Burning rubber

Quoted message said:

Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
stays on a ~30% grade.

I've known the street become extremely slippery and greasy like that in
London. The particular stretch I'm thinking of is along Richmond High
Street where the tarmac is very smooth and worn, and there are buses
passing all the time. When it rains after a long dry spell the water
and the diesel on the road form a slippery emulsion. A couple of times
I've ridden along there wondering if my rear tyre has gone flat because
the wheel was sliding out from under me, and the wheel would certainly
spin under when moving off from a standstill. I'm sure the stunt in the
video could have been performed on such a surface. It looks to me as
though there is water on the road. Not a deep puddle, but a fresh film
after a heavy rain fall. If the road had been dry for a long time and a
layer of oil had built up, a brief but heavy shower could well have
produced the sort of surface required.

--
Dave...

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

>>> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids,
>>> but they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and
>>> not wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Cheers,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy
crashed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin
a rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white
rubber smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on
solid ice nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done
on smooth concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery
enough that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I
wonder how often this condition arises so that someone can make a
video of it.

Quoted message said:

Looks like sand to me. Supposedly the sand in the middle east is
much finer than the stuff we're used to, I'd imagine that a thin
layer of it might provide the right amount of traction.

As I mentioned, this appears to be common tat-mac on which fine powder
would not offer such a uniformly poor traction. The fineness of what
is being blown off by the tire is such that it remains airborne longer
than even talcum powder, which it is not.

I think this needs to be studied more carefully to make sense. In any
event, it is a great clip.

The sand in the Dubai is very fine indeed. It really is
more like talc.

--
Michael Press

On 18 Jan 2007 13:18:11 -0800, "dkahn400" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
stays on a ~30% grade.

I've known the street become extremely slippery and greasy like that in
London. The particular stretch I'm thinking of is along Richmond High
Street where the tarmac is very smooth and worn, and there are buses
passing all the time. When it rains after a long dry spell the water
and the diesel on the road form a slippery emulsion. A couple of times
I've ridden along there wondering if my rear tyre has gone flat because
the wheel was sliding out from under me, and the wheel would certainly
spin under when moving off from a standstill. I'm sure the stunt in the
video could have been performed on such a surface. It looks to me as
though there is water on the road. Not a deep puddle, but a fresh film
after a heavy rain fall. If the road had been dry for a long time and a
layer of oil had built up, a brief but heavy shower could well have
produced the sort of surface required.

Dear Dave,

Several posters have suggested water, which might work. Ice or frost
are also faint possibilities.

But I can't make out any stains on the back of his white robe.

Of course, the video quality is too low to make out details.

But still I'd expect to see a mess on the white robe if water (or ice
or frost) were being spun up in all those frantic sliding, low-speed,
wheel-spinning circles.

I do see something white thrown up by the rear tire. And I see whitish
streaks on the road. But it doesn't seem to carry around, as water,
ice, or frost would be carried by a wet tire.

So I'm leaning toward bleach or some other stuff that can be easily
added and easily practiced on.

The trouble with ice or frost is that it's likely to be so rare that
practice time would be severely limited. And I expect that it would
leave a mess.

A water-covered road is much easier to find for practice, but the
water ought to leave a large, dirty stain on the white robe.

Bleach (or something like it) on a rear tire (or on the pavement)
might produce the white "smoke" and the white smears, and it would be
easy to use for practice.

(Fine sand has been suggested, which might puff up like the white
"smoke," but I can't see how the sand would leave the white smears on
the road.)

Maybe that wild cartoon-like trick is easier than it seems, but that
fellow looks as if he practiced his stunt until he was ready to take
it on the road in front of a camera. He only puts his foot down once,
at the very end.

It's a bit like magic tricks. I always guess wrong when I try to
figure them out--which never surprises magicians. It won't startle me
if we eventually learn that the stunt involves neither frost, ice,
water, bleach, sand, or any other suggestion made so far.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

On 18 Jan 2007 13:18:11 -0800, "dkahn400" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
stays on a ~30% grade.

I've known the street become extremely slippery and greasy like that in
London. The particular stretch I'm thinking of is along Richmond High
Street where the tarmac is very smooth and worn, and there are buses
passing all the time. When it rains after a long dry spell the water
and the diesel on the road form a slippery emulsion. A couple of times
I've ridden along there wondering if my rear tyre has gone flat because
the wheel was sliding out from under me, and the wheel would certainly
spin under when moving off from a standstill. I'm sure the stunt in the
video could have been performed on such a surface. It looks to me as
though there is water on the road. Not a deep puddle, but a fresh film
after a heavy rain fall. If the road had been dry for a long time and a
layer of oil had built up, a brief but heavy shower could well have
produced the sort of surface required.

Dear Dave,

Several posters have suggested water, which might work. Ice or frost
are also faint possibilities.

But I can't make out any stains on the back of his white robe.

Of course, the video quality is too low to make out details.

But still I'd expect to see a mess on the white robe if water (or ice
or frost) were being spun up in all those frantic sliding, low-speed,
wheel-spinning circles.

I do see something white thrown up by the rear tire. And I see whitish
streaks on the road. But it doesn't seem to carry around, as water,
ice, or frost would be carried by a wet tire.

So I'm leaning toward bleach or some other stuff that can be easily
added and easily practiced on.

The trouble with ice or frost is that it's likely to be so rare that
practice time would be severely limited. And I expect that it would
leave a mess.

A water-covered road is much easier to find for practice, but the
water ought to leave a large, dirty stain on the white robe.

Bleach (or something like it) on a rear tire (or on the pavement)
might produce the white "smoke" and the white smears, and it would be
easy to use for practice.

(Fine sand has been suggested, which might puff up like the white
"smoke," but I can't see how the sand would leave the white smears on
the road.)

I think it might be sand b/c of this:
Assuming the sand is uniformly distributed on the asphalt that we see,
it's kicked up and moved to a different spot where there is already
sand. So the streaks are not just sand, but more and enough sand to
finally be seen on camera.

(kind of like how a tiny bit of coffee looks fairly clear, but filling
up the cup makes it look black)

\\paul

Paul Hobson said:

Quoted message said:

On 18 Jan 2007 13:18:11 -0800, "dkahn400" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
> after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
> stays on a ~30% grade.
I've known the street become extremely slippery and greasy like that in
London. The particular stretch I'm thinking of is along Richmond High
Street where the tarmac is very smooth and worn, and there are buses
passing all the time. When it rains after a long dry spell the water
and the diesel on the road form a slippery emulsion. A couple of times
I've ridden along there wondering if my rear tyre has gone flat because
the wheel was sliding out from under me, and the wheel would certainly
spin under when moving off from a standstill. I'm sure the stunt in the
video could have been performed on such a surface. It looks to me as
though there is water on the road. Not a deep puddle, but a fresh film
after a heavy rain fall. If the road had been dry for a long time and a
layer of oil had built up, a brief but heavy shower could well have
produced the sort of surface required.

Dear Dave,

Several posters have suggested water, which might work. Ice or frost
are also faint possibilities.

But I can't make out any stains on the back of his white robe.

Of course, the video quality is too low to make out details.

But still I'd expect to see a mess on the white robe if water (or ice
or frost) were being spun up in all those frantic sliding, low-speed,
wheel-spinning circles.

I do see something white thrown up by the rear tire. And I see whitish
streaks on the road. But it doesn't seem to carry around, as water,
ice, or frost would be carried by a wet tire.

So I'm leaning toward bleach or some other stuff that can be easily
added and easily practiced on.

The trouble with ice or frost is that it's likely to be so rare that
practice time would be severely limited. And I expect that it would
leave a mess.

A water-covered road is much easier to find for practice, but the
water ought to leave a large, dirty stain on the white robe.

Bleach (or something like it) on a rear tire (or on the pavement)
might produce the white "smoke" and the white smears, and it would be
easy to use for practice.

(Fine sand has been suggested, which might puff up like the white
"smoke," but I can't see how the sand would leave the white smears on
the road.)

I think it might be sand b/c of this:
Assuming the sand is uniformly distributed on the asphalt that we see,
it's kicked up and moved to a different spot where there is already
sand. So the streaks are not just sand, but more and enough sand to
finally be seen on camera.

(kind of like how a tiny bit of coffee looks fairly clear, but filling
up the cup makes it look black)

\\paul

Dear Paul,

Nice point.

When I looked at the video again, I still can't make things out for
sure, but the "smear" may be to the outside of the spinning tire,
which is consistent with sand.

And fine sand is more likely than water, frost, ice, or bleach.

There are large areas in the Mid-East and North Africa where the sand
is so plentiful and incredibly fine that it gets in anything that
isn't vacuum-sealed.

Whatever the explanation is, the fellow on the bike would probably be
laughing himself at our varied explanations.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Quoted message said:

On 18 Jan 2007 13:18:11 -0800, "dkahn400" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> [email hidden] wrote:
>
>> Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
>> after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
>> stays on a ~30% grade.
> I've known the street become extremely slippery and greasy like that in
> London. The particular stretch I'm thinking of is along Richmond High
> Street where the tarmac is very smooth and worn, and there are buses
> passing all the time. When it rains after a long dry spell the water
> and the diesel on the road form a slippery emulsion. A couple of times
> I've ridden along there wondering if my rear tyre has gone flat because
> the wheel was sliding out from under me, and the wheel would certainly
> spin under when moving off from a standstill. I'm sure the stunt in the
> video could have been performed on such a surface. It looks to me as
> though there is water on the road. Not a deep puddle, but a fresh film
> after a heavy rain fall. If the road had been dry for a long time and a
> layer of oil had built up, a brief but heavy shower could well have
> produced the sort of surface required.

Dear Dave,

Several posters have suggested water, which might work. Ice or frost
are also faint possibilities.

But I can't make out any stains on the back of his white robe.

Of course, the video quality is too low to make out details.

But still I'd expect to see a mess on the white robe if water (or ice
or frost) were being spun up in all those frantic sliding, low-speed,
wheel-spinning circles.

I do see something white thrown up by the rear tire. And I see whitish
streaks on the road. But it doesn't seem to carry around, as water,
ice, or frost would be carried by a wet tire.

So I'm leaning toward bleach or some other stuff that can be easily
added and easily practiced on.

The trouble with ice or frost is that it's likely to be so rare that
practice time would be severely limited. And I expect that it would
leave a mess.

A water-covered road is much easier to find for practice, but the
water ought to leave a large, dirty stain on the white robe.

Bleach (or something like it) on a rear tire (or on the pavement)
might produce the white "smoke" and the white smears, and it would be
easy to use for practice.

(Fine sand has been suggested, which might puff up like the white
"smoke," but I can't see how the sand would leave the white smears on
the road.)

I think it might be sand b/c of this:
Assuming the sand is uniformly distributed on the asphalt that we see,
it's kicked up and moved to a different spot where there is already
sand. So the streaks are not just sand, but more and enough sand to
finally be seen on camera.

(kind of like how a tiny bit of coffee looks fairly clear, but filling
up the cup makes it look black)

\\paul

Dear Paul,

Nice point.

When I looked at the video again, I still can't make things out for
sure, but the "smear" may be to the outside of the spinning tire,
which is consistent with sand.

And fine sand is more likely than water, frost, ice, or bleach.

There are large areas in the Mid-East and North Africa where the sand
is so plentiful and incredibly fine that it gets in anything that
isn't vacuum-sealed.

Whatever the explanation is, the fellow on the bike would probably be
laughing himself at our varied explanations.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Oops!

s/laughing himself/laughing to himself

s/laughing to himself/laughing himself sick

CF

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Hmmm . . .

"Throw a little sand on the street, put slicks on your bike, and it's
not too hard. When I was a kid, on my BMX bike, we used to do donuts
at the bottom of a street where sand would collect."

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=204967

CF

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm . . .

Quoted message said:

"Throw a little sand on the street, put slicks on your bike, and it's
not too hard. When I was a kid, on my BMX bike, we used to do donuts
at the bottom of a street where sand would collect."

Quoted message said:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=204967

Quoted message said:

CF

I didn't see any sand in the original video, only fine white dust
that, as I suggested, was possibly frost from the road that seemed to
be striped asphalt pavement, not smooth concrete that would enable
such a stunt.

Jobst Brandt

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I didn't see any sand in the original video, only fine white dust
that, as I suggested, was possibly frost from the road that seemed to
be striped asphalt pavement, not smooth concrete that would enable
such a stunt.

Given the location sand does seem rather more likely :-)

cheers,
clive

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm . . .

Quoted message said:

"Throw a little sand on the street, put slicks on your bike, and it's
not too hard. When I was a kid, on my BMX bike, we used to do donuts
at the bottom of a street where sand would collect."

Quoted message said:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=204967

Quoted message said:

CF

I didn't see any sand in the original video, only fine white dust
that, as I suggested, was possibly frost from the road that seemed to
be striped asphalt pavement, not smooth concrete that would enable
such a stunt.

Jobst Brandt

Today it snowed and while I was moving some of my bikes from one shed
to another, I decided to have a go at this burning rubber business.
After making certain there was no one watching as I was sure it would
result in an embarassing fall, I lay down on my bull-horns like Graham
Obree on my 48x18 fixed and started pedalling on my snow dusted lawn. I
didn't get very far, but lots of wheelspin! My attempt was by no means
anywhere near the results from the kid in the video, but I am confident
that with practice, snow dusted grass would be a suitable surface to do
this trick. The moral of the story is that I think there are many
different surfaces that this can be done on.

Joseph