Botton bracket installation question

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tcklyde
Hi, I'm installing a new Ultegra BB on my 2003 Giant TRC. I haven't been able to thread the nondriveside cup all the way flush with the BB Shell. There is about a milimeter of space between the cup flange and the shell. The axel turns fine. I could probably turn it a little tighter, but the resistence is already pretty strong and I don't want to break anything. Any thoughts?

There is no flange on the non drive side lockring.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
There is no flange on the non drive side lockring.

Great, thanks. You've helped not at all.

Look, I may be an idiot. I probably am. But my question remains. Do I need to push harder to secure the cup to the BB shell, or am I doing something wrong?

Boudreaux is correct there are no flanges on the bottom bracket, very hard to help if you can't explain your question clearly.

I believe that you mean that there are some threads still sticking out of the bottom bracket on the non drive side, is the drive side flush? or could th ewhole BB be slightly offset.

Note that tightening the BB will not affect the axle turning it is a sealed cartridge.

The Ultegra non-drive cup has a flange, or lip, with eight-notches. This "cup", or adaptor ring as Shimano calls it, presses against the bottom bracket body, keeping it tight. This flange does not press against the bb shell face.

The torque is quite tight for Shimano, as they recommend a range of 435-608 inch-pounds. If you are holding a wrench 6-inches from the axle, you will need to give a shove of about 70 pounds to get this.

See also Cartridge Installation

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Calvin Jones
The Ultegra non-drive cup has a flange, or lip, with eight-notches. This "cup", or adaptor ring as Shimano calls it, presses against the bottom bracket body, keeping it tight. This flange does not press against the bb shell face.

Cartridge Installation

There is NO flange on the non drive side of an ultegra caratridge. The drive side is flanged,and it butts against the BB shell face when properly tightened. The non drive side is essentially a threaded straight cylinder. Both sides have recessed splines that acecpt the installation/removal tool.It's possible for some threads to show on the non drive side when everything is properly installed and torqued,which is the key to the whole business.... There were howevr, cheap shimano cartridges that installed from the non drive side and therefore were flanged on the non drive side,but had the unflanged lockring cup on the drive side.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by PiledHigher


Note that tightening the BB will not affect the axle turning it is a sealed cartridge.

Even with a sealed cartridge, there can be binding if the BB shell is badly out of square.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tcklyde
Great, thanks. You've helped not at all.

Look, I may be an idiot. I probably am. But my question remains. Do I need to push harder to secure the cup to the BB shell, or am I doing something wrong?

Doing something wrong? I duno. I have known idiots try and install them from the wrong side. Pushing harder is not the answer.

I really get sick of the sort of oracles that can only stoop to be helpful if someone is asking the question *just right*. You probably know a lot. You probably know it all. I don't know if you are now or have ever been a shop mechanic but I'm sure glad you're not anyone I have to do business with. If you want to be helpful and you recognize someone isn't giving you enough useful or accurate information to give a useful response to *yet*, maybe you could ask a followup question, or simply describe what you know in a manner that would be enlightening. Returning serve back down the throat of someone that needs a little help is just obnoxious. If you really don't care about helping someone that starts a thread with a request for help, how about you just shut the **** up?

If anyone thinks I'm addressing just one person on this forum, that's incorrect.

People turning to other people with more experience, knowledge and skill for assistace and getting treated like grist for some misanthrope's ego mill...that's pathetic.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
There is NO flange on the non drive side of an ultegra caratridge.

Possibly there is no agreement on what is a "flange". The image below show what I was considering a flange on the Ultegra non-drive cup.

[IMG]parktool.comultegra4.jpgOpen ↗[/IMG]

(For some reason, it will not actually show the image, just a link to the image. I am not sure why, but you must click the link)

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Calvin Jones
Possibly there is no agreement on what is a "flange". The image below show what I was considering a flange on the Ultegra non-drive cup.


[IMG]parktool.comultegra4.jpgOpen ↗[/IMG]

(For some reason, it will not actually show the image, just a link to the image. I am not sure why, but you must click the link)

You are correct. Depends on which 'ultegra' one is talking about. The Octalink non drive side does have a notched flange. The un-72 square taper types don't. I just installed a un-72 yesterday, and that is where the brain cell was. Point is that the non drive side , when installed and tightened,butts against and secures the end of the cartridge. The flange on the octalink type will not necessarily but against the BB shell,when properly torqued.

First, I want to apologize to bourdeaux. Hours of frustration with this problem led my quick temper to errupt. It wasn't fair of me to belittle his advise.

It's probable that my inexperience installing any BB is the cause of this problem. So I'll try to restate: I have an 04 Ultegra Octalink BB. I'm installing on a Giant TCR 03. I threaded the BB into the drive side first. No problems. I then threaded the nondrive side cup, and was able to screw the cup to about about a milliteter within the edge of the BB shell. I was not able to screw the lip of the cup flush with the BB shell. Do I need to apply more torque (which I've been reluctant to do, given the resistence)? Or am I doing something undamentally wrong?

Bourdeaux, given your obvious experience, I appreciate your comments.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by tcklyde
First, I want to apologize to bourdeaux. Hours of frustration with this problem led my quick temper to errupt. It wasn't fair of me to belittle his advise.

It's probable that my inexperience installing any BB is the cause of this problem. So I'll try to restate: I have an 04 Ultegra Octalink BB. I'm installing on a Giant TCR 03. I threaded the BB into the drive side first. No problems. I then threaded the nondrive side cup, and was able to screw the cup to about about a milliteter within the edge of the BB shell. I was not able to screw the lip of the cup flush with the BB shell. Do I need to apply more torque (which I've been reluctant to do, given the resistence)? Or am I doing something undamentally wrong?

Bourdeaux, given your obvious experience, I appreciate your comments.

FWIW, and just for grins, I checked 3 of mine and installed one in a fresh frame (shell width was 67.5mm) . In every case, the flange did end up against the BB shell.That is a bit curious, considering that the older square taper types just used a threaded cupped sleeve designed to simply butt up against the cartridge. ...Apparently shimano in their wisdom has come up with a new twist, and maybe not for the better. But, think about how this works.The drive side installs first and is torqued to spec and the flange also bears against the BB shell face. The non drive side in the new octalink types apparently is designed to butt up against the shell and hold the catridge securely,even tho it may not be making hard contact with the cup as in past designs...Now think about variations in shell width and even greater variations in width due to facing,and you can see that the non drive side could butt directly against the cartridge, still be secure, and have some space between flange and shell.. The only other thing to check is to make sure there is no interference caused by a cable guide bolt sticking through the shell, or bad threads holding things up. Try just threading in the nondrive side all the way without the cartridge. IF it goes ,no problem. Then with the cartridge in place, and there is a gap when installed, it just says the non drive cup is bearing aganst the cartridge,due to a ledge on the inside of the cup and will go no fruther. If I had noticed a small gap on installing any of mine,I wouldn't have give it a seconds thought. If the spindle is turning freely, nothing is bound up and should be ok. ....Things were probaly alot less confusing with the older ultegra square taper that just used a threaded cupped sleeve, with no flange,which threaded in tight against the cartridge, and that was it....Use lots of grease in both sides,as I'm wondering if the new design is not in part responsible for alot of BB creaking that did not seem so common in the past.

wow you must be overwhelmed with the quantity not quality of replies
just simple thought
how far does the left hand non drive side cup screw in without the bottom bracket in place?
if won't go all the way in with the bb not installed that is as far as its going to go in any circumstances regardless of torque [or in this case talk]

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by greenpeter2001
wow you must be overwhelmed with the quantity not quality of replies
just simple thought
how far does the left hand non drive side cup screw in without the bottom bracket in place?
if won't go all the way in with the bb not installed that is as far as its going to go in any circumstances regardless of torque [or in this case talk]

Having tried several,and seeing that they are threaded all the way,and all seat with with the flange flush,probably a safe bet that is the way it's suppose to work. Simple matter for the poster to try without the cartridge. If it goes all the way, then with cartridge installed,it's obviously butting against it, and his question is answered. Pretty simple ...eh?