Bicycle trailers:

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:02:53 GMT, [email hidden] (The Queen

of Cans and Jars) said:

Rick Onanian said:

So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride faster
than him.

fabrizio? that's the guy from the "I Can't Believe It's Not
Butter!" commercials, right?

Hmmm...you know, you may be onto something there.
--
Rick Onanian

Mike Kruger said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

i've never had any problem fitting everything i needed
to fit into my pannier bags. and, as an added bonus, i
don't have to ride around with a friggin' milk crate on
my rack.

don't get me wrong - if it works for you, okey doke. i'm
not interested in arguing with you about it. but i think
that it's aesthetically and functionally inferior, and
that even if you don't want to use panniers there are
far better solutions.

you go on with your bad milk crate, though. have fun
with it.

1. A milk crate costs about $3 at a hardware store, and
most people already have one. Panniers are more
expensive.

smart shoppers find good deals when they need them.

Quoted message said:

2. The dorky look of a milk crate serves as an effective
anti-theft device for the entire bike. It marks the
rider as somebody not worth mugging, because how much
money could they possibly have? Certainly it's hard to
imagine stealing the milk crate itself. Panniers make a
bike look more attractive, and can be stolen easily if
left on the bike.

they can also be easily locked, or removed and carried.

Quoted message said:

3. The milk crate doesn't need any extra attention in
rain.

i don't ride in the rain.

Quoted message said:

4. You can stick a backpack in a milk crate more easily
than in panniers, which is an advantage for students.

i could fit three backpacks in my pannier bags.

Quoted message said:

5. No heel strike problems with a milk crate.

nor with my panniers.

Quoted message said:

6. The back of the milk crate makes a nice surface for
bumper stickers containing the irritating political
slogan of your choice.

i don't put bumperstickers on my car, so why would i put
them on my bike?

Quoted message said:

I've used both, and prefer panniers. The humble milk crate
is not without appeal, however.

except for the fact that they're hideous, of course.

"Ron Hardin" wrote: There's no harm in a high cg; it makes
you more stable, if anything. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am
picturing you with road gearing, climbing a hill, out of the
saddle, and angling the bike from side to side as you pedal.
That crateful of baggage is moving back and forth--doesn't
that make riding harder? I'm not saying it does; I have
never tried it, but it sure seems like it would.

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Ron Hardin <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your
>desires.
>
>An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight
>on the bike isn't bad, but the combination of wind
>resistance from the trailer and from the weight it
>carries tips the impression over the top that you're
>really being slowed down.
>
>So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear
>luggage rack and do it that way. (I recommend a
>conventional rack with legs PLUS the core innards of a
>seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized as firmly to
>the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
>former bears the weight.)
>
why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack
instead of pannier bags?

To make it more theft resistant.

hee!

I rode for a about a year n a half with a milk crate zipp
tied to my rack. Visually ugly. Practically? The best!

I took it off because I had a style attitude, wanted to look
more "normal" (word of advice: "get a car"😉 There's some
history. Bottom line today? The previous advice is good and
reasonable. A milk crate is a good thing. The real bottom
line is, if you like riding a bike , get a bike and ride
it. Cheers!!! Bernie

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

Leo Lichtman said:

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote: (clip) rainproof panniers I made
from cat litter buckets and a few dollars of hardware.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now I'm going to bring this discussion full
circle. I think those panniers are really neat, but it
looks like they would add as much wind resistance as a
trailer.

That's my rain bike and when carrying cargo in the rain, or
just when carrying cargo period, wind resistance isn't high
on my list of concerns. But take into account tailbox effect
and it may actually reduce drag. It would take coast down
tests to determine.

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

"A bicycle does get you there and more And there is always
the thin edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably
apprehensive. Dogs become dogs again and snap at your
raincoat; potholes become personal. And getting there is all
the fun." Bill Emerson

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

because i don't have to any more.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ron Hardin" wrote: There's no harm in a high cg; it makes
you more stable, if anything. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am
picturing you with road gearing, climbing a hill, out of
the saddle, and angling the bike from side to side as you
pedal. That crateful of baggage is moving back and forth--
doesn't that make riding harder? I'm not saying it does; I
have never tried it, but it sure seems like it would.

Indeed. As someone who has carried a lot of heavy cargo by
bike, I know keeping it low is very important. I've done the
milk crate on top of the rack thing, that's how I know
hanging them from the sides of the rack works better. But
even small changes in center of gravity can be felt. I've
recently been carrying a lot of wood pallets home for a
garden project via a one wheel BOB trailer. If you look at a
pallet, you see that it has a light side with usually 3
slats and a heavy side with 8 to 12 slats. Carrying it heavy
side down causes noticeably better handling even though it's
only a difference of four inches.

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

"A bicycle does get you there and more And there is always
the thin edge of danger to keep you alert and comfortably
apprehensive. Dogs become dogs again and snap at your
raincoat; potholes become personal. And getting there is all
the fun." Bill Emerson

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ron Hardin" wrote: There's no harm in a high cg; it makes
you more stable, if anything. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I am
picturing you with road gearing, climbing a hill, out of
the saddle...

Sounds like you're not picturing Ron Hardin!

For many years, Ron has given us fond descriptions of his
Huffy, and his sneak-along-the-sidewalk riding style.
Seriously. This will help you understand the milk crate.

Not that there's anything wrong with a milk crate, of
course!

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Quoted message said:

The idea of a trailer has been going through my mind and
am wondering what sort, as in single rear wheel, or twin
wheeled type.

I have one of each, a Bykaboose and a BOB. The single-wheel
BOB is lighter, sturdier, tracks better, seems to have less
drag, and is more stable; the two-wheel Bykaboose is
cheaper, holds more, and it folds flat. Both provide two
advantages over racks and panniers [of which I have
plenty]: you can carry more, and the bike is more stable
carrying the load. Racks and panniers are lighter in
weight, though, and cheaper; anyone who do not need to
carry a lot of weight and volume of cargo may be better off
with them than with a trailer.

--
Robots don't kill people -- people kill people.
irobotmovie.comirobotmovie.comOpen ↗

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts
your center of gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off
of each side of the rack doubles the cargo space and keep
the center of gravity low. Makes the bike kind of wide
though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make panniers.
See home.thegrid.net9Nov2002 04.JPGOpen ↗ for
some rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and
a few dollars of hardware.

That looks like a pretty good setup; do you have some kind
of quick release so you can take off the buckets and carry
them around by the handle?

....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

Lorenzo L. Love said:

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

hey, the grid! do you live on the central coast, Lorenzo?

David Kerber said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts
your center of gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off
of each side of the rack doubles the cargo space and keep
the center of gravity low. Makes the bike kind of wide
though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make panniers.
See home.thegrid.net9Nov2002 04.JPGOpen ↗ for
some rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and
a few dollars of hardware.

That looks like a pretty good setup; do you have some kind
of quick release so you can take off the buckets and carry
them around by the handle?

....

It hooks on to the rack like any other pannier. See
home.thegrid.netcargo1.jpgOpen ↗ and home.thegrid.net9Nov2002Open ↗
07.JPG Aluminum flat stock is attached with double stick
tape on the inside and out and the hooks bolted to that,
otherwise the plastic wouldn't stand up to the strain. The
little cleat at the bottom is used with a mini-bungee cord
to hold the bottom down to the chainstays. You can get the
hooks and the other parts at any hardware store. It was
maybe $8 for all the stuff to make a pair of panniers. I
used Tidy Cat brand cat litter buckets which are rectangular
and have an attached hinged lid, but standard square four
gallon buckets with separate lids will work fine too. It's
easy and cheap to make your own, but Cobbworks makes bucket
panniers ready to go. See cobbworks.comcobbworks.comOpen ↗ Costs
about 6 or 7 times as much as making your own.

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

"The more I think about our US domestic transportation
problems... the more I see an increased role for the bicycle
in American life. I am convinced after riding bikes here in
China, that it is a sensible, economical and clean form of
transportation that makes enormous good sense." George H. W.
Bush, as US ambassador to China

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

Lorenzo L. Love said:

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

hey, the grid! do you live on the central coast, Lorenzo?

Yreka, CA, but TheGrid hasn't existed for years. It was an
excellent ISP which got bought out by One Main which was
pretty good, and then OneMain got bought out by EarthLink
which really sucks as an ISP. Now an thegrid.net address is
just an alias for an earthlink.com address. Earthlink has
swallowed up scores of previously fine local ISPs.

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

"640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates 1981

Lorenzo L. Love said:

The Queen of Cans and Jars said:

Lorenzo L. Love said:

Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~llloveOpen ↗

hey, the grid! do you live on the central coast,
Lorenzo?

Yreka, CA, but TheGrid hasn't existed for years. It was an
excellent ISP which got bought out by One Main which was
pretty good, and then OneMain got bought out by EarthLink
which really sucks as an ISP. Now an thegrid.net address
is just an alias for an earthlink.com address. Earthlink
has swallowed up scores of previously fine local ISPs.

yes, i know the history ... i still have an "@thegrid.net"
email address
🙂 for some reason i thought it had been fairly local; i
:didn't realize
they were all the way up in Yreka.

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote: (clip) i think
that it's

aesthetically

Quoted message said:

and functionally inferior (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^ Can anyone
comment on the effect on handling of the high center of
gravity of a rack-mounted crate vs. the lower center of
panniers? Seems to me the panniers would be less leable to
"wag the bike."

I never did any controlled tests, but:
1. If you hang stuff off the crate, which is an easy
temptation when you are bringing home groceries, the
stuff will swing, and that can be a control problem. But
that's high weight swinging, not high weight stable.
Swinging weight is bad anywhere. It's less likely you
will be tempted to have swinging weight with panniers,
because of their design. (Note Ron Hardin's instructions
clearly emphasize stability.)

2. I'm a big guy (200 lb), and did not have any big handling
problems not related to #1. The most I ever carried on
the milk crate was 61 pounds (crate and backpack
together) for about 15 miles. That was a lot. While
commuting, I often ride with one pannier, which doesn't
seem to cause me any balance problems even if there's a
bunch of papers in the pannier; maybe I'm not very
sensitive to this sort of thing.

3. In general, simple physics suggest that low weight is
easier than high weight, and that's my subjective opinion
as well. But stability doesn't override everything else,
or we'd all be on trikes.

4. There is one remaining problem, and that's getting on
and off the bike. Ordinarily I would swing my leg around
the back, but that's hard with the rack in the way. It
made me wish for a mixte frame that would be easier to
step through.

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

because i don't have to any more.

!!

What's wrong with riding in the rain?

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

Mike Kruger said:

4. There is one remaining problem, and that's getting on
and off the bike. Ordinarily I would swing my leg
around the back, but that's hard with the rack in the
way. It made me wish for a mixte frame that would be
easier to step through.

i'm already in the habit of swinging my leg to the front
because i used to ride a tandem.

but i'm still not putting a milk crate on my rear rack.

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

> i don't ride in the rain.

!!

Why not?

because i don't have to any more.

!!

What's wrong with riding in the rain?

nothing at all, if it's what you want to do. i've done it
voluntarily many times. i choose not to do it any longer.

"Mike Kruger" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

1. A milk crate costs about $3 at a hardware store, and
most people already have one. Panniers are more
expensive.

I have a milk crate, my wife has a fold-out "grocery bag"
pannier. Hers cost $9, mine was free.

Quoted message said:

2. The dorky look of a milk crate serves as an effective
anti-theft device for the entire bike. It marks the
rider as somebody not worth mugging, because how much
money could they possibly have? Certainly it's hard to
imagine stealing the milk crate itself. Panniers make a
bike look more attractive, and can be stolen easily if
left on the bike.

Her pannier is much better looking, especially with its day-
glo rain cover.

Quoted message said:

3. The milk crate doesn't need any extra attention in
rain.

She needs to put her cover on, which she usually uses
anyway.

Quoted message said:

4. You can stick a backpack in a milk crate more easily
than in panniers, which is an advantage for students.

I like this feature the most. When I ride my bike downtown
for shopping or Dr. visit, etc., I can throw my backpack
into the crate, then grab it & put helmet, etc. away for
errands. The pannier easily detaches though, and has
handles, looks like a square, black, fabric shopping bag,
not too bad either.

Quoted message said:

5. No heel strike problems with a milk crate.

Also a big issue for me with size 52 shoes.

Quoted message said:

6. The back of the milk crate makes a nice surface for
bumper stickers containing the irritating political
slogan of your choice.

I've thought of that, but think a big reflector might be
more pragmatic. The pannier does have reflective material.

Quoted message said:

I've used both, and prefer panniers. The humble milk crate
is not without appeal, however.

I agree. Another drawback of the crate is that sitting
directly on the rack as it does, it subjects the contents to
a harsher ride. I keep a bit of foam in mine, helps when
delivering things like a 12-pack of bottles.