Burning rubber

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl, it didn't work for me. I'm guessing you're talking about this vid:

--
Phil

Non-Squid said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl, it didn't work for me. I'm guessing you're talking about this vid:

Dear Phil,

Aaargh!

You're right. The /fs on the bad link seems to be a goof, possibly for
full-size. This seems to work:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but
they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not
wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy crashed.

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin a
rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white rubber
smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on solid ice
nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done on smooth
concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery enough
that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I wonder how
often this condition arises so that someone can make a video of it.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but
> they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not
> wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy crashed.

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin a
rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white rubber
smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on solid ice
nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done on smooth
concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery enough
that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I wonder how
often this condition arises so that someone can make a video of it.

It is conceivable but not likely that some types of tarmac topped with
simple water (the spray in the video) would be that slippery. Oily
tarmac
with water could easily be that slippery. Notice that the rider
is leaning forward to take weight off the rear wheel.

The surface is really secondary to the infotainment value of
the kid's skill on the bike. That's a pretty sweeeet move for a kid
in Dubai (?), not an easy one either. Not the most elegant-looking
thing, unlikely to cause widespread swooning among Dubai's
teenyboppers in its current form, but impressive.

Robert

On 17 Jan 2007 02:04:29 GMT, [email hidden] may have

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but
> they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not
> wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy crashed.

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin a
rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white rubber
smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on solid ice
nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done on smooth
concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery enough
that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I wonder how
often this condition arises so that someone can make a video of it.

It's just water.

It works, as you mostly got right, only because of the extreme weight
transfer forward (greatly unloading the rear wheel) and the fact that
the front wheel still gets enough grip on the asphalt surface to
prevent forward motion from taking over. On smooth concrete, this
wouldn't work. With a bike that had a much longer top tube, the rider
probably couldn't lean far enough forward to make the rear wheel load
light enough to come close to losing traction. The trick is to stay
just short of falling over forwards.

Long ago, when I was a lot lighter and younger, I performed a similar
stunt in the faculty parking lot of my junior high after a sudden,
intense rain shower; that's how I know that it can work. I don't
think I'd be willing to try it now, even for serious money.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Carl, it didn't work for me. I'm guessing you're talking about this vid:

crazy video.
reading the viewer comments reminded me of this:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/youtube.png

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but
> they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not
> wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy crashed.

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin a
rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white rubber
smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on solid ice
nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done on smooth
concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery enough
that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I wonder how
often this condition arises so that someone can make a video of it.

Jobst Brandt

Looks like sand to me. Supposedly the sand in the middle east is much
finer than the stuff we're used to, I'd imagine that a thin layer of it
might provide the right amount of traction.

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

I hope he doesn't strip his cog.

Joseph

Where's the hat rack said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids,
>> but they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and
>> not wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy
crashed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin
a rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white
rubber smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on
solid ice nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done
on smooth concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery
enough that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I
wonder how often this condition arises so that someone can make a
video of it.

Quoted message said:

It's just water.

Quoted message said:

It works, as you mostly got right, only because of the extreme
weight transfer forward (greatly unloading the rear wheel) and the
fact that the front wheel still gets enough grip on the asphalt
surface to prevent forward motion from taking over. On smooth
concrete, this wouldn't work. With a bike that had a much longer
top tube, the rider probably couldn't lean far enough forward to
make the rear wheel load light enough to come close to losing
traction. The trick is to stay just short of falling over forwards.

This is not water! There is no wetness on the bicycle, the rider or
spray coming off the tire as we know well from the stripe up ones back
without mud guard. As I mentioned, the faint white dust hovering over
the road (which seems to be conventionally rough tar-mac) is not water
not white rubber smoke usually accompanying motor vehicle "donuts".

Quoted message said:

Long ago, when I was a lot lighter and younger, I performed a
similar stunt in the faculty parking lot of my junior high after a
sudden, intense rain shower; that's how I know that it can work. I
don't think I'd be willing to try it now, even for serious money.

Oh pshaw! That is to much to believe without pictorial evidence
considering I've climbed steep streets (SF Filbert St. 31.5% grade),
leaning forward, in the rain, obviously without wheelspin.

http://tinyurl.com/2dywjd

Jobst Brandt

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids,
>> but they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and
>> not wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy
crashed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin
a rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white
rubber smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on
solid ice nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done
on smooth concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery
enough that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I
wonder how often this condition arises so that someone can make a
video of it.

Quoted message said:

Looks like sand to me. Supposedly the sand in the middle east is
much finer than the stuff we're used to, I'd imagine that a thin
layer of it might provide the right amount of traction.

As I mentioned, this appears to be common tat-mac on which fine powder
would not offer such a uniformly poor traction. The fineness of what
is being blown off by the tire is such that it remains airborne longer
than even talcum powder, which it is not.

I think this needs to be studied more carefully to make sense. In any
event, it is a great clip.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Where's the hat rack said:

Quoted message said:

>>> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids,
>>> but they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and
>>> not wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy
crashed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can spin
a rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you watch
carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and that the
rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That isn't white
rubber smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be possible on
solid ice nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could even be done
on smooth concrete strewn with sand although that might work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery
enough that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin. I
wonder how often this condition arises so that someone can make a
video of it.

Quoted message said:

It's just water.

Quoted message said:

It works, as you mostly got right, only because of the extreme
weight transfer forward (greatly unloading the rear wheel) and the
fact that the front wheel still gets enough grip on the asphalt
surface to prevent forward motion from taking over. On smooth
concrete, this wouldn't work. With a bike that had a much longer
top tube, the rider probably couldn't lean far enough forward to
make the rear wheel load light enough to come close to losing
traction. The trick is to stay just short of falling over forwards.

This is not water! There is no wetness on the bicycle, the rider or
spray coming off the tire as we know well from the stripe up ones back
without mud guard. As I mentioned, the faint white dust hovering over
the road (which seems to be conventionally rough tar-mac) is not water
not white rubber smoke usually accompanying motor vehicle "donuts".

Quoted message said:

Long ago, when I was a lot lighter and younger, I performed a
similar stunt in the faculty parking lot of my junior high after a
sudden, intense rain shower; that's how I know that it can work. I
don't think I'd be willing to try it now, even for serious money.

Oh pshaw! That is to much to believe without pictorial evidence
considering I've climbed steep streets (SF Filbert St. 31.5% grade),
leaning forward, in the rain, obviously without wheelspin.

http://tinyurl.com/2dywjd

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

Werehatrack stated that he was younger and lighter and riding around
in his junior-high school's faculty parking lot.

Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
stays on a ~30% grade.

The parking lot was certainly much flatter than Filbert, so
Werehatrack could lean forward much more effectively than you could
lean on a steep hill, thus putting less weight on his rear tire.

You've often mentioned how you have to lean forward just to keep the
front wheel from coming up on steep climbs, haven't you? Obviously
you're nowhere near as far of true forward on your climbs as the kid
sliding around in the video.

In junior high, Werehatrack was probably considerably lighter than
your ~180 pounds, putting even less weight on his rear tire.

So I believe him quite easily.

Incidentally, if someone had written the same sort of skeptical reply
to one of your posts, wouldn't you be demanding to know whether they
were calling you a liar?

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

-snip-
http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

-snip-

Quoted message said:

This is not water! There is no wetness on the bicycle, the rider or
spray coming off the tire as we know well from the stripe up ones back
without mud guard. As I mentioned, the faint white dust hovering over
the road (which seems to be conventionally rough tar-mac) is not water
not white rubber smoke usually accompanying motor vehicle "donuts".

Quoted message said:

Where's the hat rack said:

Long ago, when I was a lot lighter and younger, I performed a
similar stunt in the faculty parking lot of my junior high after a
sudden, intense rain shower; that's how I know that it can work. I
don't think I'd be willing to try it now, even for serious money.

Quoted message said:

Oh pshaw! That is to much to believe without pictorial evidence
considering I've climbed steep streets (SF Filbert St. 31.5% grade),
leaning forward, in the rain, obviously without wheelspin.
http://tinyurl.com/2dywjd

Yes, looks like fine blowing sand across a smooth surface.

On our New Year's Ride of 2005 we stopped at Wiggie's Bar for a shot and
started the return trip in a freezing sleet. The parking lot was glazed
and I was able to do much the same, after some encouragement by younger
riders, in just that way - by leaning over the bars to purposely unload
the rear wheel.

Yes, I agree you can sense and avoid 'too far' in the case of a wet hill
climb and sense how far is 'just enough' in special conditions* when you
_desire_ wheel slip.

[*] by "special conditions" I mean, for me, literally once in a lifetime.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

Where's the hat rack writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids,
>>>> but they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and
>>>> not wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
> penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy
> crashed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can
> spin a rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you
> watch carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and
> that the rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That
> isn't white rubber smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be
> possible on solid ice nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could
> even be done on smooth concrete strewn with sand although that
> might work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery
> enough that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin.
> I wonder how often this condition arises so that someone can make
> a video of it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's just water.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It works, as you mostly got right, only because of the extreme
weight transfer forward (greatly unloading the rear wheel) and the
fact that the front wheel still gets enough grip on the asphalt
surface to prevent forward motion from taking over. On smooth
concrete, this wouldn't work. With a bike that had a much longer
top tube, the rider probably couldn't lean far enough forward to
make the rear wheel load light enough to come close to losing
traction. The trick is to stay just short of falling over
forwards.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is not water! There is no wetness on the bicycle, the rider
or spray coming off the tire as we know well from the stripe up
ones back without mud guard. As I mentioned, the faint white dust
hovering over the road (which seems to be conventionally rough
tar-mac) is not water not white rubber smoke usually accompanying
motor vehicle "donuts".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long ago, when I was a lot lighter and younger, I performed a
similar stunt in the faculty parking lot of my junior high after a
sudden, intense rain shower; that's how I know that it can work.
I don't think I'd be willing to try it now, even for serious
money.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh pshaw! That is to much to believe without pictorial evidence
considering I've climbed steep streets (SF Filbert St. 31.5%
grade), leaning forward, in the rain, obviously without wheelspin.

http://tinyurl.com/2dywjd

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack stated that he was younger and lighter and riding around
in his junior-high school's faculty parking lot.

Quoted message said:

Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
stays on a ~30% grade.

I can't imagine what moves you to interpret that story, You weren't
there and he likened his feat to that in the video that he claims is
wet pavement. The rougher the pavement the less effect the water has.
The whole description begs for disbelief. Why don't you let him fill
in the blanks.w

Quoted message said:

The parking lot was certainly much flatter than Filbert, so
Werehatrack could lean forward much more effectively than you could
lean on a steep hill, thus putting less weight on his rear tire.

I suggest you try that, even for two pedal strokes before proposing
that one can do this. Review the video and see where you can see
signs of water. The way you go at this is reminiscent of my favorite
former metallurgist.

Quoted message said:

You've often mentioned how you have to lean forward just to keep the
front wheel from coming up on steep climbs, haven't you? Obviously
you're nowhere near as far of true forward on your climbs as the kid
sliding around in the video.

That's a part of his method but it does not work on wet or dry
pavement. If you can get someone to demonstrate that and offer it
here for us to view, I think credibility might improve, at least for
me.

Quoted message said:

In junior high, Werehatrack was probably considerably lighter than
your ~180 pounds, putting even less weight on his rear tire.

That makes no difference. Watch the smooth continuous sliding in the
video.

Quoted message said:

So I believe him quite easily.

I think if you were to try some of these stunts, you would see how
unbelievable they appear. The evidence in the video does not support
the wet pavement scenario. If you think so, please explain why.

Quoted message said:

Incidentally, if someone had written the same sort of skeptical
reply to one of your posts, wouldn't you be demanding to know
whether they were calling you a liar?

I would expect that if I were to make such claims someone might say
so. If you are concerned about my climbing steep streets I have only
a photo of riding up Filbert St. in sunny weather. We had no camera
on the rainy day. If you want to see that photo I can send you one.
First I would need to find that color print.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

While googling to see if anyone actually knew how the trick is done, I
found suggestions that the trick is bleach on the road or tire.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

Quoted message said:

Where's the hat rack writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids,
>>>>> but they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and
>>>>> not wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
>> penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy
>> crashed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can
>> spin a rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you
>> watch carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and
>> that the rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That
>> isn't white rubber smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be
>> possible on solid ice nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could
>> even be done on smooth concrete strewn with sand although that
>> might work.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery
>> enough that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin.
>> I wonder how often this condition arises so that someone can make
>> a video of it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It's just water.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It works, as you mostly got right, only because of the extreme
> weight transfer forward (greatly unloading the rear wheel) and the
> fact that the front wheel still gets enough grip on the asphalt
> surface to prevent forward motion from taking over. On smooth
> concrete, this wouldn't work. With a bike that had a much longer
> top tube, the rider probably couldn't lean far enough forward to
> make the rear wheel load light enough to come close to losing
> traction. The trick is to stay just short of falling over
> forwards.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is not water! There is no wetness on the bicycle, the rider
or spray coming off the tire as we know well from the stripe up
ones back without mud guard. As I mentioned, the faint white dust
hovering over the road (which seems to be conventionally rough
tar-mac) is not water not white rubber smoke usually accompanying
motor vehicle "donuts".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Long ago, when I was a lot lighter and younger, I performed a
> similar stunt in the faculty parking lot of my junior high after a
> sudden, intense rain shower; that's how I know that it can work.
> I don't think I'd be willing to try it now, even for serious
> money.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh pshaw! That is to much to believe without pictorial evidence
considering I've climbed steep streets (SF Filbert St. 31.5%
grade), leaning forward, in the rain, obviously without wheelspin.

http://tinyurl.com/2dywjd

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack stated that he was younger and lighter and riding around
in his junior-high school's faculty parking lot.

Quoted message said:

Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
stays on a ~30% grade.

I can't imagine what moves you to interpret that story, You weren't
there and he likened his feat to that in the video that he claims is
wet pavement. The rougher the pavement the less effect the water has.
The whole description begs for disbelief. Why don't you let him fill
in the blanks.w

Quoted message said:

The parking lot was certainly much flatter than Filbert, so
Werehatrack could lean forward much more effectively than you could
lean on a steep hill, thus putting less weight on his rear tire.

I suggest you try that, even for two pedal strokes before proposing
that one can do this. Review the video and see where you can see
signs of water. The way you go at this is reminiscent of my favorite
former metallurgist.

Quoted message said:

You've often mentioned how you have to lean forward just to keep the
front wheel from coming up on steep climbs, haven't you? Obviously
you're nowhere near as far of true forward on your climbs as the kid
sliding around in the video.

That's a part of his method but it does not work on wet or dry
pavement. If you can get someone to demonstrate that and offer it
here for us to view, I think credibility might improve, at least for
me.

I will try to take you up on your offer. Look for video evidence in the
coming days/weeks.

--
Phil

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but
they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not
wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

While googling to see if anyone actually knew how the trick is done, I
found suggestions that the trick is bleach on the road or tire.

Hence donning all the white sheets possibly, and not having to do with the
middle east?

--
Phil

Non-Squid said:

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel said:

> Where's the hat rack writes:

Quoted message said:

>>>>>> I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids,
>>>>>> but they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and
>>>>>> not wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/

Quoted message said:

>>> I suppose this picture is as mystifying to observers as the
>>> penny-farthing downhill where the tire flew off and the guy
>>> crashed.

Quoted message said:

>>> This video is not a motorcycle and no person I can imagine can
>>> spin a rear wheel as this rider does without a lubricant. If you
>>> watch carefully you will notice that the road appears frosty and
>>> that the rear wheel is throwing the icy debris around. That
>>> isn't white rubber smoke as with a motorcycle. This would not be
>>> possible on solid ice nor merely a wet road. I doubt this could
>>> even be done on smooth concrete strewn with sand although that
>>> might work.

Quoted message said:

>>> It takes just enough traction to be able to ride, yet slippery
>>> enough that when leaned forward, the wheel can be made to spin.
>>> I wonder how often this condition arises so that someone can make
>>> a video of it.

Quoted message said:

>> It's just water.

Quoted message said:

>> It works, as you mostly got right, only because of the extreme
>> weight transfer forward (greatly unloading the rear wheel) and the
>> fact that the front wheel still gets enough grip on the asphalt
>> surface to prevent forward motion from taking over. On smooth
>> concrete, this wouldn't work. With a bike that had a much longer
>> top tube, the rider probably couldn't lean far enough forward to
>> make the rear wheel load light enough to come close to losing
>> traction. The trick is to stay just short of falling over
>> forwards.

Quoted message said:

> This is not water! There is no wetness on the bicycle, the rider
> or spray coming off the tire as we know well from the stripe up
> ones back without mud guard. As I mentioned, the faint white dust
> hovering over the road (which seems to be conventionally rough
> tar-mac) is not water not white rubber smoke usually accompanying
> motor vehicle "donuts".

Quoted message said:

>> Long ago, when I was a lot lighter and younger, I performed a
>> similar stunt in the faculty parking lot of my junior high after a
>> sudden, intense rain shower; that's how I know that it can work.
>> I don't think I'd be willing to try it now, even for serious
>> money.

Quoted message said:

> Oh pshaw! That is to much to believe without pictorial evidence
> considering I've climbed steep streets (SF Filbert St. 31.5%
> grade), leaning forward, in the rain, obviously without wheelspin.

http://tinyurl.com/2dywjd

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack stated that he was younger and lighter and riding around
in his junior-high school's faculty parking lot.

Quoted message said:

Parking lots are often flat, badly oil-stained, and much slipperier
after a downpour than steep California side-streets--not much water
stays on a ~30% grade.

I can't imagine what moves you to interpret that story, You weren't
there and he likened his feat to that in the video that he claims is
wet pavement. The rougher the pavement the less effect the water has.
The whole description begs for disbelief. Why don't you let him fill
in the blanks.w

Quoted message said:

The parking lot was certainly much flatter than Filbert, so
Werehatrack could lean forward much more effectively than you could
lean on a steep hill, thus putting less weight on his rear tire.

I suggest you try that, even for two pedal strokes before proposing
that one can do this. Review the video and see where you can see
signs of water. The way you go at this is reminiscent of my favorite
former metallurgist.

Quoted message said:

You've often mentioned how you have to lean forward just to keep the
front wheel from coming up on steep climbs, haven't you? Obviously
you're nowhere near as far of true forward on your climbs as the kid
sliding around in the video.

That's a part of his method but it does not work on wet or dry
pavement. If you can get someone to demonstrate that and offer it
here for us to view, I think credibility might improve, at least for
me.

I will try to take you up on your offer. Look for video evidence in the
coming days/weeks.

Dear Phil,

Should be interesting. As I recall, you're significantly lighter and
younger than posters like Jobst, Werehatrack, and me.

In Florida, you'll have to try bleach on the rear tire or find a lot
of oily, water-covered asphalt, frost being scarce in your neck of the
woods.

I assume that you'll wear beach sandals instead of using clipless
pedals. 🙂

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but they
were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not wearing long
robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

While googling to see if anyone actually knew how the trick is done, I
found suggestions that the trick is bleach on the road or tire.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

IMO the "bleach burnout" thing is misunderstood by many.

In the early days of drag racing bleach burnouts were used to clean,
warm and soften the tire to improve traction. These days with better
tires a "water box" is used primarily to clean the tire off and the
burnout to heat the tire takes place forward of the water box.

Light oil, soapy water, shuffle board wax or dance wax on the surface
might be a better starting point to reduce traction for a bicycle with
its low horsepower engine.

For added potential fun try a Google image search for "fire burnout". A
bicycling video by the pre-Darwin Award folk might be in order ;-)

Marcus

Marcus Coles said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen videos of bicycle messengers doing rear-tire skids, but
they were always balancing delicately, going straight, and not
wearing long robes and sandals:

http://www.glumbert.com/media/drifting/fs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

While googling to see if anyone actually knew how the trick is
done, I found suggestions that the trick is bleach on the road or
tire.

Quoted message said:

IMO the "bleach burnout" thing is misunderstood by many.

Quoted message said:

In the early days of drag racing bleach burnouts were used to clean,
warm and soften the tire to improve traction. These days with better
tires a "water box" is used primarily to clean the tire off and the
burnout to heat the tire takes place forward of the water box.

Quoted message said:

Light oil, soapy water, shuffle board wax or dance wax on the
surface might be a better starting point to reduce traction for a
bicycle with its low horsepower engine.

Quoted message said:

For added potential fun try a Google image search for "fire
burnout". A bicycling video by the pre-Darwin Award folk might be
in order ;-)

Please, no extra homework. If you have a link, please list it.

The mechanism cannot be an oily or icy surface but rather one that has
reduced traction. Otherwise it's an instant flop as would occur on a
frozen lake for instance. This requires reduced traction as a frosty
surface could give, the tips of the asphalt pavement protruding to
give points of consistent traction.

At the end of the video, the rider is on the saddle and sliding
sideways, needing to put his foot down to stay upright. That is not
because there is no weight on the wheels that are fully loaded.
Leaning forward was necessary to make sure the front wheel had better
traction than the rear.

Jobst Brandt