probably might be, you'll find that cycling on
>the roads is not actually worse (and is indeed typically better) than
>cycling on bike lanes and bike paths. There will be exceptions to that,
>but they're the exceptions, not the rules.
>
>> so what's f*** solution?


Cycling needs to be fun or folks won't do it. The parts of my ride
where I am on major streets (like 2nd ave heading south in Manhattan)
are not fun. Riding on a path where I don't need to worry about cars,
buses, trucks, and taxis, is fun. Most people do not enjoy riding
bikes in car traffic.

 

[Amy Blankenship]

"rotten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jul 26, 11:49 am, "Amy Blankenship"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> messagenews:[email protected]...
>> I think if you visit Scandinavian countries, you will find that the issue
>> of
>> bike-friendly infrastructure and healthcare are intimately connected in
>> ways
>> that are difficult to explain to people who are not open to making such
>> connections easily.
>
> Personally I think it's a loony connection. Bike lanes do not exist
> because of democracy, not because we aren't democratic. It's purely
> asinine.

The Scandinavians are remarkably sane people.

 

[Amy Blankenship]

"Bill Z." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> donquijote1954 <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> On Jul 26, 11:45 pm, rotten <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > I live in Boston, so most likely the latter.-
>>
>> Playing among the sharks is playing sitting duck. When they are
>> allowed to run wild, and few regulations are enforced, many things can
>> happen, even by accident...
>>
>> Boy's Foot Nearly Severed By SUV
>>
>> A 14-year-old boy was seriously injured Thursday when his bicycle was
>> hit by a sport utility vehicle, police said.
>
> Too bad, but the article didn't say what caused the accident or who
> was responsible.
>
> About 15 years ago in the area I live in, a small girl on a bicycle
> was killed in a head-on collisions with a pickup trip. The accident
> was used as a justification for a mandatory helmet law applicable to
> children. The accident happened at around 6:30 PM in October, just at
> the point where 6:30 PM was a bit after sunset, but not late enough
> for it to be completely dark. The girl was riding without a helmet,
> but the constributing factors to the accident were that she was riding
> against the flow of traffic without a light in low-light conditions.
>
> The idea that maybe children should be taught to ride in the same
> direction as vehicular traffic and use lights when it is getting dark
> was simply ignored, even though the driver said that he didn't see the
> girl in time to stop, time that traveling in the same direction might
> have provided.
>
> Why her parents let her ride a bike without a light under those
> conditions was also never brought up. All people would talk about
> were helmets - while using one might have helped, that is not a
> substitute for avoiding the accident in the first place.

I see cyclists going against traffic on busy roads all the time. Nuts.