Campagnolo Centaur 10sp Sloppy Shifting

Randall Schulz said:

Hi,

I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was fraying, but
when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to have
had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
seems that the shifter has developed some play.

The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
wise).

Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is it
likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?

Thanks

Randy Schulz

yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

jim beam wrote (in part):

Quoted message said:

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

Hasn't happened to anyone I know (many friends with Campy) or me and I
have four bikes with campy 10. Daytona (2 years), Chorus (6 years),
Chorus (1 year), Record (2 years). Tens of thousands of miles in all.

Happens all the time, huh? Nice statistical methods. One would think
I would have had it happen to me by now if it "happened all the time".

You dislike Campy with the same fervor that you constantly attack Jobst
- and it makes you look like an ass (or maybe the fact that you ARE an
ass makes you look like an ass).

D'ohBoy

D'ohBoy said:

jim beam wrote (in part):

Quoted message said:

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

Hasn't happened to anyone I know (many friends with Campy) or me and I
have four bikes with campy 10. Daytona (2 years), Chorus (6 years),
Chorus (1 year), Record (2 years). Tens of thousands of miles in all.

Happens all the time, huh? Nice statistical methods. One would think
I would have had it happen to me by now if it "happened all the time".

You dislike Campy with the same fervor that you constantly attack Jobst
- and it makes you look like an ass (or maybe the fact that you ARE an
ass makes you look like an ass).

D'ohBoy

Dear D'oh,

Peter Chisholm ("Qui si parl Campagnolo"😉 seems to agree with Jim that
the collar is indeed a frequent failure item:

"Each year we show Campag USA our little bag of broken EC-RE-111s at
interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of steel, not
carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare."

"Many things go south in STI, this is the only one that frequently
breaks in ERGO and is replaceable. Not ideal but not 'Bic
lighter-like' ala shimano"

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/b6c724dff95c8172
or
http://tinyurl.com/hbs2f

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Dear D'oh,

Peter Chisholm ("Qui si parl Campagnolo"😉 seems to agree with Jim that
the collar is indeed a frequent failure item:

"Each year we show Campag USA our little bag of broken EC-RE-111s at
interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of steel, not
carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare."

"Many things go south in STI, this is the only one that frequently
breaks in ERGO and is replaceable. Not ideal but not 'Bic
lighter-like' ala shimano"

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/b6c724dff95c8172
or
http://tinyurl.com/hbs2f

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl,

Has Peter done a controlled study of these failures? Are they rampant
- Peter C. says it's a "little bag" as you have quoted. What is the
failure rate? How did he collect his sample?

You don't know. Jim Beam doesn't know. Peter Chisholm doesn't know.
All he knows is that it is the most frequent (I am assuming) issue with
Campy Ergos.

Have you experience in the product reliability field? Oh, yes, you
are an english prof (with a masters). Certainly qualifies you as an
expert on product quality/reliability. Peter's evidence is at best
purely anecdotal and certainly not a properly obtained sample.

Yeah, Campy's spring carrier fails now and then. So? Is it an
epidemic? I admit Peter sees many more shifters than I do. However,
he may be suffering from the availability heuristic (as JB most
certainly is), i.e., that the ready recollection of a few strong
memories of a certain event creates the illusion of an overwhelming
trend.

I suffer the same problem as a Software Quality Engineer - I report so
many defects that I have trouble judging the overall quality of the
code.

Cheers!

D'ohBoy

Jim,

At Monday 03 July 2006 18:39 in rec.bicycles.tech jim beam said:

Randall Schulz said:

Hi,

I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and
derailleur that has developed shifting problems. ...

...

Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is
it likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? ...

Thanks

Randy Schulz

yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg

Quoted message said:

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

OK. Let's say that turns out to be the proper diagnosis in this case. Can
the part be replaced (not necessarily by me, thought) or must I replace
the shifter or some substantial portion thereof?

I once broke a spring in a Shimano MTB shifter and the mechanic told me
all he could do is replace the entire assembly. I made do without it in
that case--it was easy enough to retract the lever with my fingers as
part of the regular shifting action.

Lastly, how much should I expect to spend to rectify this problem? Or
should it be covered under warranty?

RRS

Randall Schulz said:

Jim,

At Monday 03 July 2006 18:39 in rec.bicycles.tech jim beam said:

Randall Schulz said:

Hi,

I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and
derailleur that has developed shifting problems. ...

...

Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is
it likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? ...

Thanks

Randy Schulz

yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg

Quoted message said:

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

OK. Let's say that turns out to be the proper diagnosis in this case. Can
the part be replaced (not necessarily by me, thought) or must I replace
the shifter or some substantial portion thereof?

it can be repaired/replaced - campy sell the parts. it's a bit tricky
to do though, so unless you have 3 thumbs and a good deal more patience
than i have, i'd give it to someone else to fix. call peter chisholm
and he'll sort it out for you.

Quoted message said:

I once broke a spring in a Shimano MTB shifter and the mechanic told me
all he could do is replace the entire assembly. I made do without it in
that case--it was easy enough to retract the lever with my fingers as
part of the regular shifting action.

that's shimano - different deal, and no parts available.

Quoted message said:

Lastly, how much should I expect to spend to rectify this problem? Or
should it be covered under warranty?

call on price. the part's cheap enough, it's the labor that costs.
warranty? doubt it. unless it's under a year old. again, talk to peter.

Quoted message said:

RRS

<jb wrote about my need to look at the pix>

Okey, yah, the design is less than optimal. But how bad is it? You
have no real numbers on the failures. Only Campy does and they have
decided that they aren't doing anything. I don't need to look at the
pix, I know it fails, I believe you.

And went on to misread me :

Quoted message said:

either way, if /you/ knew what you were looking at, you wouldn't defend the design

Not defending the design. And /you/ don't know anything about me.

And went on to comment:

Quoted message said:

and you certainly wouldn't descend into ad hominem.

I have been appalled by your naked aggression toward certain
individuals and their posting. The ad hominem is not intended to
support my POV, but rather some feelings I have had about you for some
time now. Just happened to come out in that posting.

D'ohBoy

jim beam wrote:
..

Quoted message said:

warranty? doubt it. unless it's under a year old. again, talk to peter.

Warranty is three years. Any metal left on that axe?

D'ohBoy

D'ohBoy said:

Quoted message said:

Dear D'oh,

Peter Chisholm ("Qui si parl Campagnolo"😉 seems to agree with Jim that
the collar is indeed a frequent failure item:

"Each year we show Campag USA our little bag of broken EC-RE-111s at
interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of steel, not
carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare."

"Many things go south in STI, this is the only one that frequently
breaks in ERGO and is replaceable. Not ideal but not 'Bic
lighter-like' ala shimano"

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/b6c724dff95c8172
or
http://tinyurl.com/hbs2f

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl,

Has Peter done a controlled study of these failures? Are they rampant
- Peter C. says it's a "little bag" as you have quoted. What is the
failure rate? How did he collect his sample?

You don't know. Jim Beam doesn't know. Peter Chisholm doesn't know.
All he knows is that it is the most frequent (I am assuming) issue with
Campy Ergos.

Have you experience in the product reliability field?

i do. and i know a thing or two about fatigue and its mitigation. this
design sucks.

Quoted message said:

Oh, yes, you
are an english prof (with a masters). Certainly qualifies you as an
expert on product quality/reliability. Peter's evidence is at best
purely anecdotal and certainly not a properly obtained sample.

enough of the puerile spew there kiddo.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, Campy's spring carrier fails now and then. So?

the "so" is that it's a trivial redesign to permanently eliminate this
major flaw. if campy want me to do it for them, i'll do it for free -
i've got 5 minutes to spare.

Quoted message said:

Is it an
epidemic? I admit Peter sees many more shifters than I do. However,
he may be suffering from the availability heuristic (as JB most
certainly is), i.e., that the ready recollection of a few strong
memories of a certain event creates the illusion of an overwhelming
trend.

all your personally limited data tells you is that you don't do enough
miles. that's hardly a basis on which to build a defense of an
indefensible design flaw.

Quoted message said:

I suffer the same problem as a Software Quality Engineer - I report so
many defects that I have trouble judging the overall quality of the
code.

you don't say...

Quoted message said:

Cheers!

D'ohBoy

D'ohBoy said:

<jb wrote about my need to look at the pix>

Okey, yah, the design is less than optimal. But how bad is it? You
have no real numbers on the failures. Only Campy does and they have
decided that they aren't doing anything. I don't need to look at the
pix, I know it fails, I believe you.

And went on to misread me :

Quoted message said:

either way, if /you/ knew what you were looking at, you wouldn't defend the design

Not defending the design. And /you/ don't know anything about me.

And went on to comment:

Quoted message said:

and you certainly wouldn't descend into ad hominem.

I have been appalled by your naked aggression toward certain
individuals and their posting. The ad hominem is not intended to
support my POV, but rather some feelings I have had about you for some
time now. Just happened to come out in that posting.

D'ohBoy

oh, this is about /feelings/. i'm /so/ sorry.

as for brandt, he does two things that provoke /my/ feelings.

1. tell us a good deal more than he actually knows - on subjects on
which /i/ know a good deal more than he.

2. he has the gall to defend his ignorance with ad hominem, despite his
glaring factual errors.

if some dirty vagrant walked into your living room and [censored] on your
sofa, you might feel a little indignant. that's how i feel when brandt
makes up fantasy [censored] stories about metal fatigue, deformation
theory, fracture mechanics, etc, etc. sure, dispute of the facts with
someone too stupid to know when not to defend the indefensible gets
ugly, but hey, materials are my sofa, and i'm going to do whatever i
need to do to prevent his pollution. if you don't get in the way, you
won't get hurt.

D'ohBoy said:

jim beam wrote:
.

Quoted message said:

warranty? doubt it. unless it's under a year old. again, talk to peter.

Warranty is three years. Any metal left on that axe?

D'ohBoy

from the campy web site:

***
"So, the Three Year Warranty does not mean that the products will
necessarily last three years?

Correct. Although some of our components can last a lifetime, some of
those same components might last less then three years depending on the
type of use and the maintenance which is provided."
***

so how far is that three year warrany going to get you?

D'ohBoy said:

Quoted message said:

Dear D'oh,

Peter Chisholm ("Qui si parl Campagnolo"😉 seems to agree with Jim that
the collar is indeed a frequent failure item:

"Each year we show Campag USA our little bag of broken EC-RE-111s at
interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of steel, not
carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare."

"Many things go south in STI, this is the only one that frequently
breaks in ERGO and is replaceable. Not ideal but not 'Bic
lighter-like' ala shimano"

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/b6c724dff95c8172
or
http://tinyurl.com/hbs2f

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl,

Has Peter done a controlled study of these failures? Are they rampant
- Peter C. says it's a "little bag" as you have quoted. What is the
failure rate? How did he collect his sample?

You don't know. Jim Beam doesn't know. Peter Chisholm doesn't know.
All he knows is that it is the most frequent (I am assuming) issue with
Campy Ergos.

Have you experience in the product reliability field? Oh, yes, you
are an english prof (with a masters). Certainly qualifies you as an
expert on product quality/reliability. Peter's evidence is at best
purely anecdotal and certainly not a properly obtained sample.

Yeah, Campy's spring carrier fails now and then. So? Is it an
epidemic? I admit Peter sees many more shifters than I do. However,
he may be suffering from the availability heuristic (as JB most
certainly is), i.e., that the ready recollection of a few strong
memories of a certain event creates the illusion of an overwhelming
trend.

I suffer the same problem as a Software Quality Engineer - I report so
many defects that I have trouble judging the overall quality of the
code.

Cheers!

D'ohBoy

"It is such a common failure that I recommend that anyone doing a
spring replacement have a spring carrier available."
--Paul Kopit

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/5e6469fc02ce973e
or
http://tinyurl.com/fa6ph

Randall Schulz said:

Hi,

I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was fraying, but
when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to have
had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
seems that the shifter has developed some play.

The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
wise).

Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is it
likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?

Randy,

I'll try to stay out of the war in progress between the other posters on
your thread.

Sure, it could be the innards of your Ergopower.

But before you embark on the task of getting parts for it, just confirm
that you've covered other possible causes for bad or noisy shifting:
- Worn chain and / or cassette
- Shift cable passing on wrong side of cable clamping bolt on your
derailleur. It should pass on the lower/inboard side of the bolt.
Unlikely problem though, if you've not played with this after the time
it was shifting well
- Bent derailleur hanger which causes derailleur cage to be out of plane
with cassette cogs. Happens if derailleur has been pushed in during
transport or fall.

The above checks will take about 5 mins. If they show nothing, then
borrow someone else's right Ergopower and test it.

HTH, Robert

Robert,

At Tuesday 04 July 2006 05:27 in rec.bicycles.tech Robert said:

Randall Schulz said:

Hi,

I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and
derailleur that has developed shifting problems. ...

Can anybody shed some light on this? ...

Randy,

I'll try to stay out of the war in progress between the other posters on
your thread.

Yes, it would seem I stepped into something, eh?

This is my first Campy-equipped bike, and I've decided I like it better
than the Shimano components I've had in the past. Apparently Klein (the
bike's make) stopped using them after the 2005 model year I have.

Quoted message said:

Sure, it could be the innards of your Ergopower.

But before you embark on the task of getting parts for it, just confirm
that you've covered other possible causes for bad or noisy shifting:
- Worn chain and / or cassette

The chain is, shall I say, a bit long in the tooth.

Quoted message said:

- Shift cable passing on wrong side of cable clamping bolt on your
derailleur. It should pass on the lower/inboard side of the bolt.
Unlikely problem though, if you've not played with this after the time
it was shifting well

Definitely not mixed up.

Quoted message said:

- Bent derailleur hanger which causes derailleur cage to be out of plane
with cassette cogs. Happens if derailleur has been pushed in during
transport or fall.

Definitely not a problem.

Quoted message said:

The above checks will take about 5 mins. If they show nothing, then
borrow someone else's right Ergopower and test it.

I should also point out that the problem appeared rather suddenly, which
seems consistent with a broken part.

In any event, I'm going to take it to the shop where I bought it and have
them take a look at it.

Quoted message said:

HTH, Robert

Thanks, everybody.

Randy

jim beam said:

Randall Schulz said:

Hi,

I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and derailleur
that has developed shifting problems. At first the symptoms--sloppy
shifting and a noisy derailleur--made me think the cable was fraying, but
when I looked under the cover of the shifter I found the cable was
completely intact. So then I thought perhaps the derailleur just needed
adjustment, but I found that I could not get an adjustment that allowed
smooth, reliable shifting both up and down. At the same time I noticed
that the rather stiff and distinct feeling that the shifter used to have
had become much mushier. Shifting is actually a lot quieter than it was
before, but in this case I don't think that's a good thing. It kind of
seems that the shifter has developed some play.

The bike has about 7000 miles one it (it's been a slow year, cycling
wise).

Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is it
likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? (And by the way,
are there any adjustments in the shifter, or only the derailleur?) Is
this sort of problem to be expected at this point in my bike's life?

Thanks

Randy Schulz

yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

For the OP, probably the post on the spring carrier-EC-RE-111, easily
fixed and Campag developed shoulders on the post and also a carbon
spring carrier for this reason.

For Jim...I guess when a STI lever fails ya just gotta send it in if
it's w/i the 2 or 3 yr warranty-and probably one of those who looks to
'update' to the latest and greatest, you are exactly what shimano is
looking for!!

Quoted message said:

D'ohBoy said:

jim beam wrote (in part):

Quoted message said:

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

Hasn't happened to anyone I know (many friends with Campy) or me and I
have four bikes with campy 10. Daytona (2 years), Chorus (6 years),
Chorus (1 year), Record (2 years). Tens of thousands of miles in all.

Happens all the time, huh? Nice statistical methods. One would think
I would have had it happen to me by now if it "happened all the time".

You dislike Campy with the same fervor that you constantly attack Jobst
- and it makes you look like an ass (or maybe the fact that you ARE an
ass makes you look like an ass).

D'ohBoy

Dear D'oh,

Peter Chisholm ("Qui si parl Campagnolo"😉 seems to agree with Jim that
the collar is indeed a frequent failure item:

"Each year we show Campag USA our little bag of broken EC-RE-111s at
interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of steel, not
carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare."

This was written by 'machannico di bici, methinks and as I mentioned,
Campag has improved the EC-RE-111 but it does on occasion still break,
I think the issue is when STI 'breaks', and it does , even 10s, lose
the lever for warranty or spend $150-$200 for a single new one, IF you
can find a single.

Quoted message said:

"Many things go south in STI, this is the only one that frequently
breaks in ERGO and is replaceable. Not ideal but not 'Bic
lighter-like' ala shimano"

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/b6c724dff95c8172
or
http://tinyurl.com/hbs2f

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

jim beam said:

Randall Schulz said:

Jim,

At Monday 03 July 2006 18:39 in rec.bicycles.tech jim beam said:

Randall Schulz wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I have a year-old bike with Campy 10-speed Centaur shifter and
>derailleur that has developed shifting problems. ...
>
>...
>
>Can anybody shed some light on this? Is it a matter of adjustment or is
>it likely that some parts are worn and require replacement? ...
>
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Randy Schulz

yes, it's the shifting collar or g-spring carrier, whatever you call it.

http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg

Quoted message said:

happens all the time. and i'm now 100% shimano for this exact reason.

OK. Let's say that turns out to be the proper diagnosis in this case. Can
the part be replaced (not necessarily by me, thought) or must I replace
the shifter or some substantial portion thereof?

it can be repaired/replaced - campy sell the parts. it's a bit tricky
to do though, so unless you have 3 thumbs and a good deal more patience
than i have, i'd give it to someone else to fix. call peter chisholm
and he'll sort it out for you.

Thanbk's fopr the pitch and I have only 2 thumbs and one has been
bent/dislocated for a decade...these are not hard to OVH...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I once broke a spring in a Shimano MTB shifter and the mechanic told me
all he could do is replace the entire assembly. I made do without it in
that case--it was easy enough to retract the lever with my fingers as
part of the regular shifting action.

that's shimano - different deal, and no parts available.

Quoted message said:

Lastly, how much should I expect to spend to rectify this problem? Or
should it be covered under warranty?

EC-RE-111 or 052 is $10, labor is $25 at Vecchio's..we generally
replace the shift springs at the same time($5 each-2 of them)-make a
couple of mods to a metal cover just over the spring carrier and to the
back cap-for $45-a new lever as we also take the front shift part off,
clean, lube...

Quoted message said:

call on price. the part's cheap enough, it's the labor that costs.
warranty? doubt it. unless it's under a year old. again, talk to peter.

Quoted message said:

RRS

[email hidden] wrote:
\

Quoted message said:

"It is such a common failure that I recommend that anyone doing a
spring replacement have a spring carrier available."
--Paul Kopit

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/5e6469fc02ce973e
or
http://tinyurl.com/fa6ph

I think I do more than paul and recently, after the shoulder thing, we
see less and have not seen a carbon one, the one that comes in 'Ultra
Record levers, break yet-these however need grease on the feet that go
into the bopdy, or they get sticky

For quality of code, I use number of defects detected divided by the number
of function points inspected. Issue is to know when to stop testing for
defects, for that I suggest you look to IEEE. Assuming a well designed test
plan and execution, I typically stop when the defect discovery rate fails to
less than 1 defect per 8 hours of testing. I hope that helps with your job.

With respect to the Campy shifter. I have three bikes and have found around
10k miles I need to rebuild the right shifter; never needed to rebuild the
left, even though I would think in 5.5 years using 10sp, it would be time
for one of them to have gone.

With respect to the collar, I had one fail, on 2000 Chorus, don't know if it
was because of early generation or a crash. All other repairs, including to
the Ultra 10, have just required new g-springs. I had a bike shop do it
once, first time, they did not clean the guts and the lever did not shift
great after the repair. I subsequently redid it myself including cleaning
and regreasing. It worked better than new.

"D'ohBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dear D'oh,

Peter Chisholm ("Qui si parl Campagnolo"😉 seems to agree with Jim that
the collar is indeed a frequent failure item:

"Each year we show Campag USA our little bag of broken EC-RE-111s at
interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of steel, not
carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare."

"Many things go south in STI, this is the only one that frequently
breaks in ERGO and is replaceable. Not ideal but not 'Bic
lighter-like' ala shimano"

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/b6c724dff95c8172
or
http://tinyurl.com/hbs2f

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl,

Has Peter done a controlled study of these failures? Are they rampant
- Peter C. says it's a "little bag" as you have quoted. What is the
failure rate? How did he collect his sample?

You don't know. Jim Beam doesn't know. Peter Chisholm doesn't know.
All he knows is that it is the most frequent (I am assuming) issue with
Campy Ergos.

Have you experience in the product reliability field? Oh, yes, you
are an english prof (with a masters). Certainly qualifies you as an
expert on product quality/reliability. Peter's evidence is at best
purely anecdotal and certainly not a properly obtained sample.

Yeah, Campy's spring carrier fails now and then. So? Is it an
epidemic? I admit Peter sees many more shifters than I do. However,
he may be suffering from the availability heuristic (as JB most
certainly is), i.e., that the ready recollection of a few strong
memories of a certain event creates the illusion of an overwhelming
trend.

I suffer the same problem as a Software Quality Engineer - I report so
many defects that I have trouble judging the overall quality of the
code.

Cheers!

D'ohBoy