broken clavicle...surgery or not?
- Thread starter James Thomas
- Start date
Cwego, yes I have a matching pair now. I'm sure to set off the metal detectors now (SS plate in leg, 2 Ti plates on collar bones).
sethmyhre, you kind of have to demand that a plate be put in.
Here's the deal.
So if you're wondering why they haven't given you the option, they are looking after you (and their liability).
Good luck
Aloha Chris
sethmyhre, you kind of have to demand that a plate be put in.
Here's the deal.
- Some doctors believe that if it ain't sticking out of your skin leave it. I'm told there's 97-97% chance of the bone healing fine. The problem with that thinking is that:
- The shoulder joint isn't in the proper position anymore so shoulder problems in the future is for sure.
- If you're in a semi physical job like mine (I drive a 65' tour boat at 20-22kts here on Kauai, kinda rough waters), then you'll have to wait the full 5-8wks till it heals before getting back to work.
- Some other doctors beleive that if it's displaced more than 1.5 cm plate it. This is usually from more active sports type doctor. My arguments to my latest doctor (not so physically active), FOR the plate was this:
- With the plate I will have a more normal shoulder joint structure/ alignment
- Although you can't lift anything too heavy (no more than 5lbs for 4wks or so), the bone gets to heal faster since the Ti mimicks bone in how it flexes and such. So for me, as long as I don't stress the area, I can still function at work and make money.
- The new plates from Acumed.net are fantastic. They are strong, but most importantly, they are pre-bent and erganomic.
- The arguments against plating are good ones, and none to just brush off w/o understanding them.
- Plating involves surgery. General anesthesia, while very common and they got it pretty down, there are problems that can happen like (very rare); brain damage, you might not wake up, etc. And of course when you get cut open, there's always a risk of infection. If you are a healthy individual w/ a good OR staff and surgeon, these risks are VERY SMALL.
- The chance that the bone doesn't grow back are higher, than if it's left alone. I was told 94-95% chance that the bone won't grow together. So you have about a 4% chance greater of a problem w/ the plate.
So if you're wondering why they haven't given you the option, they are looking after you (and their liability).
Good luck
Aloha Chris
ahinalu said:Cwego, yes I have a matching pair now. I'm sure to set off the metal detectors now (SS plate in leg, 2 Ti plates on collar bones).
sethmyhre, you kind of have to demand that a plate be put in.
Here's the deal.
I just told my doctor to imagine not being able to pay off your tuition/mortgage/bills. So for me it makes sense. If you work in an office, and you don't need to type or use the affected arm, then it doesn't make sense.
- Some doctors believe that if it ain't sticking out of your skin leave it. I'm told there's 97-97% chance of the bone healing fine. The problem with that thinking is that:
- The shoulder joint isn't in the proper position anymore so shoulder problems in the future is for sure.
- If you're in a semi physical job like mine (I drive a 65' tour boat at 20-22kts here on Kauai, kinda rough waters), then you'll have to wait the full 5-8wks till it heals before getting back to work.
- Some other doctors beleive that if it's displaced more than 1.5 cm plate it. This is usually from more active sports type doctor. My arguments to my latest doctor (not so physically active), FOR the plate was this:
- With the plate I will have a more normal shoulder joint structure/ alignment
- Although you can't lift anything too heavy (no more than 5lbs for 4wks or so), the bone gets to heal faster since the Ti mimicks bone in how it flexes and such. So for me, as long as I don't stress the area, I can still function at work and make money.
- The new plates from Acumed.net are fantastic. They are strong, but most importantly, they are pre-bent and erganomic.
- The arguments against plating are good ones, and none to just brush off w/o understanding them.
- Plating involves surgery. General anesthesia, while very common and they got it pretty down, there are problems that can happen like (very rare); brain damage, you might not wake up, etc. And of course when you get cut open, there's always a risk of infection. If you are a healthy individual w/ a good OR staff and surgeon, these risks are VERY SMALL.
- The chance that the bone doesn't grow back are higher, than if it's left alone. I was told 94-95% chance that the bone won't grow together. So you have about a 4% chance greater of a problem w/ the plate.
So if you're wondering why they haven't given you the option, they are looking after you (and their liability).
Good luck
Aloha Chris
Thanks bro. I'm going to look for a third opinion tomorrow. Here are some interesting links to studies on pins vs plates vs slings. http://www.aaos.org/wordhtml/anmt2004/poster/p285.htm
http://www.aaos.org/wordhtml/anmt2005/sciprog/208.htm
http://www.aaos.org/wordhtml/anmt2004/poster/p299.htm
http://www.aaos.org/wordhtml/anmt2005/poster/p239.htm
These are some complications of pin fixations.
http://www.aaos.org/wordhtml/anmt2005/poster/p385.htm
and one against surgery
http://www.aaos.org/wordhtml/anmt2005/sciprog/034.htm
You'll see that the problems they had were with the rockwel pins (sp?). These as I understand them are inserted through your skin and the immobilization is done externally. That is why they tended to have more skin issue and infections. What I got comes from http://www.acumed.net/product-detail.php?productID=27 (and yes I asked for it by name). This stuff is great. I have no issues wearing a pack or other issues with my plate rubbing or anything like that. It's because they're thin and they form to the natural curves of your clavicle.sethmyhre said:
That was some great reading (for someone w/ nothing to do
).Aloha Chris
Hi. I broke my Clavicle 2 years ago. I shattered it at the distal third (shoulder socket end) and snapped it off at the sternum. I've had 12 broken arms, both legs, nose, toes, fingers and ribs and this by far was the worst! After 2 months the bone had knitted at the sternum, although a small bump was left. The top end though was in bits with no sign of fissile tissue at all. I was given a special plate that apparently hadn't been used in Northern Ireland before. I screwed the two ends of bone together, with a chunk taken from my groin in between to try and promote growth. The plate then curves at the top and lines my shoulder socket also.
The worst bit initially is the groin. Far more painfull than the shoulder for a couple of weeks. Then the shoulder kicks in. All in all I was out of action for 10 months.
Is the plate worth it? Well I didn't really have a choice, but if It happend to the other side I would not take the surgery. I can always notice the plate. Seatbelts pull down onto the screw heads. Rucksacks are an issue. and there are days when it's just sore. Used to that with all the other breaks though!!
Although I don't like it and movement is restricted, you can live with it. I've just done a tour of Iraq. I still parachute. Race motorbikes. etc. Although if you're married then it can stop you doing housework, walking the dog, decorating etc. ;p
The worst bit initially is the groin. Far more painfull than the shoulder for a couple of weeks. Then the shoulder kicks in. All in all I was out of action for 10 months.
Is the plate worth it? Well I didn't really have a choice, but if It happend to the other side I would not take the surgery. I can always notice the plate. Seatbelts pull down onto the screw heads. Rucksacks are an issue. and there are days when it's just sore. Used to that with all the other breaks though!!
Although I don't like it and movement is restricted, you can live with it. I've just done a tour of Iraq. I still parachute. Race motorbikes. etc. Although if you're married then it can stop you doing housework, walking the dog, decorating etc. ;p
For what it's worth, my experience w/a broken collarbone - I didn't have surgery, and it healed with a knot around the break, but the doctor (at the time, more than, ahem, 25 years ago when I was racing MX) said at the time that it would be as strong or stronger than if I had surgery. And I see where some of you say it heals faster with surgery, but I was told it would heal faster without surgery - then again, maybe surgery *today* does make it heal faster.
I have pretty much full movement, with a tiny twinge of pain or discomfort when I really stretch my arm far back or whatever.
I have pretty much full movement, with a tiny twinge of pain or discomfort when I really stretch my arm far back or whatever.
cedjh9,codjh9 said:
Surgery has changed dramaticaly in the last 2 years in respect to clavicle surgery, and what is available. The reason I tout it so much is that it allows you to get back to work a lot faster. I did my first tour yesterday and that was 2wk+1 day after surgery and 2wk and 3 days after I broke it. The thing is; As you breath your broken collar bone will move, If you move a lot then it will take a lot longer to heal. If you have it well secured, then there is less motion (if any) and it allows the bone to heal faster.
There is no way I'd be back for another three wks at least if I didn't have surgery. For me that's like $2000.00, it's not doctors pay but it is a mortgage payment.
sethmyhre had a lot of good links to different studies that show that not putting the bones back in place misaligns the joint and causes things like "a tiny twinge of pain or discomfort when I really stretch my arm far back or whatever". As apposed to my left arm that is less than 6 months healed and the only I still have is a little twinge when I ride every day. But this goes away quick and it's less every week.
just my $.02
That's cool to hear that surgery makes recovery much quicker these days for a broken collarbone. But you must understand, when I was 17 or so and I broke the collarbone in a motocross race, the overriding (no pun intended) concern was 'how soon can I get back to racing?', not some piddly question like 'will the bone heal better, or feel better, in the long run'.ahinalu said:cedjh9,
Surgery has changed dramaticaly in the last 2 years in respect to clavicle surgery, and what is available. The reason I tout it so much is that it allows you to get back to work a lot faster. I did my first tour yesterday and that was 2wk+1 day after surgery and 2wk and 3 days after I broke it. The thing is; As you breath your broken collar bone will move, If you move a lot then it will take a lot longer to heal. If you have it well secured, then there is less motion (if any) and it allows the bone to heal faster.
There is no way I'd be back for another three wks at least if I didn't have surgery. For me that's like $2000.00, it's not doctors pay but it is a mortgage payment.
sethmyhre had a lot of good links to different studies that show that not putting the bones back in place misaligns the joint and causes things like "a tiny twinge of pain or discomfort when I really stretch my arm far back or whatever". As apposed to my left arm that is less than 6 months healed and the only I still have is a little twinge when I ride every day. But this goes away quick and it's less every week.
just my $.02
If you get surgery right after the injury happened, then getting back to full speed is about the same if not a little faster. It only took 5 wks and I was riding the trail no jumpin (small 2'ers yes but nothing bigger). 8 wks and I was launching all my regular stuff.codjh9 said:
hey,
Did you get a bone graft from your hip when you had surgery. My doc says I would need to do that to, which ismore daunting that opeing my shoulder.
TIM
---------------------------
If you get surgery right after the injury happened, then getting back to full speed is about the same if not a little faster. It only took 5 wks and I was riding the trail no jumpin (small 2'ers yes but nothing bigger). 8 wks and I was launching all my regular stuff.
Did you get a bone graft from your hip when you had surgery. My doc says I would need to do that to, which ismore daunting that opeing my shoulder.
TIM
---------------------------
If you get surgery right after the injury happened, then getting back to full speed is about the same if not a little faster. It only took 5 wks and I was riding the trail no jumpin (small 2'ers yes but nothing bigger). 8 wks and I was launching all my regular stuff.
My 16 year old son just had surgery done today on his left clavicle which he broke while racing motocross. It was a high impact fracture with at least three separate pieces visible on the X-ray. He was given a nerve block along with a sedative, but did not require general anasthesia. Surgery took approximately two hours, and we were allowed to bring him home an hour after that. The surgeon pieced the bone back together using a plate and screws, and reported that surgery went extremely well. He will be in a sling for six weeks - I don't know yet when he will be able to resume full activity. He fractured his RIGHT clavicle just about a year ago. That fracture was allowed to heal on its own with the use of a figure eight and a sling that he had to wear for eight weeks. Shortly after coming out of the sling he was playing HS soccer and refractured the same bone - another eight weeks of recovery. The right side did eventually heal completely and is fine now, but I am optimistic that the surgery on this break will provide better results. The info on this board helped me a lot in deciding to agree to the surgery.
hi there,
you have all freaked me out a bit. i was cycling through the sinai and blacked out, resulting in a broken collarbone as i fell off my bike. i am planning to "wait and see" but the quack mentioned surgery as an option because the break is so close to the AC joint. the sooner it mends the sooner we can continue on our world trip. what should i do?
you have all freaked me out a bit. i was cycling through the sinai and blacked out, resulting in a broken collarbone as i fell off my bike. i am planning to "wait and see" but the quack mentioned surgery as an option because the break is so close to the AC joint. the sooner it mends the sooner we can continue on our world trip. what should i do?
I find my left shoulder to be in pretty good shape after a year w/ the accumed plate. I had a good surgeon an I am very happy w/ results. Good luck, and healing vibes.dirty burger said:hi there,
you have all freaked me out a bit. i was cycling through the sinai and blacked out, resulting in a broken collarbone as i fell off my bike. i am planning to "wait and see" but the quack mentioned surgery as an option because the break is so close to the AC joint. the sooner it mends the sooner we can continue on our world trip. what should i do?
My son's surgery went extremely well and recovery has been smooth. We will be seeing the surgeon again tomorrow and he will be starting physical therapy. He wore a sling for seven weeks, and feels great now without it, but is still keeping to limiting his activities per doctor's orders because of the risk of popping a screw from the plate before the bone is 100% healed. Last year ( when he did not have the surgery) he went back to regular activities too quickly and ended up refracturing his right side and having to spend an additional six to seven weeks in the figure eight and sling. His fractures (both times) were extremely high impact because he was racing motocross at the time. His healing time might be longer than what others are saying because of the severity of the break. If I had to make the decision about surgery again for this most recent break I would definitely do it. His clavicle was in more than three pieces and would have taken a very long time to heal on its own. Good luck!
Can anyone offer some advice or opinion?
Broke my left clavicle about 7 weeks ago (single break about 1.5cm). The consultant pushed the surgery option due to the nature of the fracture and I had the plate and screws op 2 days later. All went well, no infection and pain reduced pretty quickly. Saw the x-rays before and after, and it all looked pretty neat. Started physio about 3 weeks later and took my lead from him as to how much I could move my arm/shoulder. I have a lot of mobility and range but it comes with a price, it can be sore all around my shoulder/back if I push it (my doc says you have to breakdown the tissue gunk etc and it comes with a price). I also had it x-rayed again after 4 weeks and they said they could see new bone growth around the fracture site. I am not due back for x-ray for another 6 weeks. Had a muscle spasm over the back of the shoulder blade and left a bit of a dip (muscle wastage) that hurts more than the clavicle.
However, when I do my physio exercises, I sometimes hear and feel clicking at the ac end (no more than other joints to be honest), my GP and physio have said it’s not a problem as the plate is solid. Generally the clavicle doesn’t hurt but the whole area, muscles and all can feel painful after physio.
1.Anyone experienced this?
2.What is the general prognosis for recovery from this bone surgery?
3.How long for the bone to totally heal,
4.Is it common for the plate to be removed?
Appreciate any feedback. Regards
Broke my left clavicle about 7 weeks ago (single break about 1.5cm). The consultant pushed the surgery option due to the nature of the fracture and I had the plate and screws op 2 days later. All went well, no infection and pain reduced pretty quickly. Saw the x-rays before and after, and it all looked pretty neat. Started physio about 3 weeks later and took my lead from him as to how much I could move my arm/shoulder. I have a lot of mobility and range but it comes with a price, it can be sore all around my shoulder/back if I push it (my doc says you have to breakdown the tissue gunk etc and it comes with a price). I also had it x-rayed again after 4 weeks and they said they could see new bone growth around the fracture site. I am not due back for x-ray for another 6 weeks. Had a muscle spasm over the back of the shoulder blade and left a bit of a dip (muscle wastage) that hurts more than the clavicle.
However, when I do my physio exercises, I sometimes hear and feel clicking at the ac end (no more than other joints to be honest), my GP and physio have said it’s not a problem as the plate is solid. Generally the clavicle doesn’t hurt but the whole area, muscles and all can feel painful after physio.
1.Anyone experienced this?
2.What is the general prognosis for recovery from this bone surgery?
3.How long for the bone to totally heal,
4.Is it common for the plate to be removed?
Appreciate any feedback. Regards
They should be trying to get the shoulder to be in a more "back" position (squeeze shoulder blades together and down a few times a day. Not too hard though).lazman said:
I experienced numbness in the shoulder, but it is slowly going away. If you displaced the collarbone by 1.5cm then it was a pretty nasty break (mine was .5 inches), so you prob hurt some other stuff that will take time. Shoulders are very delicate and they heal slow..
Good luck, healing vibes...
Hi Ahinalu
How you doing!
Its around 4 months since I had my left clavicle plated and we talked - its pretty good now, back to racing enduro bikes anyway - but i can feel the head of one of the screws under the skin. Can you??
Maybe this is normal as the bone itself is pretty close to the skin - right where the bone kinda kinks back (theres also a bit of a hole/dip here where the muscles dissappeared). I can feel the profile of the plate too.
Probably nothin to worry about but just wondered if you or anyone else has this too!
Regards
Craig
How you doing!
Its around 4 months since I had my left clavicle plated and we talked - its pretty good now, back to racing enduro bikes anyway - but i can feel the head of one of the screws under the skin. Can you??
Maybe this is normal as the bone itself is pretty close to the skin - right where the bone kinda kinks back (theres also a bit of a hole/dip here where the muscles dissappeared). I can feel the profile of the plate too.
Probably nothin to worry about but just wondered if you or anyone else has this too!
Regards
Craig
Cwego said:
Aloha,
I'm glad you're healing well.
Yeah, I got the same kind of thing. This newest one kinda didn't get screwed down all the way so it sticks up more than the other one. No pain or anything, riding already. I'm heading to Whistler tomorrow for 9 days!!! Woohoo!!!
It's just in time for cranworx, so it'll be cool to see the pros doing all the crazy $hit I don't
Anyway, got to get ready!!!
Aloha Chris
A few years ago me and my dad were mountain biking and while on a black diamond he took a jump needless to say he broke his clavicle. He had researched out this injury and came up with the name of a clavicle expert, one of many located in australia who was part of a team of doctors for their rugby league in australia, my dad contacted him, sent over his xrays and had a full evaluation of his injury and led him down the path of no surgery, while every doctor around us was pushing for the surgery. Needless to say, my dad came back with a full recovery but it did take quiet along time to have the ability to reach over his head and throw a baseball and what not, let alone riding a bike. The doctors around us said he would have to forget reaching over his head and playing sports, especially biking for some reason or another. But now he is in his 50's an he is still joining me on my road bike rides and mountain bike rides and we awlays re-visit that black dimond and he still has the hairs on his neck stand up. But anyways If it could help you out in any way, I will try to get the name and email of that australian doctor who would definitly be more then happy to help you out, him and his team evaluated my dad for free and even set up a phone meeting with him and the other doctors to discuss his situation.
ONLY use surgery as a last resort.
Atheletes will go under the knife more often than not due to the nature of their business - they want to spend as least time as possible away from training so the faster the recovery the better , but for us punters it makes no sense - your doc is right , it will heal better and with less complications without surgery.
I broke my clavicle playing rugby and all i did was put it in a sling for a few weeks and it was as right as rain.
Afterall , its a very common injury - surgery strikes me as overkill.
Atheletes will go under the knife more often than not due to the nature of their business - they want to spend as least time as possible away from training so the faster the recovery the better , but for us punters it makes no sense - your doc is right , it will heal better and with less complications without surgery.
I broke my clavicle playing rugby and all i did was put it in a sling for a few weeks and it was as right as rain.
Afterall , its a very common injury - surgery strikes me as overkill.
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