Breaks: Left vs. Right

"Robert Kiessling" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

Correct my if I am wrong, but the bicycles in this country seem to
have it the other way around: Right hand to front wheel, thus usually
more breaking force on the front wheel.

What's the reason for this?

Robert

http://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html

"Robert Kiessling" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

I suppose it's what you get used to.
I prefer right hand/front brake because I'm used to it but I also think that
for reasons of control I'd prefer my dominant hand to operate the front
brake and being right handed the UK convention suits me..
But like I said, it's what you get used to, if you normally operate a car
brake with your right foot in a manual attempts at using the left will
initially have you heading through the windshield but with a bit of practice
left foot braking in an auto is no problem.

my 2 euros,
Pete

apparently to do with the side of the road we drive on.
I use the continental way with no problem no matter which side I use.
Purely personal preference.

in message <[email hidden]>, Robert Kiessling

(') said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

Correct my if I am wrong, but the bicycles in this country seem to
have it the other way around: Right hand to front wheel, thus usually
more breaking force on the front wheel.

What's the reason for this?

When you're braking hard on a bike, the rear wheel has virtually no
traction, and so the back brake does no real good. You certainly don't
want /more/ power there. If you have more power on a wheel with very
little traction, you'll lock it, which is dangerous. Indeed, the top
Campagnolo groupsets have deliberately /less/ powerful brakes on the
back, and many mountain bikes will have larger disks on the front than
on the back - in both cases, to make sure that there's less braking
power at the back.

However, that's not the reason that British bikes have the front brake
lever on the right. We have the front brake lever on the right because
of TRADITION, which is the reason we do most things.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.

Robert Kiessling said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

Correct my if I am wrong, but the bicycles in this country seem to
have it the other way around: Right hand to front wheel, thus usually
more breaking force on the front wheel.

What's the reason for this?

We understand about braking?

James

Robert Kiessling said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

Correct my if I am wrong, but the bicycles in this country seem to
have it the other way around: Right hand to front wheel, thus usually
more breaking force on the front wheel.

What's the reason for this?

From Sheldon Brown's website:

Quoted message said:

Which Brake Which Side?

There is considerable disagreement as to which brake should be
connected to which lever:

* Some cyclists say it is best to have the stronger right hand
(presuming a right-handed cyclist) operate the rear brake.

* Motorcycles always have the right hand control the front brake, so
cyclists who are also motorcyclists often prefer this setup.

There are also observable national trends:

* In countries where vehicles drive on the right, it is common to set
the brakes up so that the front brake is operated by the left lever.

* In countries where vehicles drive on the left, it is common to set
the brakes up so that the front brake is operated by the right lever.

The theory that seems most probable to me is that these national
standards arose from a concern that the cyclist be able to make hand
signals, and still be able to reach the primary brake. This logical
idea is, unfortunately, accompanied by the incorrect premise that the
rear brake is the primary brake.

For this reason, I set my own bikes up so that the right hand
controls the front brake, which is not the norm in the U.S.

I also do this because I'm right handed, and wish to have my more
skillful hand operate the more critical brake.

How many days in a year do your comments about slippery conditions
really apply to?

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Tony Raven said:

From Sheldon Brown's website:

[explanation about proper breaking]

Thank you (and other posters), this is really helpful.

Quoted message said:

How many days in a year do your comments about slippery conditions
really apply to?

Back then it was during many days in winter months. It saved me many
times. Despite breaking carefully, the wheels do block. It's quite an
experience to slid 180deg with the rear wheel yet remain sitting, and
then continue driving the opposite direction 😉

My theory was that for emergency breaking situations my hands have to
be trained in one way. Two ways (one for normal and one for slippery
roads) wouldn't work since in those situations I'd react
instinctively.

However I'll rethink my ways, in particular since icy conditions in
London are indeed very rare.

Robert

I have been told it is illegal to sell a bike in the UK with the
continental brake config; it seems to be in Australia as well (although
mine was supplied continental without requesting it, and UK Decathlon
bikes seem to come as both depending on model)

Robert Kiessling said:

Back then it was during many days in winter months. It saved me many
times. Despite breaking carefully, the wheels do block. It's quite an
experience to slid 180deg with the rear wheel yet remain sitting, and
then continue driving the opposite direction 😉

That's because the back wheel locks up very easily and you are sliding
because it is locked. Easy to do on slippery off-road as well if you
brake too hard at the back

Quoted message said:

My theory was that for emergency breaking situations my hands have to
be trained in one way. Two ways (one for normal and one for slippery
roads) wouldn't work since in those situations I'd react
instinctively.

You need to train your hand to properly control the front brake,
whichever side it is on. Swapping sides is a bad idea.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

James Annan said:

We understand about braking?

If only. Instead it is (I was taught) because it is important to be able
to brake safely while signalling right (Which puts you in a more
vulnerable position). While I prefer using my right hand to control the
better brake, I've found that I mostly signal my intent and then stop
signalling once I'm in a position that I can control the traffic safely
enough.

Jon

Simon Brooke said:

We have the front brake lever on the right because
of TRADITION, which is the reason we do most things.

http://www.jelks.nu/misc/polis/5monkeys.html

Jon

Robert Kiessling said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

Correct my if I am wrong, but the bicycles in this country seem to
have it the other way around: Right hand to front wheel, thus usually
more breaking force on the front wheel.

What's the reason for this?

Robert

It may not be to do with braking but to do with setting up the rear
derailer.

If you use left hand to turn pedal and adjust derailer you can change
gear with the right hand. If the rear derailer changer was on the left
side of the bar this would be a more awkward manoeuver.
Sean.

Jon Senior said:

James Annan said:

We understand about braking?

If only. Instead it is (I was taught) because it is important to be able
to brake safely while signalling right (Which puts you in a more
vulnerable position).

You're probably right - my post was more a comment on the OP
than the brake arrangement...

Quoted message said:

I've found that I mostly signal my intent and then stop
signalling once I'm in a position that I can control the traffic safely
enough.

I rarely use a hand signal these days, relying on road positioning
instead.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

sean said:

It may not be to do with braking but to do with setting up the rear
derailer.

If you use left hand to turn pedal and adjust derailer you can change
gear with the right hand. If the rear derailer changer was on the left
side of the bar this would be a more awkward manoeuver.

Only and issue with twist shifters.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

in message <[email hidden]>, sean

(') said:

Robert Kiessling said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

Correct my if I am wrong, but the bicycles in this country seem to
have it the other way around: Right hand to front wheel, thus usually
more breaking force on the front wheel.

What's the reason for this?

It may not be to do with braking but to do with setting up the rear
derailer.

If you use left hand to turn pedal and adjust derailer you can change
gear with the right hand. If the rear derailer changer was on the left
side of the bar this would be a more awkward manoeuver.

Nonsense. If that were so why would bikes in France and Italy (including
racing bikes) have the front brake lever on the left? In any case with
downtube derailleur levers you can easily shift either lever with either
hand and indeed I almost always use the right hand.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars. Lusers are from Uranus.

in message <[email hidden]>, Robert Kiessling

(') said:

My theory was that for emergency breaking situations my hands have to
be trained in one way. Two ways (one for normal and one for slippery
roads) wouldn't work since in those situations I'd react
instinctively.

I think there is quite a bit of truth in this. Certainly I know of people
from the continent having 'over the bars' type accidents the first time
they use a British-setup bike, and vice versa. Probably it's best to
stick with the setup you grew up with, or else be /very/ careful when
you change to the reverse setup.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Our modern industrial economy takes a mountain covered with trees,
;; lakes, running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk,
;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey

Amazingly they still teach kids to do the wavy up and down arm signal
(with the right arm of course) when slowing down. In the UK this would
involve having to brake with the rear brake. I told mine to worry more
about braking and manoeuvering than signalling to any road users behind
who might happen to a. notice b. understand what the signal means.

In article <[email hidden]>, tmda-d-1125781161.0add62
@ro.bert.de says...

Quoted message said:

From home I am used to bicycles where the right break works on the
real wheel while the left one is for the front.

This makes perfect sense to me. Being right handed, it means that in
situations where I apply full force my rear wheel will use more
breaking force more than my front wheel. Which is pretty vital when
riding in winter on icy and slippery ground, where you really don't
want the front wheel to block.

Correct my if I am wrong, but the bicycles in this country seem to
have it the other way around: Right hand to front wheel, thus usually
more breaking force on the front wheel.

What's the reason for this?

Robert

I have my front brake on the left for the following reason:
The front brake gives most braking force and therefore gives most
control. The time I want most control is when I am putting myself in a
postion of most risk. For me, the position of most risk is turning right
across oncoming traffic, when I'm positioning myself just to the left of
the center line, signaling with my right arm and slowing down, so
logically my left hand needs to control the front brake.

Seems a good reason to me.
--
Colin

Coincidence is the alibi of the Gods

MartinM said:

Amazingly they still teach kids to do the wavy up and down arm signal
(with the right arm of course) when slowing down. In the UK this would
involve having to brake with the rear brake. I told mine to worry more
about braking and manoeuvering than signalling to any road users behind
who might happen to a. notice b. understand what the signal means.

I don't see a problem. The rear brake works perfectly well for a
planned, gradual stop, which is when the slowing down signal would be
used. It is also not difficult to then apply the front brake *after*
signalling. If you prefer not to use the rear brake at all, then simply
signal your intention to slow down *before* you start braking, or brake
a bit, then signal, then brake a bit more.

I use this signal every day and find it invaluable. It is a very
visible signal which, IME, the vast majority of motorists notice and
respond to. Many of them may not understand what it means, in which
case they tend to hang back to see what I'm about to do. Which means
that the signal has had the desired effect.

Yes, you should worry more about braking and manoeuvring than about
signalling, but my kids will still be taught about the importance of
clear signals.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine