broken clavicle...surgery or not?

[Curb]

Ok, that's good advice and thanks; I'll have the PT contact either my primary or the orthopedic.

I saw the orthopedic 4 time over the 16 week period. He took x-rays after the surgery, after the 2nd and 3rd visit but not this 4th visit. So he took 3 X-rays all total except this final visit this past Friday.



And you right, there is more going own with me like, in PT when I do this small

weight training exercise of 1-2 pounds, I get tightness in the shoulder the afterwards until it loosens up, sometimes it still hurt the day afterwards, sometimes when we get a little aggressive in PT there is some mild pain but goes away and like I said I still cannot put my coat on properly when I reach around and insert the arm in the sleeve, I can do it but there is still a small impingement there and I don’t like it.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve progress considerable since the surgery but I can’t be messing around doing reps on my own with this plate in me. And as you know, proper technique in rehabilitation is the up most important at this time.

Go to your primary doc. Another alternative would be to talk with your PT, tell them your concerns, and have the PT talk to the ortho and/or your primary. Usually, if the PT thinks you need more help, the doc will go along with that.

As for the x-rays.....it's hard to say why the doc didn't take more x-rays. How many or how often did he take x-rays previously?

One thing that orthos sometimes forget is that the PT isn't just about healing a bone, it's also about regaining proper ROM and use, while avoiding the adoption of some incorrect compensatory movement. For many months after breaking my hip--also after shattering a leg a few years earlier--the PT and I worked on a proper gait, i.e. walking without a limp. Improper compensatory movements or adaptations can lead to further injury, new injury, or decreased use of the affected body part.

 

[Curb]

Oh yeah, I take all this advice and it's great. One of the things i really like is for guys and girls who have had the surgery and PT experience and share that knowledge. It really helps the newbie’s a lot.



Anyway when I told my PT guy the othro said not to come anymore he considered many ways to keep me coming back. He's a really great guy and a comfortable sitting but he has to make a living I suppose.

Remember this forum is open so one needs to make there own final decisons before taking actions on comments and opinions in these posts.

Thanks guys and please keep you comments and opinions coming!

Alienator,

Your forum name was quite well chosen on your part. If you read my posts you will see that I am quite pro PT. In my last post for example I wrote "I think the PT has been very helpful for me personally." In previous post I also wrote "I have found this [PT] coaching to be helpful." I continue to go to my PT.



Perhaps my comment on insurance was a bit over the top. I have often discussed the number of visits I need and the progress I have been making when I visit my PT. He is always quite happy with my progress. He generally reviews past exercises to make sure I continue to do them correctly. He has never had to correct my technique. As time has progressed the number of new exercises have dropped to zero. Yet, when my appointment comes to an end he wants to set a new appointment for the next week. This generally leads to a discussion about the majority of his patients. He tells me most of his patients don't or won't do the exercises unless they are in his office. Perhaps lots of visits are just habit on his part. After such a discussion he then very easily agrees to a longer period of time until my next visit. The day is coming when I won't see the value of further PT advice and coaching. Advice and coaching that I have stated many times have been and continue to be important to my recovery. At that time I will discuss it with my PT. I will be surprised however if my PT comes to that conclusion before I do.



Perhaps Curb's ortho has had similar experiences with other patients.



Curb,

As you have requested, I have tried to give you my opinion. You now know what others think of it.

 

[alienator]

It's possible that your orthopod with the first, second, and third post-op surgeries had a good feel for the rate at which you were healing and decided you didn't need to have any more x-rays beamed through your cells.

 

[Curb]

That's true because before the othero came into the room, I overheard the x ray tech say to one of the the nurses in the background saying something about they don’t do a certain number of x rays on patients after a number of visits… I just dismissed and thought they were talking about someone else.

It's possible that your orthopod with the first, second, and third post-op surgeries had a good feel for the rate at which you were healing and decided you didn't need to have any more x-rays beamed through your cells.

 

[horseRider]

Curb, I had figured out that there was the two methods, Plate and Pin. But didn't catch on that there were two types of plates. Thanks, it's always good to go in well armed. (no pun intended) Although my English husband has been saying I'm "fairly armless" since my accident. English clavicle humor.

Hummer, Wasn't it you that said you lived a good ways away from your PT? I also live out in the middle of nowhere and would have to drive 50 miles to the nearest PT so am concerned about this part of my recovery. Don't have time or money for all that gas! My location is the reason my Doc has been giving me exercises to do at home. We'll see what happens.

Oh, and BTW, from my knowledge I learned here, there are 2 types of plates and screws and one type of pin that gets inserted onto the bone to put them together. (you may already know this from reading these posts here)
Good luck and let us know when you get out of surgery.

 

[hummer]

Even if the PT office is just around the corner, they generally take appointments 5 days a week from 9 AM to 4:30 PM. Most of us have to continue making a living while we recover. As I have stated, I think the PT training and coaching are important to recovery. Take you PT's advice seriously and follow through on the schedule of exercises they give you. Office visits? What is the point if the routine is not changing? Your PT sould be giving you advice on when you should be increasing your workout between visits. Occasionally your PT should check your progress, but after the first little while the time between office visits should get longer. As I said in my previous posts, let pain be your guide with regard to the frequency of visits and the difficulty of your workout. My guess is if you push your PT you will find little resistance to increasing the time between office visits. This will be particularly true if it is obvious that you are doing your part at home.

Curb, I had figured out that there was the two methods, Plate and Pin. But didn't catch on that there were two types of plates. Thanks, it's always good to go in well armed. (no pun intended) Although my English husband has been saying I'm "fairly armless" since my accident. English clavicle humor.

Hummer, Wasn't it you that said you lived a good ways away from your PT? I also live out in the middle of nowhere and would have to drive 50 miles to the nearest PT so am concerned about this part of my recovery. Don't have time or money for all that gas! My location is the reason my Doc has been giving me exercises to do at home. We'll see what happens.

 

[Curb]

This is the type I got, it's from Acumed. I think it's the most durable. There is another type, it chrome and looks like it's easy to bend.
Check out the web site.
http://www.acumed.net/product-detail.php?productID=125
Also, my PT gut is 10 mine from home 15 minutes from work so this is not an issue for me. There are hundred of PT clinices in my locations.

Curb, I had figured out that there was the two methods, Plate and Pin. But didn't catch on that there were two types of plates. Thanks, it's always good to go in well armed. (no pun intended) Although my English husband has been saying I'm "fairly armless" since my accident. English clavicle humor.

Hummer, Wasn't it you that said you lived a good ways away from your PT? I also live out in the middle of nowhere and would have to drive 50 miles to the nearest PT so am concerned about this part of my recovery. Don't have time or money for all that gas! My location is the reason my Doc has been giving me exercises to do at home. We'll see what happens.

 

[celia123]

I believe you will well soon after that

 

[MADMANC]

Hi I Am New To This Site But Just Reading Your Post I Thought I Would Get In Touch. I Broke My Right Clavicle About Six Or So Months Ago (i Look Like I Have The Golf Ball Under My Skin ) I Was Told It Would Heel And Didnt Need Surgery. I Have Let It Be And Find That I Have More Or Less Full Movement The Only Thing I Find Is That Now And Again It Klicks And Hurts Abit. The Only Thing Is That Reading This And The Other Posts Is That I Have Been Getting Back Pain In My Upper Back Near My Sholders For The Last Five Or So Weeks And Its Driving Me Mad With Pain Does Any One Think That This Is Connected.

Cheers Madmanc

 

[Curb]

What do you mean?

I believe you will well soon after that

 

[lifting_in_CA]

i broke my lt collarbone during a motorcycle accident 4 years ago. with all the other broken and busted things with my body, i decided to let the collarbone (the least of my worries) decision go by the wayside. once my lungs, ribs, skull, and spine healed (2 years completely) i notice i had a huge lump in my lower trap area. the doctors confirmed that the non-union was fine as is and unless it casued me pain - let it be.

another year goes by and i am in the weight room and i during a shoulder press i dropped several hundred pounds to the floor because i had a shooting pain down my left arm. apparently, the bone ends had started to pinch off the axillary nevres that run underneath the arm pit.

i had the plate and pin surgery a few weeks later. five months goes by and i am again in the weight room and the bone re-breaks cause me an ambulance trip to the ER. the break was along a screw that was reportedly set to deep into my bone.

i am now at home recovering from the second plate & screw operation that included a hip bone graft (which is totally more painful then the shoulder). i wanted to share the importance of the skill of the surgeon as well as the need to follow rehab instructions.

 

[lifting_in_CA]

Mine didn't hurt too badly after the first few weeks, its more just restrictive in that I can't seem to lift heavy objects or sleep on my side etc.

The bones are still separated after six months and the Doctors think there may be a muscle in the way preventing them from rejoining and healing. This is why some cases do require surgery and some don't.

Hey - you guys who have had surgery - can I ask what the scarring is like??

Thanks!
Peta

8 inch scar from shoulder to neck.

 

[Curb]

Interesting, how much were you lifting the second time it broke?
How old are you. you heal quickly.

i broke my lt collarbone during a motorcycle accident 4 years ago. with all the other broken and busted things with my body, i decided to let the collarbone (the least of my worries) decision go by the wayside. once my lungs, ribs, skull, and spine healed (2 years completely) i notice i had a huge lump in my lower trap area. the doctors confirmed that the non-union was fine as is and unless it casued me pain - let it be.

another year goes by and i am in the weight room and i during a shoulder press i dropped several hundred pounds to the floor because i had a shooting pain down my left arm. apparently, the bone ends had started to pinch off the axillary nevres that run underneath the arm pit.

i had the plate and pin surgery a few weeks later. five months goes by and i am again in the weight room and the bone re-breaks cause me an ambulance trip to the ER. the break was along a screw that was reportedly set to deep into my bone.

i am now at home recovering from the second plate & screw operation that included a hip bone graft (which is totally more painful then the shoulder). i wanted to share the importance of the skill of the surgeon as well as the need to follow rehab instructions.

 

[horseRider]

Madmanc,
I have the same pain. My opinion...it is related. At the least in that I am not able to give that shoulder and neck a good ol' stretch like I can on the good side. I also believe that since I have to work to hold the bad shoulder up, so it doesn't sag, the muscles just get tired and ache.
Question: In your break do the ends meet up? Or is one above the other?
Mine do not meet at all. I can not give you a measurement of how far apart they are, but you can see space between them in the xray and one is above the other. I have learned from this thread that what I have is called a "non-union". My left shoulder is actually shorter than the good shoulder and lower. Without seeing my golfball size knot, you can easily tell that something is wrong just by looking at my shoulders. I don't care about the knot. I just want to be able to wear a coat without the weight of it causing me pain and to ride my horse again. And like the other guy said, "it just isn't natural" to go around with a broken bone!

I called my Ortho today and got my appointment bumped up to this Friday. I don't feel like waiting for surgery any longer than I have to. Four months is too long already!

Thanks again Curb! You are the bomb!

Oh, one more thing. Last time I was in to see my Doc, he asked me if I had re-broke it! How can you break it if it never was mended?

I Have Been Getting Back Pain In My Upper Back Near My Sholders For The Last Five Or So Weeks And Its Driving Me Mad With Pain Does Any One Think That This Is Connected.

Cheers Madmanc

 

[horseRider]

For those of you that have had the surgery (either Pin or Plate).
I have lived with my break for 4+ months and have more pain when the weather is changing. Do you still feel the weather after surgery and would you say it is better or worse?

 

[Curb]

Horse rider, if you read further down in these thread you will hear me complain about the weather. I ask a couple of questiosn and got some responses too.
I owe a lot of information from two of the regular guys in this forum name Alenatior and FeetorFish.

One thing about my body is that it's very sensitive. I feel everything. Not sure if that's good but that's the way i am.

For those of you that have had the surgery (either Pin or Plate).
I have lived with my break for 4+ months and have more pain when the weather is changing. Do you still feel the weather after surgery and would you say it is better or worse?

 

[MADMANC]

Hi I Mean Do You Or Any One Know If The Back Pain I Have May Be Connected To This Or Is It Just Something Lesle And Do You Think That I Should Go Back To My Gp For The Klicks Or Not Is It Something I Have To Live With.

 

[horseRider]

Well Madmanc, I am not a Dr. but anything is possible. As I said, I have the same sort of pain. Read in this link what the Mayo Clinic says about the veins that run under the clavicle. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/DS00800/DSECTION=1 I'm surprised you aren't seeing a Orthopedic specialist.

Hi I Mean Do You Or Any One Know If The Back Pain I Have May Be Connected To This Or Is It Just Something Lesle And Do You Think That I Should Go Back To My Gp For The Klicks Or Not Is It Something I Have To Live With.

I have had a sudden change in plans. My niece is having surgery at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester and I will be traveling there from Texas with my Mother this week. So, have had to change my appointment with my current Orthopedic Surgeon. However, am hoping to get an appointment with one of Mayo's specialists while I am there to discuss the possibility of having surgery. So, watch this space, I'll be back next week!​

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[MADMANC]

CHEERS FOR THAT LINK I WILL GET BACK TO MY DOC .PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW YOU GET ON

Well Madmanc, I am not a Dr. but anything is possible. As I said, I have the same sort of pain. Read in this link what the Mayo Clinic says about the veins that run under the clavicle. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/thoracic-outlet-syndrome/DS00800/DSECTION=1 I'm surprised you aren't seeing a Orthopedic specialist.

I have had a sudden change in plans. My niece is having surgery at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester and I will be traveling there from Texas with my Mother this week. So, have had to change my appointment with my current Orthopedic Surgeon. However, am hoping to get an appointment with one of Mayo's specialists while I am there to discuss the possibility of having surgery. So, watch this space, I'll be back next week!​

​

 

[horseRider]

I'm back from Rochester. I did try to get an appointment at Mayo but wasn't staying in that Arctic tundra (sub zero temps) long enough to get in. When I got home I went to visit with my Orthopedic Surgeon and told him my thoughts. He ordered an MRI which I got on Thursday. He hopes to see some healing going on that doesn't show up on x-ray. He is still not convinced that surgery is necessary. I hope to hear from him on Monday. I'll keep ya posted.