Buying a hardtail, need recommendations etc.

Morthane, I have gone through a lengthy search for a bike as you are currently. Our experience, requirements and feelings on the matter are very similar. I was leaning towards a Gary Fisher Tassajara. Then I went to a shop that rented bikes in a state park with good trails to try them out on. I tried out a KHS Alite 1000, Specialized Stumpjumper, Giant Rainier, and a couple others. I wound up opting for Kona. I determined early on that disc brakes are very desireable for me - not that I'm bombing down mountains, but they do add a lot more control and power under normal circumstances. Also, they work a lot better than calipers in wet or muddy conditions. To me, the Konas seemed very well made, equipped better than competitive offerings, sharp looking, and handle nicely. I opted for the Blast, instead of the Cinder Cone - not ready for clipless pedals, the fork on the Blast seems great and gets good reviews, could not rationalize the additional cost for the Cinder. The additional $200 plus didn't make sense for me to move up to a Cinder. IMHO, it's most significant value is that it's approximately 2 lbs. lighter than the Blast. I'm not at a level where I'll really see the difference. I'm certainly no expert on the matter, these are just my opinions and observations. However, based on our similar perspectives on the matter, I hope that you will find it worthwhile.

You live in Oregon, Kona is located in Washington. Kona bikes were designed in the PNW for riders in the PNW.

Linear pull rim brakes stop plenty well, and are good enough for most riders. But, there is no question that disk brakes stop better, so if it is in your price range, and you are not a gram counting obsessed rider, go with the disk brakes. It is expensive to upgrade to disk brakes afterwards (hubs, disk calipers, rotors, levers, lines and potentially new rims). In the muck and mud of Oregon, you will notice the advantage of disk brakes more then a rider from Arizona to be sure.

I would take the Cinder Cone over the Blast, the Blast has Shimano mechanical disk brakes, while the Cinder Cone has Hayes Hydraulics. That right there is pretty much worth the price of admission. Avid is really the only company that makes an acceptable mechanical disk brake, hydraulic is pretty much superior in every way. Plus with the Cinder Cone you get a Truvativ ISIS bottom braket and crankset, which will feel stiffer on steep climbs over the square tapered kind. The fork is a minor upgrade, thought the Marzocchi website does not list the difference between the two at the moment.

Pretty much everything else between the Cinder Cone and the Blast is even steven. LX rear derailleur is a minor upgrade over the Deore. Stem on the Cinder Cone looks a bit better, ect.

As far as the warrenty on the Marin goes, I would be skeptical. First off, taking your bike in once a week would be a pain. If they are at all busy, it could be a day or two to get your bike returned. Second, I abhor the words "limited warrenty" especially on mountain bikes. Basically, the warrenty covers manufacturers defects. 99.95% of all replacement parts are from breaking something from wiping out or wearing something out from normal riding, I am guessing neither of which are covered by warranty. I am also guessing to actually qualify for a warranty replacement would not be common, I just cannot see a company who is willing to replace your worn out chain every couple months.

My money is all over the Cinder Cone.

Cheers,
Juba

This is EXACTLY what response I was trying to garner, and I feel a lot better about my instincts on Kona. This is a large load off my back in worrying.

I forgot to look at the pedals themselves. Not really sure what "clipless" means, but I am not too hot on the idea of having to buy special shoes, as my feet are large and don't fit into some brand of shoes. I looked at a customized Specialized Rockhopper that had pedals that you could either use normal shoes or use special shoes.
Weird pedals aside, the reason I thought about the Cinder Cone over the Blast was because it was a choice between Hayes Hydralic HFX-9 XC versus Shimano Mechanical Disc BR-M465. Besides that and the pedals, there's just a difference of frame, some minor sounding stuff with wheels, and grips. 🙄

Still would like to know about the warranty, but I feel a lot more relieved.

EDIT: originally posted in reply to Ferdinand. Juba, thanks for another reaffirmation. With the Marin, I meant to say once a year, and not sure what it covers totally. In all, thanks 😄😄

Morthane said:

Not really sure what "clipless" means, but I am not too hot on the idea of having to buy special shoes, as my feet are large and don't fit into some brand of shoes.

You do have to buy a cycling specific shoe, which will have an extremely hard sole with 2 bolt holes. You bolt a cleat to the bolt holes. The cleat "clicks" into the jaws of your pedal, keeping your foot attached to the pedal. Twist your foot to the side to pop your cleat out of the pedal.

If you are riding mostly cross-country stuff, clipless is simply the ONLY way to go. After you get used to them (takes a week or two of falling over), I guarentee you simply be unable to understand how you managed to cycle with flat pedals and toe straps.

Add in the cost of a clipless shoe into your budget. It is something you will not regret.

Cheers,
Juba

Morthane, you may have already made up your mind but i thought I might tell you about my bike. I have a 2003 Giant XTC3 hardtail. It has Hayes hydraulic disc brakes and most of the components are shimano deore.

My personal opinion if you want it. I love my bike and unless anything else came along I would still go for a Giant as my next purchase (not for a while though)

Perhaps check out the Giant website. Hope this gives you a little idea.

Good luck

Hi Morthane. Like Fallguy, I would like to recommend/suggest a bike too. It's the Specialized Hardrock Pro. Yes, it has what you need. I've only the 2003 one. It's the same the Hardrock I currently have, except that it has more brake power and it's slightly heavier.But it won't affect your performance since Specialized gikes are so light in weight. The owner or that 2003 bike, and I always went out and do urban freeriding--with these bikes!! And surprisingly it can handle all the beatings including 3-feet drops and jumps. And there's one more thing you shoud know--we are heavyweight bikers!!! Now that you know how durable this bike is, maybe you should go test that bike out!

Also, I would like to say that mechanical disc brakes are fine to you,unless you are doing extremely crazy stunts that needs a lot of braking power (trials, downhill, etc.).There's also a lot of maintenance to do with it( I don't know, once every 3-4months?).

Hopefully you undersatnd. 😄

Good Luck!!!!

Comparing the Specialized Hardrock Pro Disc and the Kona Blast, I think they are identical for the most part. My Specialized dealer and Kona dealer happen to be the same person, so I will take a look.
After talking to people, it may not be that I need hydralic, but if I were to ever want them later it would cost me more than if I had just got them now, plus by jumping a bike up I get a few other added bonuses that look to be worth it (derailer, fork, etc). I also talked to a few dealers, and most tell me that hydralics are great provided you don't abuse the hell out of them, most problems arising from someone trying to use the brakes while the wheel has been taken off for storage or moving issues.

EDIT: also looked for the Giant XTC 3, but I believe it has been discontinued - their highest model was an XTC 2. I believe that at the price Giant is asking, a Kona Blast or a Marin Hawk Hill SE/Palisades Trail would provide more bang for the buck.

Morthane said:

I'm currently in the market for buying a hardtail, but let me first give some background:

Last Bike Used: The last bike I had was a Mongoose Hilltopper that my parents bought me in high school. Yes, it's terrible and I realize that. I'm done with that grade of biking.

Type of Biking I do: I plan on using my new bike offroad (logging roads, dirt paths, gravel, etc.). Living in Oregon (United States), we have a lot of rain, but I want to ride all seasons except for snow, of course. I like to push the bike a bit, but I'm not diving off the sides of cliffs. I used to ride a cheap BMX that I beat the hell out of by jumping curbs, small jumps and other bits of rough treatment, but I toned down after the Mongoose. However, if the new bike can take it, expect me to try it.

Type of market I'm looking at: I want a bike that is built with quality components and will treat me well provided I take care of it. I don't mind paying a bit more if it means that there is an upgrade that will make a significant riding difference, but I want to remain fairly thrifty - I mean, if I don't notice an improvement, then why spend another $100?

Bikes I have been looking at:
All bikes are 2005 models
Marin: Palisades Trail, Nail Trail
Kona: Blast, Cinder Cone
Haro: Escape 8.3 (don't know the price, so not really sure...)
Trek: 6700 (with disc brake option)

The hard details:
Average Price: $500 - $850
Brakes: Disc (mechanical or hydralic)
Derailers: Shimano Deore or better
Front Fork: 100mm travel

Wrap-up thoughts & why I haven't already made a purchase:
So far I really like the Kona Cinder Cone. I am under the impression that it's probably best to buy the good components now instead of upgrading over time (which I have heard ends up costing more).
I haven't already bought a bike because:

1. I don't know if I'm buying a bike that's better than I need. Can I get buy with just v-brakes, or am I going to regret not getting the nice hydralics? Do I need that good of derailers, or do I need better?
   
2. Like I said, I'm happy with what Kona has, but I have heard that my Marin dealer will give me a limited lifetime warranty on parts provided I bring the bike in once a week. If the Marin is as good as the Kona looked, I would go with them.
   
3. I'm not sure if there is some other stuff I should look at...
   

Sorry to be long winded, but I want to make a good purchase 😉

EDIT: Just noticed "Beginners guide to buying a bike and getting started", so will be reading that. Sorry if this was an unnecessary post.

have a look at Specialized Hardrock and Rockhopper series.

Morthane said:

I'm currently in the market for buying a hardtail, but let me first give some background:

Wrap-up thoughts & why I haven't already made a purchase:
So far I really like the Kona Cinder Cone. I am under the impression that it's probably best to buy the good components now instead of upgrading over time (which I have heard ends up costing more).
I haven't already bought a bike because:

Best thing to do if you plan on keeping the bike for a while is to get the BEST FRAME that you can afford. Then look at the forks and wheelset. These three items cost the most to upgrade (besides going from v's to disc brakes) and probably have the biggest influence on how the bike handles.

Things like derailleurs, handlebar, seatpost etc are cheap(ish) in comparison, and won't have such a large influence on how the bike rides