in message <[email hidden]>, Simon D
(') said:After serious thinking M-gineering wrote :
Quoted message said:Simon Brooke said:I've got myself a pair of beautiful (second hand) Campag downtube
shifters, new style, non-indexed, to replace the Sachs-Huret shifters
on my winter bike. For each lever their are the following parts:
* one baseplate
* one large brass washer, inner diameter to fit frame boss
* one small brass washer, inner diameter to fit frame boss
* two conical clutch washers, inner diameter to fit fixing bolt
* one cover washer
The levers are similar to, but not identical to, the left-hand lever on
page 37 of http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares01-B.pdf although as
they're non-indexed the right hand lever is simply a mirror of the
left. Also, in mine, the lever core - the fifth, sixth and seventh
components from the left in the drawing - are already assembled into
the lever and I haven't felt the need to dig them out.
So what's the problem? The problem is that the fixing bolt unscrews as
the lever is used. I know that they always did this a bit, which is why
the bolt had the little butterfly head so that you could manually
adjust the tension on the clutch. But these are unscrewing dramatically
- three gear-shifts and they're loose, which, for non-indexed shifters,
is pretty much unusable.
From the diagrams it appears that the clutch washers should be wide
ends together, pointed ends apart. Can someone confirm this? Can anyone
give me any other hints to get these working? They're aesthetically
much nicer than the plastic Sachs-Huret ones, but the Sachs-Huret ones
worked better...
you're missing a thin black washer with a non circular hole, which
ensures that the outer cover washer will not rotate on the bos. Thats
what the small flats on the end of the shifter boss are for
You may well be right, but I'm not sure what you mean by this - are you
thinking about the later Synchro levers? As far as I can remember the
part that prevented rotation on the old Record levers which Simon seems
to have (from the Super Record days - early 80s - although there was
never an actual SR downtube lever as such) was a fairly thick white
plastic washer with two moulded flats to fit the boss (similar to the
part 7th from the left on Simon's picture). There was, I think, a quite
small black metal washer next to the wing nut itself, but it didn't
engage with the boss flats.
It sounds to me as though Simon has the plastic conical washers, but is
it possible that he's got two plain ones - without the flats?
Right: all the parts I've got (except the levers themselves and their
cores) are here:
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/tmp/p8040575.jpg
I've included both the top-hat pieces which I didn't mention in the
original post because I thought they were simply substitute bosses (they
clearly aren't). I don't understand these pieces,
The LH boss on frame (with the RH lever visible behind) is here:
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/tmp/p8040576.jpg
Warning: VERY big photos - but you should have enough detail.
This shows both sides of the lever itself (not very sharp):
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/tmp/lever.jpg
As you see
(i) there are no flats on the end of the boss.
(ii) all parts are metal
(iii) the lever has something assembled into its core, which is not
push-fit
The Sachs-Huret levers which I removed are plastic assemblies which are not
obviously dismantlable - remove the screw and the whole assembly comes off
the boss in one piece.
I had assumed that the top-hat-shaped parts were the ones that M-gineering
was referring to, but they don't seem to be. The bosses don't have flats
for the square slot in the top-hats to engage into, and if you put the top
hats onto the bosses as they are, then the clutch washers are physically
prevented from tightening against the lever, so it just flops.
Quoted message said:Simon - as you say, these levers were [censored]: they came loose pretty much
all the time, and certainly needed tightening every few gear changes.
That said, your problem does sound extreme. I haven't used them since
the mid 80s, but I do remember that careful lubrication helped, odd as
that sounds - you'd expect it to make the things slip more, but
reducing the friction between the washers actually seemed to improve
things. I *think8 I used Campag white grease, but it's been a long,
long time...!
Come to think of it, I remember this as well: grease, and then clamp up
harder to resist the slip!
I think, however (and I'm sure someone out there can confirm for me) that
I've simply got non-standard bosses. In which case I'm not really sure
what I'll do, but swapping back to the Sachs-Huret levers isn't
impossible. The thing is, I hope to replace this frame this winter, and
when I do I could be a little more careful to choose one with the right
bosses!
Quoted message said:I can't remember what I did with my old Record levers - it's just
possible that I have them in an old junk box somewhere. I'll try to
have a look this weekend in case you need parts, and so that you can
see the bits we're describing. If i've got them, you're welcome to what
I have, but I can't make any promises about still having them,
unfortunately.
Well, if you have I'd be grateful, but don't put any effort into it. This
is simple my commuting bike, so isn't hugely important in the first place;
and at some stage in the not-so-very distant future it[1] will get ergo
levers, at which point this exercise becomes moot.
[1] if it gets a new frame, does it remain the same bike?
--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; all in all you're just another click in the call
;; -- Minke Bouyed
