Angry cyclist!

[CAMPYBOB]

Sounds like we need a law against bad golfers!

I would be serving life + 1. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/mad.gif

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

1. I'm also from a small, rural Ohio town. I learned to ride on a 1957 Schwinn Phamtom that weighed more than me! .................

2. ......... Thank God we have a 3' rule and no-texting-while-driving law on the books

1. My older brother had a Phamtom... what a machine. I am not sure they were so much a bicycle as art... that could be ridden as if a bicycle. IMHO... one of the most beautiful American bicycles ever made.

2. Do you really think [COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 205)]jhusky[/COLOR] had something to do with passing the Ohio 3 foot law? I am out there on the streets and roads nearly everyday on my bicycle... and I would have sworn on a stack of [COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 205)]jhusky[/COLOR]'s books that people are still texting. Guess I can't believe my own eyes on that one. If it's agaisnt the law... I can be sure no one is actually texting!

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by jpr95 .

Better yet--everybody should have to carry insurance against hitting a Porsche with a golf ball! Whether or not you golf near a Porsche, or even golf at all!

Or better yet... insurance to cover all things not covered by insurance! [Then nationalize it... so those you refuse to work and illegal aliens get it for fee via my tax dollars].

 

[jhuskey]

Ohio, texting? I don't live in Ohio. Not sure what you talking about but then again nobody does. Please just let it go. It is getting infantile and boring.
There is no prize and no accolades for trying to be larger than life on the internet.

 

[el gato]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .


1. My older brother had a Phamtom... what a machine. I am not sure they were so much a bicycle as art... that could be ridden as if a bicycle. IMHO... one of the most beautiful American bicycles ever made.

2. Do you really think [COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 205)]jhusky[/COLOR] had something to do with passing the Ohio 3 foot law? I am out there on the streets and roads nearly everyday on my bicycle... and I would have sworn on a stack of [COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 205)]jhusky[/COLOR]'s books that people are still texting. Guess I can't believe my own eyes on that one. If it's agaisnt the law... I can be sure no one is actually texting!

Laws tend to work if people think that they may get caught and the penalty is painful. Here in CA a 1st offense for using a hand held cell phone while driving is around $50. That's pretty much a slap on the wrist. Make that $500 for a first offense and $1000 for the next and you might see a different attitude toward texting and talking while driving. I've watched people blow through stop signs on several occasions while chatting on their phones. They seemed to be totally unaware.

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by jhuskey .

Ohio, texting? I don't live in Ohio. Not sure what you talking about

Talking??? Buddy you've spent way too much time on your keyboard.... you need to get outside and cycle. I haven't talked at all... I've posted. Get your reader to re-read my line... I mentioned you and the 3 foot rule (as you had posted about that earlier).

 

[jhuskey]

I will post this one time be civil or be gone.

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by el gato .


Laws tend to work if people think that they may get caught and the penalty is painful.

[SIZE= 16px]You can sure bet the farm on that idea!!!! [/SIZE]

Here in Ohio we actually catch almost every murderer and always have (although a few slip by). And... we put murders to death. I guess that's why nobody ever murders anyone in Ohio. But.... wait... we have murders here all the time! There was even a guy killed for his carbon road bike here... just months ago.

Are you really sure about that crime/ punishment/ deterrent theory of yours? I am from a family of law enforcement... and I've never heard of that. Was there a study done or something? Where has that idea worked? Your not referring to some Asian nation where they beat people with bamboo are you?

Actually... I am pulling your leg. This forum is for the most part populated by adults. Adults have heard that punishment being enough to prevent crime crapola for decades. It is a great high-minded theory suitable for high school debate teams... but nothing else. The only people who win with that **** is the lawyers. A sixty dollar fine... people pay and whine. Sixty days in jail and they sell the boat and hire a lawyer.

Did you know it is common for criminals to plan their story's ahead of time... for when they get caught? You would think... if they know they need back-stories for when they are arrested they would pass on the crime wouldn't you. But they don't! Just like people buying lottery tickets really know they aren't going to win... but they play anyway... they take a chance... against the odds.

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by jhuskey .

I will post this one time be civil or be gone.

I am truely sorry. What un-civil thing have I done/posted/ or even thought? Please point-out any wrong doing I may have be a part of to me... so I can alter my posts and change my ways. Certainly... you don't mean wishing someone dead do you... because that wasn't me. Or the name calling... no that wasn't me ether... (hint: check your own posts).

I am a nice easy going guy... and I think my posts actually come accross that way. We just disagree on the topic of this thread.

 

[el gato]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .


[SIZE= 16px]You can sure bet the farm on that idea!!!! [/SIZE]

Here in Ohio we actually catch almost every murderer and always have (although a few slip by). And... we put murders to death. I guess that's why nobody ever murders anyone in Ohio. But.... wait... we have murders here all the time! There was even a guy killed for his carbon road bike here... just months ago.

Are you really sure about that crime/ punishment/ deterrent theory of yours? I am from a family of law enforcement... and I've never heard of that. Was there a study done or something? Where has that idea worked? Your not referring to some Asian nation where they beat people with bamboo are you?

Actually... I am pulling your leg. This forum is for the most part populated by adults. Adults have heard that punishment being enough to prevent crime crapola for decades. It is a great high-minded theory suitable for high school debate teams... but nothing else. The only people who win with that **** is the lawyers. A sixty dollar fine... people pay and whine. Sixty days in jail and they sell the boat and hire a lawyer.

Did you know it is common for criminals to plan their story's ahead of time... for when they get caught? You would think... if they know they need back-stories for when they are arrested they would pass on the crime wouldn't you. But they don't! Just like people buying lottery tickets really know they aren't going to win... but they play anyway... they take a chance... against the odds.

So, are you saying that if Ohio stopped prosecuting murders that the murder rate would stay the same? Interesting theory. I believe most criminals don't think that they will be caught or that their risk of arrest is low. Of course, some are just plain dumb. I know speed limits work to a degree because they keep me in check while riding my crotch rocket. I don't want to pay the fine or have my insurance rates go up. Maybe that's just me.

 

[qdc15]

If there was no speed limit, you'd probably ride slower out of common courtesy. If the state respects you enough to trust you to do the right thing, you'll want to live up to that expectation. If industries weren't regulated, workplaces would be safer, wages better, and there would be less pollution. People are inherently good. Laws make us selfish.

 

[alienator]

So, are you saying that if Ohio stopped prosecuting murders that the murder rate would stay the same?  Interesting theory.  I believe most criminals don't think that they will be caught or that their risk of arrest is low.  Of course, some are just plain dumb.  I know speed limits work to a degree because they keep me in check while riding my crotch rocket.  I don't want to pay the fine or have my insurance rates go up.  Maybe that's just me.

Your theory is correct. That's how civilizations survive: the vast majority of their members explicitly or implicitly agree to abide by laws that benefit and protect that civilization. That agreement comes not just because of explicit penalties for violating laws but also because of implied penalties or possible penalties that could prevent us from thriving or existing in that civilization.

 

[alienator]

If there was no speed limit, you'd probably ride slower out of common courtesy. If the state respects you enough to trust you to do the right thing, you'll want to live up to that expectation. If industries weren't regulated, workplaces would be safer, wages better, and there would be less pollution. People are inherently good. Laws make us selfish.

That argument fails because prior to regulations many more workplaces were unsafe, wages were very low, work hours were very long. As for the speed limit, there is no basis whatsoever for your argument.

 

[qdc15]

Sarcasm anyone? It says something about the level of discourse in this thread that my comment was taken seriously.

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by el gato .


So, are you saying that if Ohio stopped prosecuting murders that the murder rate would stay the same?

If I had said that... why didn't you highlight that? In fact... I posted something completely different. Maybe before you post a disagreement with my post... you might read what I posted.

The facts are simple... no one, no government, no research group has ever exposed anyway to effectively control people... with the exception of killing large numbers of the population. People however... seem pretty good at making decisions for themselves... hence your riding of your crotch rocket. Killing, punishing, jailing, beating, charging fines and/or fees... I guess they all have a place... I mean we have to do something... right. But wouldn't it be smartest... to do what works best?

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by alienator .
.... That agreement comes not just because of explicit penalties for violating laws but also because of implied penalties or possible penalties that could prevent us from thriving or existing in that civilization.

Wow... that would be a scary place to live... I don't think I would even want to visit there. I hate fear and refuse to live near it... let alone with it.

Where I choose to live... free men and women have decided to enjoy life free from fear and worry of tyranny. We obey all reasonable laws for the sake of the common good. But... we ignore all other laws as our founding fathers taught us to. You ought to visit... you'd like it here.

 

[alienator]

Sarcasm anyone? It says something about the level of discourse in this thread that my comment was taken seriously.

Apologies.

 

[jhuskey]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .


I am truely sorry. What un-civil thing have I done/posted/ or even thought? Please point-out any wrong doing I may have be a part of to me... so I can alter my posts and change my ways. Certainly... you don't mean wishing someone dead do you... because that wasn't me. Or the name calling... no that wasn't me ether... (hint: check your own posts).

I am a nice easy going guy... and I think my posts actually come accross that way. We just disagree on the topic of this thread.

No they come across with sarcasm to the degree of demeaning others. It is clear that you have an adversion to any kind of authority so just let it go. We don't agree but stop twisting my posts just say " I disagree". You took displeasure when I originally posted my first reply to the OP as if it were directed at you.
The direction you take from here on is up to you.

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by jhuskey .

1. No they come across with sarcasm to the degree of demeaning others. It is clear that you have an adversion to any kind of authority so just let it go.

2. We don't agree but stop twisting my posts just say " I disagree". You took displeasure when I originally posted my first reply to the OP as if it were directed at you.

3. The direction you take from here on is up to you.

1. Sarcasm true... but any demeaning of others was purely accidental. I just don't like hearing myself and people I love being called a "cager".... or any-other such dehumanizing name. Such dehumanizing is often the prelude to violent acts on those who are called names. This "them against us" attitude with motorist is deadly for cyclist.... it must stop.

I have no problem with authority! Nor do I relinquish my own authority as a free person with God given rights and free will.

2. You posted: [COLOR= rgb(255, 0, 0)]You are normal since adrenaline tends to raise emotions. Unless you are Mr Rogers you will go into combat mode at times depending on your mood, so I wouldn't seek counseling just yet. Just keep repeating , "I will not kill and ignorant people today". Even if they deserve it. [/COLOR]Not the advice I think anyone would give to a person who is obviously expressing violent desires towards.... people like my elderly mother... just because she drives a car.

3. I don't recommend anyone ride a bicycle in traffic! It is true... that in terms of shear numbers bicycling even in traffic is safe. In all of America about 600 cyclist die each year. When you remove the numbers of cyclist that refuse to wear helmets the number drops dramatically. Then remove those who were drinking while riding their bicycles and again... the rate dramatically drops.

In fact... the death/injury rate for cyclist isn't greatly different from any other activity or sport. But it does get scary in traffic... and can be, and is, deadly at times! And there is the rub. Cyclist need to man-up and learn to control their fear.... or stay on the bicycle paths. Trust me... this "combat mode" you mentioned most certainly requires solders to set fear aside. Accepting the fear caused anger, rage, or hate.... is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I am out there cycling on city, streets and roads almost everyday. I love cycling... and I defend the sport. I do NOT defend the emotional swings of cyclists. Yes motorist can do stupid, thoughtless, things and can even be hostile. And bicycle chains get dirty.... BOTH are just part of the sport. Cyclist should buck-up and set aside their fear and try to get along with the motorist they share the roads with.... and wipe their chains down with a rag.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

.... and wipe their chains down with a rag.

Park Tool U.S.A. "Chain Cyclone" CM-5 FTMFW!

I'm headed out to the garage to clean my chain right now! Ohio back-country roads are filthy! Why can't my government keep my roads clean, damnit!?!? (er...that's more sarcasm, for those with broken sarcasm meters or meters in need of calibration)

Disclaimer: No demeaning of any person, living or dead, was intended by this sarcasm. Any person that feels demeaned by this post can apply for a government subsidy, section 8 housing, food stamps, unemployment, WIC and cyber-bullying insurance. Offer void where prohibited by law, tribal custom, gang rulz or hurt feelings.

Ok...the chain will sparkle for the first 10 miles or so and sling clean 85-140 weight gear oil all over my rear rim...then look just as filthy as before I cleaned it. <shrugs>

You gentlemen carry on without me for awhile. I'm headed out into the freakin' 25 MPH wind gusts.