Angry cyclist!

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by Chavez .


I'm not even quite sure what qualifies someone as a "cager" as far as that goes - I definitely log more miles behind the wheel than I do on the bike.

I think the term is like all negative terms of hatred. If you are giving the OP a ride... you'd be a motorist. But get in the OP's way when cycling... you're a "cager".

It's just a darn shame that we can't live the dream [as described by the late Rodney King] and just all get along. I try to be a polite advocate of cycling when I am on the bicycle. And even though I am absolutely no braver than anyone else out there on the streets and in the traffic. I try to remember that this is also a sport. Setting aside or properly controlling fear... not taking chances... but controlling my actions and responses is very much a part cycling.... and all sports.

Anger... is merely the fight or flight response to fear. It isn't just the traffic... a big part of the cyclist anger over traffic... is the emotional state of the cyclist.

 

[alienator]

Cager vs. cyclists is just an attempt to create an "us vs. them" generalization. The media, politicians and special have trained us generalize and factionize people for their benefit. Pedestrians, slower cyclists may make the same arguments about roadies. It is easy to make generalizations and gives us a warm fuzzy feeling that we are in the right. The reality is that out on the road its him or her vs. you; one person either voluntarily or involuntarily places another into harms way. It does not matter if it is a car driver, pedestrian, another cyclist, dog walker, mail main, etc. - we can all be threats to each other. On the roads, be aware of your environment, don't get complacent and assume that others will have your best interests in mind. Stay safe and, if needed, defend yourself and others' safety.

+1. It's important to note that most of us cyclists are at some point in our day, week, or month also cagers. I'm willing to bet that if a study were done it would find that the percentage of people driving like idiots is nearly identical to the percentage of cyclists riding like idiots, and in both cases those idiots are in a very small minority.

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .


I think the term is like all negative terms of hatred. If you are giving the OP a ride... you'd be a motorist. But get in the OP's way when cycling... you're a "cager".

It's just a darn shame that we can't live the dream [as described by the late Rodney King] and just all get along. I try to be a polite advocate of cycling when I am on the bicycle. And even though I am absolutely no braver than anyone else out there on the streets and in the traffic. I try to remember that this is also a sport. Setting aside or properly controlling fear... not taking chances... but controlling my actions and responses is very much a part cycling.... and all sports.

Anger... is merely the fight or flight response to fear. It isn't just the traffic... a big part of the cyclist anger over traffic... is the emotional state of the cyclist.

Nobody got in the OP's way. Read his post again.

Bicycling maybe a sport for you. For me it is a source of transportation, income, and recreation.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Rodney King was a dumbass. He drove like a dumbass and drove drunk. He drowned with alcohol, cocaine, marijuana and PCP found in his system.

Just sayin'.

Between the make-up appliers, the cell phone yakers, the texters, the eat-n-drivers, the achoholics, the druggies, the distracted, the half-blind elderly, the hell bent speeders, the youth with no clue, the overloaded trucks, the ill-maintained cars, the headphone blasters, the GPS guided missiles...'safe' drivers are the minority.

 

[jpr95]

I was going to say not to forget the drivers who are drowsy from working two or more jobs, but those numbers are rapidly dwindling... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

1. Rodney King was a dumbass. He drove like a dumbass and drove drunk. He drowned with alcohol, cocaine, marijuana and PCP found in his system.

Just sayin'.

2. Between the make-up appliers, the cell phone yakers, the texters, the eat-n-drivers, the achoholics, the druggies, the distracted, the half-blind elderly, the hell bent speeders, the youth with no clue, the overloaded trucks, the ill-maintained cars, the headphone blasters, the GPS guided missiles...'safe' drivers are the minority.

1. Yeah... I know. But I enjoy quoting Rodney as if he was a deep thinker or philosopher or something.... just my sense of humor.

2. It isn't safe on the streets and roads out there.... and I don't think the bike paths are much better. I think all drivers take turns being the bad drivers. Only a small percentage of drivers suck full-time. There are risks in everything we do. What can we do? Accept the risks... or stay home.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

I think all drivers take turns being the bad drivers.

You betcha.

In another life...I drove tow truck. I used to haul away the results of bad driving with chunks of bloody hair and hide still in them.

Accept the risks... or stay home.

For forty seasons I've accepted the risk.

Y'all ride safely out there! Good or bad, they ARE out to get you!

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Accept the risks... or stay home.

For forty seasons I've accepted the risk.

Y'all ride safely out there! Good or bad, they ARE out to get you!

I didn't mean that... as directed at you (or anyone else). It just sorta gets me that some cyclist don't or can't accept the risks... as normal. Your are right.... the cars are out to get us. They get us when we drive (if we drive), when we walk, and when we bicycle. Cars crash all the time. And whether we play in the traffic on bicycles for sport... or as a way and means of travel we become part of the same traffic... accidents included.

Of course there are protective measures we can take... to lower our risks. But even though the risks are very real... the risk is also low enough to be acceptable to most. But then... people continue to judge safety based on "feelings". So when a near accident frightens them (and of course that does happen) they lose the "feeling" of safety. Then they become fearful and.... angry (the old fight or flight response).

If cyclist (or anyone) can learn to accept the fear for what it is... and discard the fight or flight response... cycling (and life) could be a little easier.

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .


I didn't mean that... as directed at you (or anyone else). It just sorta gets me that some cyclist don't or can't accept the risks... as normal.

Many who aren't as accepting as you are working to reduce the risks of bicycle riding.

 

[jhuskey]

Originally Posted by qdc15 .


Many who aren't as accepting as you are working to reduce the risks of bicycle riding.

Thank you for stating that. Some of us have worked for years in efforts to educate the masses. It is a formidable task but you gotta try.I was involved in getting a 3 foot passing law passed a few year back and later someone smarter than me noted that we needed a "due care law".
All of this is eventually placed in the driver manual in a share the road context. If it saves one person it is worth the effort.

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by jhuskey .

.... If it saves one person it is worth the effort.

No. I am sorry... but I disagree. I understand the concept (MUCH more than you can imagine) as I spent much of my career in the safety field. But no human is ever, ever SAVED. Every human dies... we all die... no one is getting out of here alive! All any effort ever buys is reduced injuries and time. All those things can be calculated and priced. Every effort has a cost and many times the costs way out-weight the benefit. Not doing the math.... does not increase the worth. How can you comment of the worth... if you haven't calculated the cost?

Say you and I are brothers and Mom is in the nursing home. The doctors say... a special treatment could keep your Mom alive for another few weeks... we just need your checks. Are you saying there is NO amount that that you wouldn't chip in to "SAVE" Mom?

I understand the desire to play God and "save" those poor idiot souls from their own stupid behavior. But the concept that we can somehow plan-away risk through some central control... is although often well intentioned.... very misguided. I understand not every human has come to terms with their own mortality. But life is what it is... I can't pretend it is different.

 

[el gato]

Since I've been a motorcyclist and a bicyclist for many years, I accept the idea that I could become roadkill at any moment while riding. I also applaud the efforts of those who seek to make safer our two wheeled experiences.

 

[Dave Cutter]

I also applaud those who make efforts to make life better. Although... I also know that more often than not those efforts are misguided. Good people doing their damn best to make things better... can screw things up just as much as people who could care less.

It is sad... that you think you "could become roadkill at any moment". You WILL become roadkill... or at least dead... in moments from sometime. There is no mitigating death... it is 100% for certain. The concept that greatly intelligent central planners will somehow force us all to properly care for ourselves and behave in ways that eliminate risk, injury and death... is wrong. It is childish and misguided to think that humans can be controlled like cyborgs to create some Utopian accident free society.

The best, easiest way for any cyclist to cut thier chance of injury while cycling... is just don't. Stop cycling... and you will not be injured.

 

[el gato]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .



I also applaud those who make efforts to make life better. Although... I also know that more often than not those efforts are misguided. Good people doing their damn best to make things better... can screw things up just as much as people who could care less.

It is sad... that you think you "could become roadkill at any moment". You WILL become roadkill... or at least dead... in moments from sometime. There is no mitigating death... it is 100% for certain. The concept that greatly intelligent central planners will somehow force us all to properly care for ourselves and behave in ways that eliminate risk, injury and death... is wrong. It is childish and misguided to think that humans can be controlled like cyborgs to create some Utopian accident free society.

The best, easiest way for any cyclist to cut thier chance of injury while cycling... is just don't. Stop cycling... and you will not be injured.

I think there is a difference between dying in old age or having your body parts scattered about the road at the age of 30. That's just my perception of things I guess. I think reasonable people can agree that some safety features such as airbags and ABS brakes in cars are a good thing. I don't necessarily believe in helmet laws though I always wear one whether cycling or motorcycling. The city where I live is fairly new and they built the roads wide enough to allow cars and bikes to coexist. I see that as a worthwhile safety feature. Two wheeling on the pavement will always be a risky and I accept that.

 

[Dave Cutter]

Originally Posted by el gato .


I think there is a difference between dying in old age or having your body parts scattered about the road at the age of 30. That's just my perception of things I guess. .......
........ Two wheeling on the pavement will always be a risky and I accept that.

What about having your body parts splattered er... scattered at age 90? Death is death. Your perception is the same as the song quote earlier here. Like being old would be so uncomfortable and bad... that death would be preferred. I remember back during the war we would drink wine and sing "yippee we're all gonna die". I guess I don't understand your perceptions.

Two wheels, four wheels, smoking a cigar, drinking a large soda in NY City.... how do you calculate these risks? What mathematical formulas do you use? As long as we figure risk... using our emotions... our solutions will be irrational.

 

[qdc15]

There has been a lot of progress here in Washington, DC through improved infrastructure, bike lanes, bike paths, sharrows, signs explaining that "Bicycles are allowed full use of the lane", bike racks everywhere, laws requiring office buildings to provide indoor bike parking, the nation's largest bike share program, three foot law, etc. By making the roads safer for bikes, and by making bike riding more convenient, more people are encouraged to ride. The number of bicycles on the streets of DC has more than doubled in the last ten years. The increased number of bikes makes bicycling safer for all of us. Motorists learn to expect and look for bicycles on the road when bicycles are prevalent. Safer roads = more riders = safer cycling.

Dave, your experience in the field of safety does not appear to have left you with a lot of insight on bicycling safety specifically. Your comments seem to be based more on emotion than knowledge.

I disagree that nothing that can be done to improve the safety of bicycling or that attempts to improve conditions for cyclists are not worth the effort or money.

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by jhuskey .

Thank you for stating that. Some of us have worked for years in efforts to educate the masses. It is a formidable task but you gotta try.I was involved in getting a 3 foot passing law passed a few year back and later someone smarter than me noted that we needed a "due care law".
All of this is eventually placed in the driver manual in a share the road context. If it saves one person it is worth the effort.

Thank you for your work on behalf of cyclists in your area. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/icon14.gif

 

[qdc15]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .

No. I am sorry...

I understand the desire to play God and "save" those poor idiot souls from their own stupid behavior. But the concept that we can somehow plan-away risk through some central control... is although often well intentioned.... very misguided. I understand not every human has come to terms with their own mortality. But life is what it is... I can't pretend it is different.

We are bicyclists, not idiots behaving stupidly. Yes we will all die, but that is a poor reason not to improve conditions for those of us still living and for future generations.

 

[jhuskey]

Originally Posted by Dave Cutter .

No. I am sorry... but I disagree. I understand the concept (MUCH more than you can imagine) as I spent much of my career in the safety field. But no human is ever, ever SAVED. Every human dies... we all die... no one is getting out of here alive! All any effort ever buys is reduced injuries and time. All those things can be calculated and priced. Every effort has a cost and many times the costs way out-weight the benefit. Not doing the math.... does not increase the worth. How can you comment of the worth... if you haven't calculated the cost?

Say you and I are brothers and Mom is in the nursing home. The doctors say... a special treatment could keep your Mom alive for another few weeks... we just need your checks. Are you saying there is NO amount that that you wouldn't chip in to "SAVE" Mom?

I understand the desire to play God and "save" those poor idiot souls from their own stupid behavior. But the concept that we can somehow plan-away risk through some central control... is although often well intentioned.... very misguided. I understand not every human has come to terms with their own mortality. But life is what it is... I can't pretend it is different.

I think you have our permission to go ahead and expire today if you wish. If you know anyting about safety you might consider a concept called risk reduction. You make absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. I am guessing that you do not have a mother in a nursing home as I do and she has a living will, I am guessing that you never lost a child in car accident as I did. When you are laying on the pavement gasping for your last breath I am guessing that will change your mind about dying.
I don't contemplate dying I plan for the future and I think about how much living I can do today. By the way I take offense to the playing God reference. You have lost all credibility in my world.

 

[alienator]

I think you have our permission to go ahead and expire today if you wish. If you know anyting about safety you might consider a concept called risk reduction. You make absolutely no sense to me  whatsoever.  I am guessing that you do not have a mother in a nursing home as I do and she has a living will, I am guessing that you never lost a child in car accident as I did. When  you are laying on the pavement gasping for your last breath I am guessing that will change your mind about dying. I don't contemplate dying I plan for the future and I think about how much living I can do today. By the way I take offense to the playing God reference. You have lost all credibility in my world.

Well said.