Bicycle trailers:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

P.S My son-in-law owns an engineering business so he will
be building it, just want him to build only one if
possible.Rather than a back yard full of mistakes!

Maybe this site would be of interest to you?
biketrailers.20m.comMAIN.htmOpen ↗

Detailed plans, descriptions & explanations, and lots of
pictures, for a DIY trailer.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
carries tips the impression over the top that you're
really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a seat-
post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly to the
frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the former
bears the weight.)

I have a no-longer-made Tanjor trailer, which is streamlined
as much as possible, and it lets me ride with one higher
gear than my boxy Burley, from reduced wind drag; but it's
still slower than no trailer when empty.

Keeping all the tires pumped up hard helps a lot, reducing
some drag that you normally put up with in compensation.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Ron Hardin said:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
carries tips the impression over the top that you're
really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a seat-
post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly to the
frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the former
bears the weight.)

I have a no-longer-made Tanjor trailer, which is
streamlined as much as possible, and it lets me ride with
one higher gear than my boxy Burley, from reduced wind
drag; but it's still slower than no trailer when empty.

Keeping all the tires pumped up hard helps a lot, reducing
some drag that you normally put up with in compensation.

I ride with the BOB trailer and I can bear out that it will
slow you down (typically I'll lose 1 to 2 mph over a non-
flat route). Not only that but it feels weird. It's like
driving an 18 wheeler. It will be difficult to stand with
the trailer. You will need to take turns a little wider.
Your speed up hills will decrease. You won't be able to fly
down hills as too much speed is a bad thing (jack knife and
high speed instability). Having said all that I find it to
be no worse than carrying a fully load back pack. The
trailer does have 2 advantages. First I tend to throw
everything into it so nothing is forgotten. Second it's much
better in my trailer than on my back. I already ride with a
fully loaded Camelback and I've found it difficult to
combine that with the back pack. One thing to note: make
sure you have a good sturdy 36 spoke back wheel. The typical
racing wheel doesn't hold up wheel to road abuse and the
extra weight of ether a pack or trailer. Given a choice
between the trailer and the back back for loads better than
20 lbs I'd stay with the trailer. On my commute I tend to
ride with about 30 - 40 lbs in the trailer but I've gone
with more.

BTW, the BOB is a single wheel design. I haven't had any
experience with a 2 wheel design.

--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email hidden]
home.comcast.net~ncherryOpen ↗ (Text only)
linuxha.sourceforge.netlinuxha.sourceforge.netOpen ↗ (SourceForge)
hcs.sourceforge.nethcs.sourceforge.netOpen ↗ (HCS II)

Ron Hardin said:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
carries tips the impression over the top that you're
really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a seat-
post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly to the
frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the former
bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack instead
of pannier bags?

=v= I very recently threw together a trailers web page:

things.orgtrailers.htmlOpen ↗

Here's another page discussing a completely different set
of trailers:

ucolick.orgtrailers.htmlOpen ↗

<_Jym_

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

Ron Hardin said:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
carries tips the impression over the top that you're
really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a
seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly to
the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
former bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

It holds more, you can hang excess on the side, or drape
over the thing; when not in use it's out of the wind and
rigid on the frame.

I've never bought more than I could carry, ever, using one.
The extreme is using my 6' cable lock as a 3' loop looped
through shopping bags, and sling the whole thing over the
top of what's in the milk crate.

It's completely waterproof if you simply put everything in a
garbage bag and twisty tie it shut, on days when you want it
waterproof.

It beats panniers by so far that it's not even on the
same planet.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:10:38 GMT, [email hidden] (The Queen

of Cans and Jars) said:

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride
faster than him.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ron Hardin said:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
carries tips the impression over the top that you're
really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a
seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly to
the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
former bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

To make it more theft resistant.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 12:37:07 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride faster
than him.

Not if: when.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ron Hardin said:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
carries tips the impression over the top that you're
really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a
seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly
to the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and
the former bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

To make it more theft resistant.

Plus a milk crate and some zip ties are *so* much cheaper.

Mark

- --
Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4
(GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFA2xoxLVmEOl6/PWERAn5IAKC+6V72CweOiKjYyo3XQy8s4DFtVgC-
gpVjk I6278LhQWIkBuzdqNLJHQI4= =l521 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Mark Mitchell said:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ron Hardin <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
>desires.
>
>An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
>on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
>resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
>carries tips the impression over the top that you're
>really being slowed down.
>
>So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
>luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
>conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a
>seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly to
>the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
>former bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

To make it more theft resistant.

Plus a milk crate and some zip ties are *so* much cheaper.

Mark

The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts
your center of gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off
of each side of the rack doubles the cargo space and keep
the center of gravity low. Makes the bike kind of wide
though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make panniers. See
home.thegrid.net9Nov2002 04.JPGOpen ↗ for some
rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and a few
dollars of hardware.

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

"Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact
that a person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife
beater, and even a newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive
there's something wrong with him." Art Buchwald

Lorenzo L. Love said:

The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts
your center of gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off
of each side of the rack doubles the cargo space and keep
the center of gravity low. Makes the bike kind of wide
though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make panniers.
See home.thegrid.net9Nov2002 04.JPGOpen ↗ for
some rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and
a few dollars of hardware.

There's no harm in a high cg; it makes you more stable, if
anything. The problem with it is rigidity and how to achieve
it. If the load flops around relative to the bike, the bike
is very difficult to handle.

The double rack I described solves most of that, both legged
and seat-post versions in use at once.

Incidentally you have to put a piece of scrap wood sideways
across the bottom of the milk crate to distribute the load
at the end of the rack; the crate will have only about its
front half on the rack, and you'll crack the plastic
otherwise.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Rick Onanian said:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:10:38 GMT, [email hidden]

(The Queen of Cans and Jars) said:

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride faster
than him.

fabrizio? that's the guy from the "I Can't Believe It's Not
Butter!" commercials, right?

Ron Hardin said:

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

Ron Hardin said:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of
weight on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of
wind resistance from the trailer and from the weight
it carries tips the impression over the top that
you're really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a
seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly
to the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and
the former bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

It holds more, you can hang excess on the side, or drape
over the thing; when not in use it's out of the wind and
rigid on the frame.

I've never bought more than I could carry, ever, using
one. The extreme is using my 6' cable lock as a 3' loop
looped through shopping bags, and sling the whole thing
over the top of what's in the milk crate.

It's completely waterproof if you simply put everything in
a garbage bag and twisty tie it shut, on days when you
want it waterproof.

It beats panniers by so far that it's not even on the
same planet.

i've never had any problem fitting everything i needed to
fit into my pannier bags. and, as an added bonus, i don't
have to ride around with a friggin' milk crate on my rack.

don't get me wrong - if it works for you, okey doke. i'm not
interested in arguing with you about it. but i think that
it's aesthetically and functionally inferior, and that even
if you don't want to use panniers there are far better
solutions.

you go on with your bad milk crate, though. have fun with
it.

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ron Hardin said:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of
weight on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of
wind resistance from the trailer and from the weight
it carries tips the impression over the top that
you're really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a
seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly
to the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and
the former bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

To make it more theft resistant.

hee!

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1gfwchx.1xbaq281o4mewlN%> > >

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of

pannier

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bags?

i've never had any problem fitting everything i needed to
fit into my pannier bags. and, as an added bonus, i don't
have to ride around with a friggin' milk crate on my rack.

don't get me wrong - if it works for you, okey doke. i'm
not interested in arguing with you about it. but i think
that it's aesthetically and functionally inferior, and
that even if you don't want to use panniers there are far
better solutions.

you go on with your bad milk crate, though. have fun
with it.

1. A milk crate costs about $3 at a hardware store, and most
people already have one. Panniers are more expensive.
2. The dorky look of a milk crate serves as an effective
anti-theft device for the entire bike. It marks the
rider as somebody not worth mugging, because how much
money could they possibly have? Certainly it's hard to
imagine stealing the milk crate itself. Panniers make a
bike look more attractive, and can be stolen easily if
left on the bike.
3. The milk crate doesn't need any extra attention in rain.
4. You can stick a backpack in a milk crate more easily than
in panniers, which is an advantage for students.
5. No heel strike problems with a milk crate.
6. The back of the milk crate makes a nice surface for
bumper stickers containing the irritating political
slogan of your choice.

I've used both, and prefer panniers. The humble milk crate
is not without appeal, however.

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote: (clip) i think that it's
aesthetically and functionally inferior (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^
Can anyone comment on the effect on handling of the high
center of gravity of a rack-mounted crate vs. the lower
center of panniers? Seems to me the panniers would be less
leable to "wag the bike."

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote: (clip) rainproof panniers I made
from cat litter buckets and a few dollars of hardware.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now I'm going to bring this discussion full
circle. I think those panniers are really neat, but it looks
like they would add as much wind resistance as a trailer.

Curtis L. Russell said:

Rick Onanian said:

So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride faster
than him.

Not if: when.

No, 'if' is correct for me, unless I'm guaranteed a
good downhill.
--
Rick "aerobelly" Onanian