Article from "The Week"

"Did you write Fractint?! "

No way! That does sound vaguely familiar though.
It seems that in MS's C# language fractals are ignored in the common
standard run Framework library.

-Ken

Mad Dog said:

If I've hurt your or his feelings, I wish I could
say I'm sorry, but you wouldn't want me to lie, wouldja?

No hurt feelings whatsoever, just my observations against yours.

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Mad Dog said:

Goodie for you and he, go have a few more hugs. His behavior appeared idiotic
to me, thus my observation. If I've hurt your or his feelings, I wish I could
say I'm sorry, but you wouldn't want me to lie, wouldja?

I was hoping, you'd say something interesting, educational, or funny,
or put up or shut up, but it seems you chose "none of the above."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also think the better your understanding of any subject, the better
you will be able to give a short meaningful explanation of that subject.

Right... Sure... [censored]! Once you get past a layperson's understanding of
anything that's reasonably complex, you know how limiting soundbite explanations
are. For example, you know a bit about bike racing, right? Do you think you
could write a 25 word primer that could inform a generic newbie on the process
required to make him or her a competitive cyclist on the ProTour level? I
don't.

Athletes improve by training, and by recovery from training
which rebuilds strength - so ride fast, ride hard, ride lots,
but get plentiful rest and sleep.

Armstrong's answer to this question was more economical,
if a little belligerent: "What am I on? I'm on my bike
six hours a day. What are you on?"

That doesn't tell a newbie how he or she could become a pro cyclist,
but it effectively communicates the dedication that is required.
25 words can be better than no words.

Quoted message said:

Sure, you could use those 25 words to reference a number of resources,
but that's cheating in this context. A few years back, loads of people dropped
"Chaos Theory" on any subject they didn't understand or that they thought was
too complex for anyone to understand in a predictive sense. Too many people
thought that the butterfly wing flapping visual was all they needed to know, and
that's akin to thinking you are ready to wrench Formula 1 after learning how to
pump gas into your Pinto.

Refusing to provide explanations is not the best defense against
this kind of ignorance.

No explanation can ever fully educate a person. At best you can
get them interested enough that they can further educate themselves.
When I taught science, if I could get that far with a few students at
a time it was a success.

Mad Dog said:

Right... Sure... [censored]! Once you get past a layperson's understanding of
anything that's reasonably complex, you know how limiting soundbite explanations
are. For example, you know a bit about bike racing, right? Do you think you
could write a 25 word primer that could inform a generic newbie on the process
required to make him or her a competitive cyclist on the ProTour level? I
don't.

Dumbass,

Don't play stupider than you actually are. No intelligent person comes
to RBR looking for knowledge. Ben was obviously throwing down the
gauntlet, as one who already understands and is testing whether you
understand. 25 words isn't enough to prove definitively that you know
what you're talking about, but it does weed out poseurs who only know a
few buzzwords, or pusswads like you who won't even rise to the
challenge 😉

Have a great one,
-Smurf

Quoted message said:

get them interested enough that they can further educate themselves.
When I taught science, if I could get that far with a few students at
a time it was a success.

Frankly, your attention span, like Bianchi, sounds apa(l)ling.

Mad Dog said:

Ewoud Dronkert says...

Quoted message said:

I think Ben is neither a layperson on the subject of chaos theory, nor of
limited attention span, nor an idiot.

Goodie for you and he

Wrong case, Einstein.

Quoted message said:

Right... Sure... [censored]! Once you get past a layperson's

understanding of

Quoted message said:

anything that's reasonably complex, you know how limiting soundbite explanations
are.

Doesn't follow. Some complex subjects can be explained to in less than
25 words, while others are more difficult. It depends on the subject.

Quoted message said:

When I taught science, if I could get that far with a few students at
a time it was a success.

don't you still teach? i though you recently mentioned "a student", but
to be honest, the rbr years are all blurring together in my memory. (or
is it that you teach non science now??)

h

Torched Smurf says...

Quoted message said:

No intelligent person comes
to RBR looking for knowledge.

With pissants like you to read, I can see why.

Quoted message said:

Ben was obviously throwing down the gauntlet, as one who already
understands and is testing whether you understand.

And I don't have to prove anything, regardless of what Ben or anyone else throws
down. My original question was not judgmental - I simply asked the name dropper
if he knew the fundamentals of CT. So many people toss it out there when all
they know about it is the sound bite. That's [censored].

Quoted message said:

25 words isn't enough to prove definitively that you know
what you're talking about, but it does weed out poseurs who only know a
few buzzwords, or pusswads like you who won't even rise to the
challenge

Well, there simply wasn't enough meat behind the challenge to smoke me out, but
it could happen. You just need to put a bit of money behind that bigass mouth
of yours. And don't be cheap with your wager, Pusswad.

h squared said:

Quoted message said:

When I taught science, if I could get that far with a few students at
a time it was a success.

don't you still teach? i though you recently mentioned "a student", but
to be honest, the rbr years are all blurring together in my memory. (or
is it that you teach non science now??)

I have a temporary research appointment and haven't taught a
class for a while - I still talk to students, but not in the
intro-physics context I was thinking of.

ED - huh? There's only so much you can do in a 15 week semester.
I'd love to have motivated every single student in an intro class
to feel a passion for the subject, but anyone who says they can
do that is delusional. Most of the students are (a) scared and
(b) primarily interested in getting a decent grade so they don't get
kicked off the pre-med or pre-engineering track. I can hardly
blame them.

Mad Dog said:

if he knew the fundamentals of CT. So many people toss it out there when all
they know about it is the sound bite. That's [censored].

Dumbass,

You don't even seem to know enough to give a sound bite. All you've
provided is a bunch of handwaving about how "complex" an issue it is.
Since you refuse to demean Chaos Theory, in all its majestic
complexity, with something so trite as a synopsis, how about just give
the first 25 words of the textbook you would write on the subject,
Professor? Try to make it interesting, plz; we all have such short
attention spans these days.

Thanks,
-Smurf

Quoted message said:

ED - huh?

Sorry bad joke (re: my first reply to Mad Dog).

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Quoted message said:

ED - huh?

Sorry bad joke (re: my first reply to Mad Dog).

My bad. I wondered if you were making some veiled
off-color rbr joke about just how far I meant when I said
"if I could get that far with the students." Funny!
But you can get fired for _that_ over here. Often,
rightly so.

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Mad Dog wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Athletes improve by training, and by recovery from training
which rebuilds strength - so ride fast, ride hard, ride lots,
but get plentiful rest and sleep.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But you forgot one of the mainstays of effective training: proper
diet. In your quest for the concise soundbite, you failed to
deliver the Holy Grail. You also forgot that base mileage at a
pace well below "ride fast, ride hard" is considered vital by
every top coach and trainer I've heard of. You also forgot
to talk about how to determine what specific training aspect
is critical at any given time in order to peak for a targeted
race. You're not gonna do well on the pro cycling tour if
you can't integrate these aspects and more into your program
and my request was specific to that end. And we haven't gotten
into strategic and tactical aspects, equipment optimization,
or any number of key components that are required to make a
racer successful.

Quoted message said:

That's chickenshit.

Nope, but your inability to face the facts sure as hell is.

Quoted message said:

Your position boils down to "No answer can ever be good enough,
so why bother summarizing."

Wrong again. My position is that the 25 word soundbite is inadequate for some
subjects. Thanks for inadvertently proving my point and don't let the door hit
you in the ass on your way out.

Next!

Quoted message said:

It's not important to me whether you understand chaos theory (which I
think is overhyped for its level of results)

See, there are things we agree on. But I hope to live long enough to see
pillars of utility get established. I mean, the next time I have to shovel 6"
of partly cloudy off the driveway, I'm gonna kill the weatherman.

Quoted message said:

for all I know, you're Feigenbaum under an assumed name.

True.

Quoted message said:

A humorous answer to the "25 words"
question would have sufficed, but you seem defensive for some reason.

And you seem dense.

Quoted message said:

I'm not going to Paris, I suck, this is well established.

Nor Oslo, eh?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I believe your first sentence is misleading. At the cutting edge,
leaders in any field invent, innovate and stretch the current knowledge
envelope. Educating one to work in that domain is elusive, but down
in the area of fundamentals, there are many talented teachers that
get a motivated student so close to fully educated that I'll call
it good. The problem I've seen is that there are so few self-motivated
students, the job of the teacher often gets smeared towards motivational
psychology, regardless of the class title.

Quoted message said:

A job of the teacher is not just to teach the self-motivated students,
but attempt to teach the other ones as well. The self-motivated
students are the easy ones.

You're not even a good copycat.

Teched Smurf says...

Quoted message said:

Since you refuse to demean Chaos Theory, in all its majestic
complexity, with something so trite as a synopsis, how about just give
the first 25 words of the textbook you would write on the subject,
Professor?

I'm not in the mood to fill your order just as asked, so I'll give you part of
it, done my way, with dimwits like you in mind:

"Simple-minded pseudointelectuals have long yearned for concise solutions to
further their understanding of complex natural phenomena. Perhaps these lost
souls failed to learn the fundamentals of classical science and therefore are
unprepared to make the quantum leap to even the simplest orbital of the state of
the art? This is unfortunate, because the starting point for chaos is a step or
two beyond the outer realm of classical science."

Quoted message said:

Try to make it interesting, plz;

There's no guarantee that science or philosophy will be interesting, but when
you get bored in class, just whip out your Gameboy and amuse yourself in your
usual fashion.

Quoted message said:

we all have such short attention spans these days.

Clint would be proud of you.

Mad Dog said:

"Simple-minded pseudointelectuals have long yearned for concise solutions to
further their understanding of complex natural phenomena. Perhaps these lost
souls failed to learn the fundamentals of classical science and therefore are
unprepared to make the quantum leap to even the simplest orbital of the state of
the art? This is unfortunate, because the starting point for chaos is a step or
two beyond the outer realm of classical science."

Brilliant, Prof. I like the clever misspelling of
"pseudo-intellectuals"... you've got a real grasp of irony, if I may
say so, sir. Here is the first paragraph my comments on your teacher's
evaluation:

"I like Professor Mad Dog, I really do. It's just... well, I don't feel
like I actually *learned* that much in his class. I tried to pay
attention when he was telling us all how stupid we were, and how we
couldn't possibly fathom the complexities of his subject. I even took
notes. But as the weeks wore on and his lectures continued to center on
my stupidity, rather than on the subject of Chaos Theory, I began to
ask myself: does Dr. Dog actually know anything about this, or is he,
like the football contingent in the back row, just trying to BS his way
through the class?"

Thanks,
-Smurf

Torched Smurf says...

Quoted message said:

Mad Dog wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Simple-minded pseudointelectuals

Quoted message said:

Brilliant, Prof. I like the clever misspelling of "pseudo-intellectuals"...
you've got a real grasp of irony, if I may say so, sir.

I'm glad you liked it. That one was for you and you bit. Perfect.

Quoted message said:

Here is the first paragraph my comments on your teacher's
evaluation:

Quoted message said:

"I like Professor Mad Dog, I really do. It's just... well, I don't feel
like I actually *learned* that much in his class.

I like you too, Smurf, even though your bias reeks, like your breath, of
[censored]. I gave you the intro you begged for (I wish I could say I love it
when you beg but in reality, I find it disgusting to see you wallowing in your
[censored] like that) even if the intro wasn't what you thought you'd get. But here's
the point: the student's don't get to evaluate an instructor till AFTER they
have taken the actual class. A one-paragraph intro doesn't tell the story but I
have to keep reminding myself of your attention deficit problem. If only the
one paragraph intro were sufficient for the likes of you to pass the final...
Alas, no.

Quoted message said:

does Dr. Dog actually know anything about this, or is he, like the football
contingent in the back row, just trying to BS his way through the class?"

You'd never be able to tell either way. (sound of bullet zipping past your
head)