Another useless gimic?

"Alan Walker" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

Colnago C40 HP, I suppose.

Quoted message said:

I think it would require spin of election campaign manager proportions
to justify that one.

Not that difficult: it could be enough something like: "the new
diamond-shaped chainstays absorb 25% more road bump than the traditional
ones, weighting 10% less and giving 30% more stiffness to the bottom
bracket"

Et voilà.

Maurizio, Bologna, Italy

Alan Walker said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

I think it would require spin of election campaign manager proportions
to justify that one.

A nice hole for your bicycle lock.

Lou

"Alan Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

That would be one of these (or the previous year's model):
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/shows.php?id=photos/2003/tech/shows/eurobike/mal
oney/C-50D-Adetail2>
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/shows.php?id=photos/2003/tech/shows/eurobike/mal
oney/C-50detail-1>
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/shows.php?id=photos/2003/tech/shows/eurobike/mal
oney/ColnagoDream>
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/shows.php?id=photos/2003/tech/shows/eurobike/mal
oney/DreamDetail>
<http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2002/tradeshows02/?id=eurobike02/images/t
im1/Colnago1>

I think its Colnago's B-Stay HP "High Power" design. I'm
sure it will make you 5kg lighter, add 10kph to your sprint
speed and convince the missus that you really DO need to
ride a bike 6+ hours a day...

hippy

How much would YOU pay for 'new' or 'improved'? Just the words mind you,
not any hint of a physical attribute. Now you may know why high-end bikes
are approaching $10K.

I like my $6K 40-ish pound and thirty thousand mile old glide-ride.

"SM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever heard of design or are you one of those plonkers who drives around in

a

Quoted message said:

cardboard box, goes home to your square tin shed and dresses in the finest
flannel that you can find at the good sammies?

Its a Colnago C40 or C50 and is one of the best looking frames going

around.

Quoted message said:

"Alan Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

I think it would require spin of election campaign manager proportions
to justify that one.

Ever heard of design or are you one of those plonkers who drives around in a
cardboard box, goes home to your square tin shed and dresses in the finest
flannel that you can find at the good sammies?

Its a Colnago C40 or C50 and is one of the best looking frames going around.

"SM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever heard of design or are you one of those plonkers who drives around in

a

Quoted message said:

cardboard box, goes home to your square tin shed and dresses in the finest
flannel that you can find at the good sammies?

Its a Colnago C40 or C50 and is one of the best looking frames going

around.

But does the design do anything useful, or is it all
marketing hype and funky looks?

hippy
- born sceptic ;-)

"Alan Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message =
news:[email hidden]...
| Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
| diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
| into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.
|=20
| I think it would require spin of election campaign manager proportions
| to justify that one.

It's there for when you need to lean the bike against a wall or tree or =
something, and it's windy or there's a hill. You then run a carbon =
fibre rod, that Colnago provides and matches the frame, through the two =
diamonds. This keeps the bike from rolling too far. Works better with =
wheels with a reasonable number of spokes, though.

John Rees

Colnago transfered some one from the lug carving dept to the newly created
carbon carving dept,
Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles
"Where art meets science"
brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420
hippy <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"SM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ever heard of design or are you one of those plonkers who drives around

in

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

cardboard box, goes home to your square tin shed and dresses in the

finest

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

flannel that you can find at the good sammies?

Its a Colnago C40 or C50 and is one of the best looking frames going

around.

But does the design do anything useful, or is it all
marketing hype and funky looks?

hippy
- born sceptic ;-)

Doug Huffman <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How much would YOU pay for 'new' or 'improved'? Just the words mind
you, not any hint of a physical attribute. Now you may know why
high-end bikes are approaching $10K.

I like my $6K 40-ish pound and thirty thousand mile old glide-ride.

Oh, the irony.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

(Alan Walker) said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

That's what happens when bike buyers let silly people make their bikes
out of plastic. (They could have shaped the frame like a carousel
horse instead, but that would have been interesting, so of course they
didn't.)

It's much more difficult to include such ugly and worthless
contrivances when the maker is constrained to a proper material.

Chalo Colina

"Maurizio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Alan Walker" <[email hidden]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

Colnago C40 HP, I suppose.

Quoted message said:

I think it would require spin of election campaign manager proportions
to justify that one.

Not that difficult: it could be enough something like: "the new
diamond-shaped chainstays absorb 25% more road bump than the traditional
ones, weighting 10% less and giving 30% more stiffness to the bottom
bracket"

Nearly right (they oughta give you a job!):

"The Diamond HP (High Power) Stays Engineered Carbon Fiber Diamond shape:
Enhances the Compliant Smooth Ride, Decreases Power Robbing Lateral Flex,
Dampens Vibration".

Here's a translation:

"Yikes! All bikes that meet UCI codes look practically identical!
The paint-job is already as loud as we can make it while still
being able to sell the damn thing - how the hell can we get some
brand-differentiation in there? Ok, let's look back to the
golden age of cycling when people drilled holes in every part of
the bike except the tyre. Holes, holes, holes... ...got it:
We'll do it to the chainstay. Woo-Hoo! Vive la difference!"

Pitiful.

Worthless.

Tim.

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 09/10/03

I have spoken to 3 people who have ridden the old C40 and the newer
C40-HP. All said that the HP chainstays made a noticeable difference in
improving the ride but thought the benefits would be most marked in
bigger riders. Make of that what you will!

--

Quoted message said:

--------------------------<

Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Alan Walker said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split into
two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

I saw one advertised with an "elastomer insert" stuffed into such a hole.
Is this the same bike? The "elastomer" was kind of transparent.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve
_`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to
(_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkien

[email hidden] (Alan Walker) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Saw a very expensive frame in my local bicycle shop with large
diamond-shaped holes in the chainstays. The carbon fibre tubes split
into two, then rejoined, leaving a hole.

[snip]

Dear Alan,

Below is a page that explains what advantages the
Colnago engineers believe their odd-looking frame
provides, specifically less lateral and vertical
flexing.

I don't know whether it actually does so or if such
stiffness matters, but I was surprised by how much
apparently ignorant scoffing your post generated.
You'd think that rec.bicycles.tech posters would be
curious about a weird new frame from a respected
manufacturer.

Anyone who wants to pursue the matter will find it easiest
to search for colnago and "high-power" with google, that
being the name Colnago uses for this funny-looking frame
with a sort of diamond-cutout spliced into the chain-stay.

Me, I ride a Schwinn.

http://www.trialtir-usa.com/2003-colnago/c40/c40-testing.html

Me, I ride a Schwinn, but I'd love to know what someone
like Jobst Brandt thinks of this. In the 1970's, I could
reel off the objections to the absurd monoshock designs
in observed trials motorcycles. In fact, I still ride
a 1976 Honda TL, possibly the last non-monoshock ever
made.

Carl Fogel

Carl Fogel said:

Below is a page that explains what advantages the Colnago engineers
believe their odd-looking frame provides, specifically less lateral and
vertical flexing.

I don't know whether it actually does so or if such stiffness matters, but
I was surprised by how much apparently ignorant scoffing your post
generated. You'd think that rec.bicycles.tech posters would be curious
about a weird new frame from a respected manufacturer.

Well, Colnago has also marketed frames with creased main tubes.

As far as this goes, according to the website you mention:

Quoted message said:

http://www.trialtir-usa.com/2003-colnago/c40/c40-testing.html

Indeed has a chart purporting to list the 5% increase in vertical flex.
But the scale is revealing, it gives flex in millimeters X 10e4. At the
highest mass tested, 100Kg, the new frame flexed not 600 mm, but 600/10000
mm. .06mm. The old frame flexed 580/10000 mm, .058mm That .002mm
difference is what they are advertising.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all
_`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so
(_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am
nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]

"patch70" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have spoken to 3 people who have ridden the old C40 and the newer
C40-HP. All said that the HP chainstays made a noticeable difference

in

Quoted message said:

improving the ride but thought the benefits would be most marked in
bigger riders. Make of that what you will!

If I spent $10k on one of those.. I'd probably
be trying to justify it to everyone too! :-)

hippy

"Carl Fogel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Below is a page that explains what advantages the
Colnago engineers believe their odd-looking frame
provides, specifically less lateral and vertical
flexing.
http://www.trialtir-usa.com/2003-colnago/c40/c40-testing.html

From the above site:
"Vertical Flex: With the new C40 HP, the rear triangle flexes 5%
more in the vertical plane; which should result in an increase in
comfort for the rider."

"Lateral Flex: In addition, there was 3.5% less lateral flex, thus
increasing the torsional rigidity of the rear triangle. These results
should allow greater power transfer from the frame."

Does increased vertical flex also rob the bike of power?
Does 5% more vertical flex actually translate to a nicer ride?
How much does lateral flex reduction increase the power?
Does the design add weight? If so, does the added weight
counter the possible extra power?

.... and with all that in mind... can someone give me one so I
can test all this? :-)

hippy

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Anyone who wants to pursue the matter will find it easiest
to search for colnago and "high-power" with google, that
being the name Colnago uses for this funny-looking frame
with a sort of diamond-cutout spliced into the chain-stay.

Me, I ride a Schwinn.

http://www.trialtir-usa.com/2003-colnago/c40/c40-testing.html

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Carl Fogel

I'm not JB, but according to the chart on the c40 page, a 100kg rider
will have 5% less vertical flex = 0.05 * 0.06mm = 0.003mm.

Let me guess... is that worth about 0.0000001psi in the tyre?

Ritch

David L. Johnson said:

Carl Fogel said:

I don't know whether it actually does so or if such stiffness matters, but
I was surprised by how much apparently ignorant scoffing your post
generated. You'd think that rec.bicycles.tech posters would be curious
about a weird new frame from a respected manufacturer.

Well, Colnago has also marketed frames with creased main tubes.

As far as this goes, according to the website you mention:

Quoted message said:

http://www.trialtir-usa.com/2003-colnago/c40/c40-testing.html

Indeed has a chart purporting to list the 5% increase in vertical flex.
But the scale is revealing, it gives flex in millimeters X 10e4. At the
highest mass tested, 100Kg, the new frame flexed not 600 mm, but 600/10000
mm. .06mm. The old frame flexed 580/10000 mm, .058mm That .002mm
difference is what they are advertising.

It's a very small amount. The difference in flex between two steel
frames, or between steel and aluminium frames, or between straight and
'hourglass' seat stays is also small, yet many people percieve (or
believe they percieve) the difference. The development of road racing
frame design is now so refined and so constrained by rules that most
innovations are inevitably going to be small incremental refinements
for small gains. From this point of view mountain bike design and
recumbent design is currently much more interesting; but given that
that _is_ the state of road racing frame design, I think that it would
be more sensible to take an interested if skeptical attitude to things
like this. Yes, it is at best a small change. It may nevertheless be a
useful one.

Quoted message said:

__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all
_`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so
(_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am
nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]

Indeed.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Do not sail on uphill water.
- Bill Lee