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Campy rear, shimano front?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
29 November 2003
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Greg
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  1. I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it. I have a
    few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this bike. That
    isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon cranks. These cranks
    only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom bracket is either octalink or
    the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom bracket, with
    the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus without any
    issues? Thanks for the help.

    Greg Keller

  2. (Greg) said:

    I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it. I have
    a few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this bike.
    That isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon cranks. These
    cranks only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom bracket is either
    octalink or the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom
    bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus
    without any issues? Thanks for the help.

    Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.

  3. Quoted message said:

    So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA
    compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus without any issues?

    yes. i have a dura-ace [octalink] crank and record shifters/derailleurs. work great.

  4. Quoted message said:

    Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.

    are you sure? i took apart an isis the other week and there was not much interference fit going on.
    octalink has a the best of the old school, namely a taper, as well as splines. it's a much better
    concept if it's possible to get past the anti-shimano thing.

    jb

  5. Greg-<< I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it.
    I have a few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this
    bike. That isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon cranks.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    <BR><BR>

    << These cranks only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom bracket is
    either octalink or the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a shimano style
    bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else campy record or
    chorus without any issues? >><BR><BR>

    Sure, put the octalinkon, the crank will work fine with Campagnolo stuff...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

  6. jim beam said:
    Quoted message said:

    Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.

    are you sure? i took apart an isis the other week and there was not much interference fit going
    on. octalink has a the best of the old school, namely a taper, as well as splines. it's a much
    better concept if it's possible to get past the anti-shimano thing.

    Unless Shimano has changed their design, it's not very good. It's entirely possoble to destroy the
    splines inside the crank (I've seen that done, even by good mechanics); there is a significant
    possibility of developing backlash in the left crank-axle interface; and it wasn't an interference
    fit in the past, the crank coming to a stop against the bottom of the splines and held in place by
    the bolt tension. I have a number of buddies with the Shimano spline cranks and about 10% of them
    have had to replace a crank thus far because of spline damage. These issues have been hashed and
    rehashed in r.b.t several times.

    My ISIS crank, OTOH, has a tight interference fit against which it bottoms out, just like a square
    taper fit, rather than bottoming out against the end of the splines. The shape of the splines seems
    much less likely to result in backlash. This is a Truvativ drank and BB, BTW. I only know of my ISIS
    crank and a buddy with an ISIS-equipped tandem, so the sample size is a *lot* smaller and thus
    problems may not have turned up yet. Of course, I've never had a problem in 30 years with a square
    taper crank- these splined things are a solution to a nonexistent problem, IMHO.

  7. Tim McNamara said:


    (Greg) said:

    I am planning on building up my dream bike, and will be putting a Ergomo power meter in it. I
    have a few issues, the first is I have always used campy stuff and plan on doing it with this
    bike. That isn't a problem in itself, but I also would like to use the FSA compact carbon
    cranks. These cranks only come in Isis or octalink so my problem is that the ergomo bottom
    bracket is either octalink or the typical campy square tapered. So my question is, can i use a
    shimano style bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA compact cranks and everything else
    campy record or chorus without any issues? Thanks for the help.

    Use the ISIS BB rather than the Octalink. It's a better design, being an interference fit.

    But the Ergomo power meter only works with tapered and Octalink BBs, not ISIS. See:
    <http://www.ergomo-usa.com/sensor.html>.

    Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

  8. Jim, Thanks for the answer, you were the only person who gave me an answer, everyone else let this
    digress into a pro isis thread.

    jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So my question is, can i use a shimano style bottom bracket, with the shimano compatable FSA
    compact cranks and everything else campy record or chorus without any issues?

    yes. i have a dura-ace [octalink] crank and record shifters/derailleurs. work great.

  9. Quoted message said:

    It's entirely possoble to destroy the splines inside the crank (I've seen that done, even by good
    mechanics);

    sure, but it's not something you see very often. you can replace brake pads on a car and mistakenly
    put metal to metal - there's only so much allowance a manufacturer can make for fitting error.

    [truth is, in the auto world, maintenence mistake-proofing is one of the biggest design challenges
    faced, not engineering or materials.]

    Quoted message said:

    there is a significant possibility of developing backlash in the left crank-axle interface;

    see above. only if fitted incorrectly.

    Quoted message said:

    and it wasn't an interference fit in the past, the crank coming to a stop against the bottom of
    the splines and held in place by the bolt tension.

    are you sure it's bottoming? i see no evidence of that on mine. it's close, but the taper is doing
    it's job and stopping the arm /just/ short of bottoming.

    Quoted message said:

    I have a number of buddies with the Shimano spline cranks and about 10% of them have had to
    replace a crank thus far because of spline damage.

    the spline damage /i've/ seen is because the retainer bolts have been fitted without the washer that
    protects the soft aluminum as the bolts approach torque - everything got all mashed up. i don't see
    that as a design problem specific to shimano other than the isis bolts i've seen have captive
    washers and shimano don't.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    My ISIS crank, OTOH, has a tight interference fit against which it bottoms out, just like a square
    taper fit

    contrary to what i thought earlier, isis is in fact tapered - or at least, the one i've just
    measured is - so yes, you do have exactly the same thing going on for isis as you do for
    square taper.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    The shape of the splines seems much less likely to result in backlash.

    yes, it's an improvement on square taper in that the shape of the splines are less likely to cause
    debilitating damage if it's used without being properly torqued. but i still believe that shimano is
    the best system - any machinist will tell you how well a [round] morse taper works.

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, I've never had a problem in 30 years with a square taper crank

    that's great, but your experience is not the case for a lot of people as you will have seen here.
    people consistently argue about bolt torques, use of threadlock, greased/non-greased tapers, etc.
    square taper is fine if fitted properly, but it's very easy to get wrong.

    Quoted message said:

    - these splined things are a solution to a nonexistent problem, IMHO.

    i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/ more mistake-proof than
    square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a morse-type taper [/and/ at the same
    time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] - seems like a good thing to me.

  10. "jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/


    more mistake-proof than square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a
    morse-type taper [/and/ at the same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] -
    seems like a good thing to me.


    One question I have is if octalink is such an *excellent* move, why is Shimano phasing it out
    octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10 one-pience crank/bb combo.
    Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and octalink will be no more.....

  11. jim beam said:
    Quoted message said:

    Of course, I've never had a problem in 30 years with a square taper crank

    that's great, but your experience is not the case for a lot of people as you will have seen here.
    people consistently argue about bolt torques, use of threadlock, greased/non-greased tapers, etc.
    square taper is fine if fitted properly, but it's very easy to get wrong.

    Quoted message said:

    - these splined things are a solution
    to a nonexistent problem, IMHO.

    i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/ more mistake-proof than
    square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a morse-type taper [/and/ at the
    same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] - seems like a good thing to me.

    Interesting that this thread is coincident with the one attacking Shimano's dominance in the
    bike industry.

    Despite never having had trouble with my square taper cranks, I think that Jim is right about
    octalink/Isis representing a real improvement, as improperly installed square tapers are a real
    problem. Any mechanic has seen many ruined cranks traceable to improper installation.

    --
    Ted Bennett Portland OR

  12. rhetorical: why go to 64-bits?

    bfd said:

    "jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/

    more mistake-proof than square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a
    morse-type taper [/and/ at the same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] -
    seems like a good thing to me.

    One question I have is if octalink is such an *excellent* move, why is Shimano phasing it out
    octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10 one-pience crank/bb combo.
    Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and octalink will be no more.....

  13. bfd said:

    "jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/


    more mistake-proof than square taper. add to that the fact that it has the benefits of a
    morse-type taper [/and/ at the same time, shimano really raised the bar on bearing quality] -
    seems like a good thing to me.


    One question I have is if octalink is such an *excellent* move, why is Shimano phasing it out
    octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10 one-pience crank/bb combo.
    Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and octalink will be no more.....

    sorry ya'all, but I couldn't resist. are we talking bout a modified Ashtabula(sp)? chls b

  14. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/
    more mistake-proof than square taper. -snip-

    Quoted message said:

    bfd wrote:>>One question I have is if octalink is such


    an *excellent* move, why is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Shimano phasing it out octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10
    one-pience crank/bb combo. Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and
    octalink will be no more.....

    Quoted message said:

    chls berry wrote: sorry ya'all, but I couldn't resist. are we talking bout a modified
    Ashtabula(sp)?

    More like a modified Chiorda or Thun

    For the younger set, these were steel right-crank-cum-spindle systems with a separate removeable
    left crank. Ashtabulas (OPC) are one piece right-spindle-left cranks.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

  15. A Muzi said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    >>i think octalink /is/ an excellent move towards a system that is /way/
    >more mistake-proof than square taper. -snip-

    Quoted message said:

    bfd wrote:>>One question I have is if octalink is such


    an *excellent* move, why is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Shimano phasing it out octalink will soon be gone with the advent of Shimano DA and XTR 10
    one-pience crank/bb combo. Eventually, this new combo will filter down to the lower groups and
    octalink will be no more.....

    Quoted message said:

    chls berry wrote: sorry ya'all, but I couldn't resist. are we talking bout a modified
    Ashtabula(sp)?

    More like a modified Chiorda or Thun

    For the younger set, these were steel right-crank-cum-spindle systems with a separate removeable
    left crank. Ashtabulas (OPC) are one piece right-spindle-left cranks.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

    seems like i've got a chiorda rusting out back with 3 piece crank. must be a late model(65-70).
    was just wondering if shimano was going full circle to Schwinn! thanks for the info chls berry

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