Campy drivetrain setup for touring

rosco' reverse-the-following'ocsor_g said:

I've read all the discussions on combining Campy Ergo and Shimano, but feel that if starting from
a clean slate it's probably better to keep Ergo brifters/rear deraileur/rear cassette/rear hub all
Campy compatible.

I tend to feel the same way but the larger Shimano cassettes could be especially handy for a touring
bike. You could have all-Campag (9 or 10sp) except Shimano hub and cassette. I use a Campag hub on
my tourer but that's mainly because I already had the wheel from a previous bike.

Quoted message said:

From a pratical standpoint, it also probably makes sense to do this as a 10 speed setup given the
longer spare parts availability lifespan of going with what is current.

I don't think that is necessary because: 9-speed cassettes will be available for a quite a while
yet, 10sp rear derailleurs are compatible with new 9sp Ergos and Ergos can always be converted to
10sp in future. Apart from any thing else, you'll save money on replacement chain.

Quoted message said:

I was figuring on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48

That would be good [using non-Campag cranks]. Ergo levers are compatible with ALL cranksets and
front derailleurs. A 24T granny ring with Campag triple can work but is impractical and annoying for
anything other than the steepest hills, IME. 36T middle (with the kind of cassettes you're
considering) would be great for low speed cruising and the moderate climbs, and saves having to use
the granny so often, but a 39 or 40T (with good value Veloce cranks and BB) is better for the faster
cruising as you don't have to shift up to the big ring so often and can use the closer spaced gears
at the small end of the block more of the time. Bit of a dilema there!

Quoted message said:

and consider two rear cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29 (~23.8
to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to
98.1 gear inches.

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing steep hills fully laden. I
use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a Marchisio
30T sprocket.
* I've not done any proper touring on it yet but do sometimes have to get up hills with very
heavy loads, and quite frankly, I even appreciate the granny gears on unloaded short rides.

Quoted message said:

I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer components with sealed
bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum. From my research it appears that none of the Campy rear
hubs have sealed bearings.

Mirage and Veloce rears do have so-called sealed cartridge bearings. They seem to last well and the
lack of any adjustment features reduces the maintenance load. Mirage/Veloce 2004 front bearings are
also "sealed".

Quoted message said:

The rear deraileur would be a Campy long cage (although the
medium cage would work if I only use the 12-25 or 13-26).

Despite the official limits, unless something has physically changed with the 2004 medium cage
derailleurs (the cage length has not) since 2003, they actually work well with a 13-27 and 14-30 in
my experience (with 26-39-52 and 26-40-50). All you have to do is use a chain as short as possible
for the big-big and avoid the smallest three or four sprockets from the granny ring.

~PB

A 30T sprocket for Campy? Where did you get it? And what cogs do you have in that casette?

Mann

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing steep hills fully laden.
I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a
Marchisio 30T sprocket.

ocsor-<< I want to go with Campagnolo Ergo brifters on drop bars >><BR><BR> << From a pratical
standpoint, it also probably makes sense to do this as a 10 speed setup given the longer spare parts
availability lifespan of going with what is current. >><BR><BR> << I was figuring on a front
crankset which gives 26-36-48 and consider two rear cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3
gear inches) or 13-29 (~23.8 to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to 98.1 gear
inches. Does this sound like a solid plan? >><BR><BR>

yep...use a 110mm/74mm bolt diameter cranks, all the rest campagnolo...go ride..

ocsor<< From my research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs have sealed bearings.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Veloce and Mirage are sealed cartridge...

<< Are there any other Campy hubs out there worth considering >><BR><BR>

shimano MTB hub, 135mm spacing, a DA 10s cogset?

ocsor- << I'm assuming I can go with a more flexible array of gearing on the front with the Ergo
(vs. STI) - is this correct? >><BR><BR>

Yep, with ERGO, iuse just about any crank/front der combo...

ocsor<< I'm looking at an ISIS based
110/74 bcd mountain bike crankset with 26-36-48 9-speed rings. A LBS is strongly suggesting I go
ISIS and not square taper if possible. >><BR><BR>

Not necessaary...call around and see who has square taper BBs andf ISIS in stock...

ocsor<< Will the Raceface 9-speed chainrings likely be compatible with a Campy 10 speed rear?

yep, w/o problem or modification..Use a 108mm for a standard frameset, a longer one for aluminum or
135mm spacing.

ocsor- << I've been wondering what to do for the front deraileur. I'm guessing the Campy triple
fronts >><BR><BR>

Use a Campagnolo triple front, it will work fine...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(111)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Also...

With a 9 or 10 spd triple, what is the guideline for which sprokets you should avoid while on the
middle chainring to avoid crossing the chain too much? I only have 7 spd rear gearing, and I tend to
avoid at minimum the the biggest and smallest and use the 5 in between, but I guess it's a little
different with more gears back there.

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

rosco' reverse-the-following'ocsor_g said:

I've read all the discussions on combining Campy Ergo and Shimano, but feel that if starting
from a clean slate it's probably better to keep Ergo brifters/rear deraileur/rear cassette/rear
hub all Campy compatible.

I tend to feel the same way but the larger Shimano cassettes could be especially handy for a
touring bike. You could have all-Campag (9 or 10sp) except Shimano hub and cassette. I use a
Campag hub on my tourer but that's mainly because I already had the wheel from a previous bike.

Quoted message said:

From a pratical standpoint, it also probably makes sense to do this as a 10 speed setup given
the longer spare parts availability lifespan of going with what is current.

I don't think that is necessary because: 9-speed cassettes will be available for a quite a while
yet, 10sp rear derailleurs are compatible with new 9sp Ergos and Ergos can always be converted to
10sp in future. Apart from any thing else, you'll save money on replacement chain.

Quoted message said:

I was figuring on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48

That would be good [using non-Campag cranks]. Ergo levers are compatible with ALL cranksets and
front derailleurs. A 24T granny ring with Campag triple can work but is impractical and annoying
for anything other than the steepest hills, IME. 36T middle (with the kind of cassettes you're
considering) would be great for low speed cruising and the moderate climbs, and saves having to
use the granny so often, but a 39 or 40T (with good value Veloce cranks and BB) is better for the
faster cruising as you don't have to shift up to the big ring so often and can use the closer
spaced gears at the small end of the block more of the time. Bit of a dilema there!

Quoted message said:

and consider two rear cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29
(~23.8 to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to
98.1 gear inches.

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing steep hills fully laden.
I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a
Marchisio 30T sprocket.
* I've not done any proper touring on it yet but do sometimes have to get up hills with very
heavy loads, and quite frankly, I even appreciate the granny gears on unloaded short rides.

Quoted message said:

I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer components with sealed
bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum. From my research it appears that none of the Campy
rear hubs have sealed bearings.

Mirage and Veloce rears do have so-called sealed cartridge bearings. They seem to last well and
the lack of any adjustment features reduces the maintenance load. Mirage/Veloce 2004 front
bearings are also "sealed".

Quoted message said:

The rear deraileur would be a Campy long cage (although the
medium cage would work if I only use the 12-25 or 13-26).

Despite the official limits, unless something has physically changed with the 2004 medium cage
derailleurs (the cage length has not) since 2003, they actually work well with a 13-27 and 14-30
in my experience (with 26-39-52 and 26-40-50). All you have to do is use a chain as short as
possible for the big-big and avoid the smallest three or four sprockets from the granny ring.

~PB

"Mann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A 30T sprocket for Campy? Where did you get it? And what cogs do you have in that casette?

I believe he said it was customized using a Marchisio 30T sproket from anysystem.deanysystem.deOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Mann

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing steep hills fully
laden. I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with
a Marchisio 30T sprocket.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Rosco


I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer components with sealed
bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum. From my research it appears that none of the Campy rear
hubs have sealed bearings.

Many thanks for all comments/review of this setup for touring.

Camppy hubs use loose balls and cones and have seals. You maybe mean 'cartridge' bearings?

Mann said:

A 30T sprocket for Campy? Where did you get it?

anysystem.deanysystem.deOpen ↗ in Germany. The same sprockets can be used with Campag 8, 9 & 10sp and Shimano
7, 8 & 9sp by using different adaptors and spacers. Each cog takes a separate adatptor. Various UK
suppliers also stock Marchsio products. I don't know about availability within the US.

Quoted message said:

And what cogs do you have in that casette?

14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-30 (9-speed) (used with 26-40-50)

14-23 taken from a 14-28 Veloce; 26 from a 13-26 Veloce.

On my other 9sp Campag bike I have: 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27 (used with 26-39-52)

13-24 from Veloce 13-26. 24 & 27 are Marchisios.

There is one obscure problem with the Marchisio sprockets: depending on chainline, chain can derail
from the largest cog when back-pedalling (happened with the second cassette I mention on road bike,
14-30 on tourer was fine). This is caused by the tooth profile. Various ways of getting round it. No
problems apart from that - although I don't personally know what a complete Marchisio cassette
shifts like (reviews vary).

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

I was figuring on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48

That would be good [using non-Campag cranks]. Ergo levers are compatible with ALL cranksets and
front derailleurs. A 24T granny ring with Campag triple can work but is impractical and annoying
for anything other than the steepest hills, IME.

No gear is annoying when you need it. I wouldn't think most people would need it for most hills,
except when touring, but you will have so much overlap with any 9 or 10-speed cassette and those
chainrings, that you could go with a smaller granny and not lose a thing. Plus, you would gain a
lower gear that you would not use --- until you needed it.

Quoted message said:

36T middle (with the kind of cassettes you're considering) would be great for low speed
cruising and the moderate climbs, and saves having to use the granny so often, but a 39 or 40T
(with good value Veloce cranks and BB) is better for the faster cruising as you don't have to
shift up to the big ring so often and can use the closer spaced gears at the small end of the
block more of the time. Bit of a dilema there!

You can actually use the big ring for cruising on the flats if it's a 48. Lots of good
options there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and consider two rear cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29 (~23.8
to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to
98.1 gear inches.

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing steep hills fully laden.

Not needed if you get the 24. I would recommend the 12-25 with these cranks, and the smallest granny
you can fit.

I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my

Quoted message said:

tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a Marchisio 30T sprocket.

I use a 12-23 9-speed and 46/30 -- adding a 20 granny for touring. Works for me.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou say?
-- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |

rosco' reverse-the-following'ocsor_g said:

With a 9 or 10 spd triple, what is the guideline for which sprokets you should avoid while on the
middle chainring to avoid crossing the chain too much? I only have 7 spd rear gearing, and I tend
to avoid at minimum the the biggest and smallest and use the 5 in between, but I guess it's a
little different with more gears back there.

All 9 sprockets from the middle ring can be used but I do notice some unpleasant friction (caused by
cross-over, felt through feet) so I tend to avoid the largest and smallest, although do use the
largest briefly sometimes. I'm sure this is helps efficiency and reduces wear - and it just *feels*
right anyway. I optimise my cassettes for this useage (making the 2nd largest sprocket large enough
from the middle ring for the moderate inclines to avoid shifting to the granny so much), otherwise a
smaller cassette with a smaller inner ring might be better. Rest of middle sprockets are ok so 9sp
vs 7sp is a non issue in this regard. The cassette isn't hugely wider than 7sp HG because sprockets
are thinner and closer together. Note. 10sp Campag is same width as 9sp Campag.

Chain stay length is a factor to how crossed over the chain will ever get. There tends to be less of
a problem on tourers with long wheel bases than squashed up road racers. Recumbents is the ultimate
example where I believe you can use all sprockets from all chainrings with no trouble at all.

~PB

I wrote: ........

Quoted message said:

On my other 9sp Campag bike I have: 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27 (used with 26-39-52)

13-24 from Veloce 13-26. 24 & 27 are Marchisios.

Correction: 13-21 taken from Veloce 13-26

~PB

I said:

10sp Campag is same width as 9sp Campag.

Another correction (?) : I think 10sp cassettes are very slightly wider - and fit on same hub
because largest cog is offset towards spokes.

~PB

"rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm getting closer to figuring out what to do with my touring bike (13

year

Quoted message said:

old Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road currently w/ Suntour XC Comp; 130mm rear spacing; 68mm bottom
bracket). My plan is to strip it down this winter,

and

Quoted message said:

send it out to be repainted and then rebuild it with a new drivetrain. So now some questions...

For a number of reasons, I want to go with Campagnolo Ergo brifters on

drop

Quoted message said:

bars and that drives a lot of the other decisions. Some have suggested

that

Quoted message said:

I rebuild it w/ Shimano for more widespread service capability in almost

any

Quoted message said:

city, but I just like the Campy Ergo better. I've read all the

discussions

Quoted message said:

on combining Campy Ergo and Shimano, but feel that if starting from a

clean

Quoted message said:

slate it's probably better to keep Ergo brifters/rear deraileur/rear cassette/rear hub all Campy
compatible. From a pratical standpoint, it

also

Quoted message said:

probably makes sense to do this as a 10 speed setup given the longer spare parts availability
lifespan of going with what is current. I was figuring on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48
and consider two rear cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29 (~23.8
to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to 98.1 gear inches. Does this sound
like a solid plan?

I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer components with sealed
bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum. From my research it appears that none of the Campy rear
hubs have sealed bearings. However, the White Industries LTA Campy cassette hub does have them.
Any comments on the LTA hub? Are there any other Campy hubs out there worth considering (I'm not
interested in fancy factory built wheelsets with proprietary or difficult to find spokes). The
rear deraileur would be a Campy long cage (although the medium cage would work if I only use the

12-25

Quoted message said:

or 13-26).

I'm assuming I can go with a more flexible array of gearing on the front with the Ergo (vs. STI) -
is this correct? I'm looking at an ISIS based
110/74 bcd mountain bike crankset with 26-36-48 9-speed rings. A LBS is strongly suggesting I go
ISIS and not square taper if possible. The Raceface Turbine LP is one ISIS crankset available
in 170mm length which

can

Quoted message said:

be configured like this. Any comments on this crankset or others which might fit the bill? Will
the Raceface 9-speed chainrings likely be compatible with a Campy 10 speed rear? How do you
determine which size bottom bracket is needed?The Raceface website says as a general guide,

"For

Quoted message said:

narrow XC triple or double road - use a 108mm. For all around triple ring setup - use a 113".
Other than trial and error, is there a way to be sure what size is right?

I've been wondering what to do for the front deraileur. I'm guessing the Campy triple fronts are
more optimized for larger chainrings (i.e.

30-40-50

Quoted message said:

or 30-42-53). Shimano seems like they have several front deraileurs whose specifications say will
handle a 46 or 48 big ring (FD-M761 (XT), or

FD-M953

Quoted message said:

(XTR)). Both are available in bottom pull. Would these be my best bet

for

Quoted message said:

the front?

Many thanks for all comments/review of this setup for touring.

On a related point...

What rims would be appropriate for this setup? You often see off center rims mentioned as a
preferred setup with Campagnolo rear hubs in order to equalize spoke tension. I assume a Velocity
Aerohead OC will be a bit limiting as far as maximum tire size. The bike has clearance for real wide
700c tires (700c x 45), and I assume those would never fit properly on such a rim.

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

Quoted message said:

I was figuring on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48

That would be good [using non-Campag cranks]. Ergo levers are

compatible

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with ALL cranksets and front derailleurs. A 24T granny ring with Campag triple can work but is
impractical and annoying for anything other than the steepest hills, IME.

No gear is annoying when you need it. I wouldn't think most people would need it for most hills,
except when touring, but you will have so much overlap with any 9 or 10-speed cassette and those
chainrings, that you could go with a smaller granny and not lose a thing. Plus, you would gain a
lower gear that you would not use --- until you needed it.

Quoted message said:

36T middle (with the kind of cassettes you're considering) would be great for low speed
cruising and the moderate climbs, and saves having

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use the granny so often, but a 39 or 40T (with good value Veloce cranks and BB) is better for
the faster cruising as you don't have to shift up

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the big ring so often and can use the closer spaced gears at the small

end

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the block more of the time. Bit of a dilema there!

You can actually use the big ring for cruising on the flats if it's a 48. Lots of good
options there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and consider two rear cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29
(~23.8 to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to
98.1 gear inches.

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing steep hills fully
laden.

Not needed if you get the 24. I would recommend the 12-25 with these cranks, and the smallest
granny you can fit.

That was how I was leaning. The 12-25 seems to give you a very nice range in the middle chainring,
and the shift to the 48 continues with a smooth progression of gears starting with the 16 or 17
tooth sprocket (this is where 10 spd is nice because you have the 16). The Campy spec for both the
medium and long cage deraileurs say you have a maximum front differential of 23. A 24-36-48 end up
being a bit beyond the spec (24 tooth differential). Can this be cheated? Your suggestion of going
with a 24 is interesting, and makes a lot of sense if it can work.

Quoted message said:

I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my

Quoted message said:

tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a Marchisio 30T sprocket.

I use a 12-23 9-speed and 46/30 -- adding a 20 granny for touring. Works for me.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | You will say Christ saith this and the apostles say this; but _`\(,_ | what canst thou
say? -- George Fox. (_)/ (_) |

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

A 24T granny ring with Campag triple can work but is impractical

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I meant with campag triple cranks in
particular (but possibly with other cranks as well).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and annoying for anything other than the steepest hills, IME.

No gear is annoying when you need it.

The annoyances are the large jump between middle and granny ring and impracticality and inefficiency
of medium-low gears when cassette is optimized for the middle ring and when middle ring is optimized
for cruising (and it really is nice to use the middle ring most of the time I find). It is annoying
to have to use the small-small gears when cycling moderate gradients. This would still be the case
with a 12-25 cassette.

I went to the trouble and expense of trying a 24T with two Campag triples, but went back to a 26T.
This was after gradually getting smaller and smaller grannies from originally using 32T and
benefitting from each change... until I found there is a limit afterall: 26T!

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't think most people would need it for most hills, except when touring, but you will have
so much overlap with any 9 or 10-speed cassette and those chainrings, that you could go with a
smaller granny and not lose a thing.

You do loose _practical_ moderately low gears. The problem is the 135mm BCD (130mm with Shimano
road). Wouldn't be so bad (in this regard) if a smaller than 39 or 38T middle could be fitted. A 36T
middle would help but I'm not certain a 24T would be ideal with that either.

The jump down from 38+T middle to 24T is crazy - both in terms of gear ratio and the physical drop
when the chain can easily miss the ring and come off unless a chain watcher device is fitted.

/snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'll probably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing steep hills fully laden.

Not needed if you get the 24. I would recommend the 12-25 with these cranks, and the smallest
granny you can fit.

A 12-25 is not good enough for the middle (38T+) ring for a tourer, IMO. It doesn't help that chain
angle from middle to 25T won't be very good. If chainline was good to the 25T then, as I mentioned
in a previous post, fair enough, a smaller inner ring could be more reasonable.

But in any case, I don't think there is much to be gained if the cassette only goes up to 25T. A 24T
chainring could indeed be useful for those who need the absolute lowest gears possible with Campag
(if they don't mind making compromises) - but that means using a 28+ rear sprocket.

~PB

rosco' reverse-the-following'ocsor_g said:

Quoted message said:

Not needed if you get the 24. I would recommend the 12-25 with these cranks, and the smallest
granny you can fit.

Quoted message said:

That was how I was leaning. The 12-25 seems to give you a very nice range in the middle chainring,

No it does not, IME, considering that the 25T from the middle ring won't be good to use extensively.
That is my main point. Even with a 36T middle, whatever the inner ring is, I'm sure most touring
cyclists would be better off with a 13-27+ cassette.

Since you can fit larger sprockets than 25, don't need very high or extremely close low gears on a
tourer, there's no great advantage to *not* using sprockets that go up to 28 or 30 teeth. If
anything, a 24T chainring would be more suitable to a lightwight road bike with a close-ratio
cassette - and in fact this is something that I might try one day - but I'm happy with a 26T on my
tourer with until I need the absolute lowest gears I can get (eg. if I moved location or entered a
special event).

Smaller grannies do make sense with compact cranksets - but these usually have significantly smaller
middle rings than 36T.

~PB

On the related point about rims, Ritchey makes a "treking" offset rim @ 23mmwidth. On another,
touring requires reliable chains, the favorite around here for 10sp is Sram HOLLOW PIN 89r @ 6.2 mm
and typically reliable. Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 rosco <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm getting closer to figuring out what to do with my touring bike (13

year

Quoted message said:

old Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road currently w/ Suntour XC Comp; 130mm rear spacing; 68mm bottom
bracket). My plan is to strip it down this winter,

and

Quoted message said:

send it out to be repainted and then rebuild it with a new drivetrain.

So

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

now some questions...

For a number of reasons, I want to go with Campagnolo Ergo brifters on

drop

Quoted message said:

bars and that drives a lot of the other decisions. Some have suggested

that

Quoted message said:

I rebuild it w/ Shimano for more widespread service capability in almost

any

Quoted message said:

city, but I just like the Campy Ergo better. I've read all the

discussions

Quoted message said:

on combining Campy Ergo and Shimano, but feel that if starting from a

clean

Quoted message said:

slate it's probably better to keep Ergo brifters/rear deraileur/rear cassette/rear hub all Campy
compatible. From a pratical standpoint, it

also

Quoted message said:

probably makes sense to do this as a 10 speed setup given the longer

spare

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

parts availability lifespan of going with what is current. I was

figuring

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48 and consider two rear cassettes possibilities: 12-25
(~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29 (~23.8 to

411.1

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gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to 98.1 gear inches. Does this sound like a
solid plan?

I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer components with sealed
bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum. From

my

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research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs have sealed

bearings.

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However, the White Industries LTA Campy cassette hub does have them.

Any

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comments on the LTA hub? Are there any other Campy hubs out there worth considering (I'm not
interested in fancy factory built wheelsets with proprietary or difficult to find spokes). The
rear deraileur would be a Campy long cage (although the medium cage would work if I only use the

12-25

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or 13-26).

I'm assuming I can go with a more flexible array of gearing on the front with the Ergo (vs. STI)
- is this correct? I'm looking at an ISIS based
110/74 bcd mountain bike crankset with 26-36-48 9-speed rings. A LBS is strongly suggesting I go
ISIS and not square taper if possible. The Raceface Turbine LP is one ISIS crankset
available in 170mm length which

can

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be configured like this. Any comments on this crankset or others which might fit the bill? Will
the Raceface 9-speed chainrings likely be compatible with a Campy 10 speed rear? How do you
determine which size bottom bracket is needed?The Raceface website says as a general guide,

"For

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narrow XC triple or double road - use a 108mm. For all around triple

ring

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setup - use a 113". Other than trial and error, is there a way to be

sure

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what size is right?

I've been wondering what to do for the front deraileur. I'm guessing

the

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Campy triple fronts are more optimized for larger chainrings (i.e.

30-40-50

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or 30-42-53). Shimano seems like they have several front deraileurs

whose

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specifications say will handle a 46 or 48 big ring (FD-M761 (XT), or

FD-M953

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(XTR)). Both are available in bottom pull. Would these be my best bet

for

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the front?

Many thanks for all comments/review of this setup for touring.

On a related point...

What rims would be appropriate for this setup? You often see off center rims mentioned as a
preferred setup with Campagnolo rear hubs in order to equalize spoke tension. I assume a Velocity
Aerohead OC will be a bit limiting as far as maximum tire size. The bike has clearance for real

wide

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700c tires (700c x 45), and I assume those would never fit properly on

such

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a rim.

"Bruni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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On the related point about rims, Ritchey makes a "treking" offset rim @ 23mmwidth. On another,
touring requires reliable chains, the favorite around here for 10sp is Sram HOLLOW PIN 89r @ 6.2
mm and typically reliable. Tom

Thanks for the reference to the offset Ritchey Trekking Rim. Kind of weird they only make these in
32 hole. Would think such a rim might be popular in 36 or 40 as well. For touring is 32 enough? Do
they figure the advantages of the offset design compensates for spoke count?

For a number of reasons, I want to go with Campagnolo Ergo brifters on drop

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bars and that drives a lot of the other decisions. Some have suggested that I rebuild it w/
Shimano for more widespread service capability in almost any city, but I just like the Campy
Ergo better.

Include a set of left and right ergo springs in the riding kit, and a right-hand spring-carrier,
and most of the servicing portability issues go away. I'll also comment that Ergos on a set of
Nitto mustache bars work like they were born there. If you don't spend a lot of time in the drops
in conventional bars, it's an option worth looking at.

From my

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research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs have sealed bearings. However, the White
Industries LTA Campy cassette hub does have them. Any comments on the LTA hub? Are there any other
Campy hubs out there worth considering (I'm not interested in fancy factory built wheelsets with
proprietary or difficult to find spokes).

As someone else posted, the veloce/mirage hubs are cartridge-bearing, and use a hollow cromoloy
axle. This gets you into the Campy parts catalog, as opposed to finding LTA parts in out-of-the-way
places. The

beyond working extremely well. I see them all the time with many thousand (seattle)miles on them,
working perfectly. A local trialist converted a set to bolt-on for his trials bike about three years
ago, and they're doing fine. Nuff said. It's also possible to put a small spacer under the LH axle
nut and decrease the wheel dish by a small amount. White hubs use a very small and inexpensive
cartridge bearing, and frequently the only place to get them is a bearing-supply house. Also, the
2mm setscrews in the bearing caps can be a misery with the addition of crud and a little corrosion.
This is likely to be an issue if you ride in a damp climate. I'm likewise underwhelmed by the fit
between the cassette body and the campy cassette. Quite loose. Ca 9s is going to be around for a
while, and as someone else pointed out, the shifters can be made 10s later, if Campagnolo continues
to provide the parts. CA-9 will also take a SRAM (Nee sachs) chain with the powerlink, and that is a
very nice thing. CA-9 is common, durable, and considerably less finicky to keep working well in the
field than Ca-10. And doesn't use single-install chain pins.

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I'm assuming I can go with a more flexible array of gearing on the front with the Ergo (vs. STI) -
is this correct? I'm looking at an ISIS based
110/74 bcd mountain bike crankset with 26-36-48 9-speed rings. A LBS is strongly suggesting I go
ISIS and not square taper if possible

The ISIS BB's have been getting steadily better, and I really like the idea of a competing
standard to shimanosoft, but none that I've seen have quite hit the "install and forget" mark set
by the Shimano sealed BB's or the Campagnolo AC-h's. Which is not to say that the UN's and Ac-h's
never develop creak, but when they do it's remove/regrease/reinstall as opposed to
remove/replace/roundfile. This probably means a Campagnolo or Shimano crank and ringset, but there
are worse fates. I also haven't seen competing chainrings that shift quite as nicely as either the
Ca or Sh rings. I have seen tandem cranks from FSA for the octalink BB's, which implies that they
do others, but I haven't seen them.

I've been wondering what to do for the front deraileur. I'm guessing the

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Campy triple fronts are more optimized for larger chainrings (i.e. 30-40-50 or 30-42-53). Shimano
seems like they have several front deraileurs whose specifications say will handle a 46 or 48 big
ring (FD-M761 (XT), or FD-M953 (XTR)). Both are available in bottom pull. Would these be my best
bet for the front?

Either the Campagnolo or Shimano (road) front derrs will work with a
26/36/48 setup, but neither is optimal. The gap between the rear of the cage and the chainring can
be larger than the spec calls for. how much so depends on the exact chainring sizes you run,
and the seat angle of the frame. They'lll work fine, just won't be quite perfect. If you're
going to use a Shimano front derailleur, se if you can find one that is the older design
(high-clamp, bottom-swing, traditional) as opposed to the newer (top-swing, low-clamp). Reason
being that the older design has many fewer pivots and a much lesser tendency to develop play
in them. The top-swing type will work just fine, but the cage is likely to be rattling in a
couple of years. I haven't tried a shimano mountain front derailleur with ergos, but the road
triple derrs give a substantially higher lever effort than the equivalent Campagnolo bit.

<on\anal-retentive wheelbuilder mode\> Rims? Mavic t-whatevers. Double-eyelet, machined
sidewall, welded seam, available in ceramic coating, very precise, what more do you need? Oh,
and they'll take a tire out to 700x37 comfortably. The velocity rims don't have a welded seam,
are nowhere near as precise, and don't use eyelets. <off\anal-retentive wheelbuilder mode\>

What are you doing for brakes on this endeavor?

Eamon Stanley

They indeed make it in 36. Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 rosco <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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"Bruni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

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On the related point about rims, Ritchey makes a "treking" offset rim @ 23mmwidth. On another,
touring requires reliable chains, the favorite around

here

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for 10sp is Sram HOLLOW PIN 89r @ 6.2 mm and typically reliable. Tom

Thanks for the reference to the offset Ritchey Trekking Rim. Kind of

weird

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they only make these in 32 hole. Would think such a rim might be popular

in

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36 or 40 as well. For touring is 32 enough? Do they figure the

advantages

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of the offset design compensates for spoke count?