Bottom brackets

Finlay Mackay said:

Hello,

My bottom bracket has been making creaky and clicky noises; as this is
my first cartridge BB I wasn't entirely sure what this signified, but
my LBS say the bearings are knackered and replacement is called for.
Fair enough, I wasn't expecting it to last forever - but it's only
done about 1500 miles. Bloke in LBS suggested this was pretty good
going and they normally expect about an 8 month lifespan with daily
use - surely this can't be right?

Hello [back from hols!]

You should normally expect more miles than that. Over-tightening the cups
causes premature wear sometimes as the cartridge bearings inside get
squashed.

Quoted message said:

I don't want to be shelling out for a new BB every year, so my options
would seem to be getting a decent quality cartridge BB or getting a
cup and cone one, so..

Any recommendations for cartridge BBs with a decent lifespan?

I would just get another fairly basic one, eg. Shimano UN73. May not last
very very long, but only costs a few pounds and doesn't require any
maintenance while it does last. I'm not convinced that expensive cartridge
BBs last any longer.

Quoted message said:

Can I still get a cup-and-cone BB anywhere? I've had a poke about the
usual web suspects but even the BoB don't seem to have any.

I haven't specifically poked around for one for ages, but haven't
accidentally come accross one for ages either. If there was one, I think it
would either be a cheap nasty heavy thing or an expensive speciality.

~PB

Finlay Mackay fmackayatclaradotcodotyookay said:

LBS say the bearings are knackered and replacement is called for.
Fair enough, I wasn't expecting it to last forever - but it's only
done about 1500 miles. Bloke in LBS suggested this was pretty good
going and they normally expect about an 8 month lifespan with daily
use - surely this can't be right?

No, not right. My 1992 Dawes Galaxy is still on its original, despite
daily commuting for ten years, occasional use for five, and occasional
abuse of the complete-submersion type. That has a Shimano Deore LX (I
think - most of it was Deore LX) - but I don't know what that is now -
about 75% from cheapest to most expensive Shimano.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

On 09/08/2007 20:42, Finlay Mackay said,

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My bottom bracket has been making creaky and clicky noises; as this is
my first cartridge BB I wasn't entirely sure what this signified, but my
LBS say the bearings are knackered and replacement is called for. Fair
enough, I wasn't expecting it to last forever - but it's only done about
1500 miles. Bloke in LBS suggested this was pretty good going and they
normally expect about an 8 month lifespan with daily use - surely this
can't be right?

No, it isn't right. My commuter had a Shimano square-tapered cartridge
bottom bracket for 9 years. It was only changed about a year ago
because of a new crankset, and still ran smoothly and quietly - in fact
it was donated to another bike to replace the cup-and-cone BB that had
which was running rough, and presumably is still going strong. Your LBS
is trying it on.

Creaky and clicky noises can be anything. Presumably as you've taken it
into your LBS for investigation you aren't happy poking about yourself,
but if you could take the cranks off and turn the axle I would hazard a
guess that it would be smooth.

Creaks and clicks in that area are usually pedal threads in cranks or
cranks against axles. The first is easy - remove the pedal, clean the
threads in the crank and the pedal, re-grease and replace tightly. The
second means taking the crank arms off, cleaning everything up and
re-assembling. Opinions vary as to whether you should use grease or
not. I did, but some people say you can crack the crank doing that.
I've had a cracked crank - draw your own conclusions :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:42:22 +0100, Finlay Mackay

fmackayatclaradotcodotyookay said:

Any recommendations for cartridge BBs with a decent lifespan?

I can only comment on what I use

My audax bike has done 21500 miles on a Royce Titanium Axle bottom bracket. No
signs of any problems yet.

My commuting bike recently needed its Shimano bottom bracket (UN71 ??) after
quite a few miles. I replaced it with TA Axix Light. It is too early to say
how long this will last but it uses standard cartridge bearings. When this BB
plays up I will just need to exchange them. Provided I have not damaged the
axle it will cost £10 to make it like new.

Paul Boyd said:

On 09/08/2007 20:42, Finlay Mackay said,

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My bottom bracket has been making creaky and clicky noises; as this is
my first cartridge BB I wasn't entirely sure what this signified, but my
LBS say the bearings are knackered and replacement is called for. Fair
enough, I wasn't expecting it to last forever - but it's only done about
1500 miles. Bloke in LBS suggested this was pretty good going and they
normally expect about an 8 month lifespan with daily use - surely this
can't be right?

No, it isn't right. My commuter had a Shimano square-tapered cartridge
bottom bracket for 9 years. It was only changed about a year ago
because of a new crankset, and still ran smoothly and quietly - in fact
it was donated to another bike to replace the cup-and-cone BB that had
which was running rough, and presumably is still going strong. Your LBS
is trying it on.

Creaky and clicky noises can be anything. Presumably as you've taken it
into your LBS for investigation you aren't happy poking about yourself,
but if you could take the cranks off and turn the axle I would hazard a
guess that it would be smooth.

I suspect it would - the symptoms are unlike those with worn bearings in
a cup-and-cone BB, where you can rattle the crank from side to side
easily. It takes a fair bit of force (say, pushing down on the pedals
when setting off in an inappropriately high gear level of force) to
elicit a click, then pushing in the other direction will make it click
back. The effect is more pronounced when the cranks are close to
vertical. I've just had a go at measuring whether the cranks actually
move (ie wrt the plane of the main tubes) - not more than 0.2mm if at all.

Quoted message said:

Creaks and clicks in that area are usually pedal threads in cranks or
cranks against axles. The first is easy - remove the pedal, clean the
threads in the crank and the pedal, re-grease and replace tightly. The
second means taking the crank arms off, cleaning everything up and
re-assembling. Opinions vary as to whether you should use grease or
not. I did, but some people say you can crack the crank doing that.
I've had a cracked crank - draw your own conclusions :-)

It's definitely not the pedals; I'll try refitting the cranks.

thanks,

Finlay

Finlay Mackay said:

Paul Boyd said:

On 09/08/2007 20:42, Finlay Mackay said,

Quoted message said:

Hello,

My bottom bracket has been making creaky and clicky noises; as this
is my first cartridge BB I wasn't entirely sure what this
signified, but my LBS say the bearings are knackered and
replacement is called for. Fair enough, I wasn't expecting it to
last forever - but it's only done about 1500 miles. Bloke in LBS
suggested this was pretty good going and they normally expect about
an 8 month lifespan with daily use - surely this can't be right?

No, it isn't right. My commuter had a Shimano square-tapered
cartridge bottom bracket for 9 years. It was only changed about a
year ago because of a new crankset, and still ran smoothly and
quietly - in fact it was donated to another bike to replace the
cup-and-cone BB that had which was running rough, and presumably is
still going strong. Your LBS is trying it on.

Creaky and clicky noises can be anything. Presumably as you've
taken it into your LBS for investigation you aren't happy poking
about yourself, but if you could take the cranks off and turn the
axle I would hazard a guess that it would be smooth.

I suspect it would - the symptoms are unlike those with worn bearings
in a cup-and-cone BB, where you can rattle the crank from side to side
easily.

You also get those symptoms with a cartidge BB when the bearings are worn.
The BB doesn't need replacing if there is no play like that and no bad
roughness.

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Finlay Mackay

fmackayatclaradotcodotyookay ('') said:

Hello,

My bottom bracket has been making creaky and clicky noises; as this is
my first cartridge BB I wasn't entirely sure what this signified, but my
LBS say the bearings are knackered and replacement is called for. Fair
enough, I wasn't expecting it to last forever - but it's only done about
1500 miles. Bloke in LBS suggested this was pretty good going and they
normally expect about an 8 month lifespan with daily use - surely this
can't be right?

Depends what sort of life.

Bottom bearings on jump bikes and hardtail mountain bikes don't tend to
last long, since every time you go over a serious bump or land a
reasonable jump they take a lot of impact. But I'd expect a quality bottom
bracket on a road bike to last of the order of 12,000-20,000 miles.

Quoted message said:

It's a Shimano-type square-taper BB btw, from a fitting-my-cranks
point of view.

Ah, Shimano. No, replace it every year :-)

Seriously, I don't think Shimano make good quality square taper BBs any
more (and I should probably stock up on a couple of Campag ones, since
they're phasing out square taper too). All the high quality Shimano groups
have gone onto Octalink or Hollowtech II.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

Pete Biggs said:

Finlay Mackay said:

Paul Boyd said:

On 09/08/2007 20:42, Finlay Mackay said,
> Hello,
>
> My bottom bracket has been making creaky and clicky noises; as this
> is my first cartridge BB I wasn't entirely sure what this
> signified, but my LBS say the bearings are knackered and
> replacement is called for. Fair enough, I wasn't expecting it to
> last forever - but it's only done about 1500 miles. Bloke in LBS
> suggested this was pretty good going and they normally expect about
> an 8 month lifespan with daily use - surely this can't be right?

No, it isn't right. My commuter had a Shimano square-tapered
cartridge bottom bracket for 9 years. It was only changed about a
year ago because of a new crankset, and still ran smoothly and
quietly - in fact it was donated to another bike to replace the
cup-and-cone BB that had which was running rough, and presumably is
still going strong. Your LBS is trying it on.

Creaky and clicky noises can be anything. Presumably as you've
taken it into your LBS for investigation you aren't happy poking
about yourself, but if you could take the cranks off and turn the
axle I would hazard a guess that it would be smooth.

I suspect it would - the symptoms are unlike those with worn bearings
in a cup-and-cone BB, where you can rattle the crank from side to side
easily.

You also get those symptoms with a cartidge BB when the bearings are worn.
The BB doesn't need replacing if there is no play like that and no bad
roughness.

There was no play in the spindle, but the BB had the outside of the
left-hand bearing flush with the shell, so it was free to rotate - this
exhibited a bit of play and I suspect this was the source of the
problem. I've now replaced it with a Shimano one which seems fine, at
least as far as I can tell without leaving the house, been raining all
day here.

Thanks to all who replied,

Finlay