Andy Schleck

Do you mean Andy "the Brother of the Friend of Basso's Dog" Schleck, who's DS is a doper and a liar?

Serafino said:

Do you mean Andy "the Brother of the Friend of Basso's Dog" Schleck, who's DS is a doper and a liar?

yep, and father Schleck was a pro too.

I think it's a little bit unfair to brand a kid as a doper simply because he is very talented. There has always been a lot of buzz about Frank's little brother and now that we got to see him it seems justified.

Serafino said:

Do you mean Andy "the Brother of the Friend of Basso's Dog" Schleck, who's DS is a doper and a liar just like Armstrong, Bruyneel, Hincapie and the other posties?

There I fixed it for you.

thecyclist said:

There I fixed it for you.

Seems to me that we've exposed Riis (Mr. Bee Pollen) already.

You seem to think that Riis' lies and doping is OK? Not much criticism for Riis and the CSC boys (they must be super clean because Riis says so right), but an obsession with DC.

Dopers are dopers. Liars are liars. Right now, we've seen CSC exposed.

I wouldn't say CSC has been exposed because Riis admiited using doping as a rider. It's not like CSC were seen dumping syringes or former CSC riders and assistens have revealed that there was organized doping going on on the team.

I have no reason to believe Schleck is doped.

This is one of the problems with doping. It is impossible to tell the clean from the dirty. If I was racing, I would squeal like a pig.

thunder said:

does anyone know a good doctor in Luxembourg?

I know of one in Valencia.

DV1976 said:

I think it's a little bit unfair to brand a kid as a doper simply because he is very talented. There has always been a lot of buzz about Frank's little brother and now that we got to see him it seems justified.

When you say "very talented" what exactly do you mean?
I can't see talent in keeping the pace up the steepest climbs with the best. Just strength and endurance. Strength very unusual for a 21 year old guy.

thecyclist said:

I wouldn't say CSC has been exposed because Riis admiited using doping as a rider.

Sure, Riis has a great history. Why would we doubt CSC. Riis was a doper (took the whole pharmacy from the sounds of it) and he ran a team (before CSC) which was subject to a doping scandal.

Then, of course, we have the two CSC leaders Tyler and Basso who were obviously doping (or "thinking" of it) while they were Riis' golden boys. No reason to think that there was doping at CSC at all 🙄

Add Sastre saying that he stands behind Riis 100% :eek: and Julich and Jen's "anti-doping" stance and can start asking some serious questions about the situation at the ProTours best team.

Not saying others don't dope, but how can you argue that CSC is clean?

Andrija said:

When you say "very talented" what exactly do you mean?
I can't see talent in keeping the pace up the steepest climbs with the best. Just strength and endurance. Strength very unusual for a 21 year old guy.

This doesn't make sense. Rephrase it if you want because you contradict yourself...
One thing is for fans to be suspicious and quite another to start a witch hunt? If a guy does well young then "it's very unusual for a 21 yr old guy". If someone starts doing well at 25-26 "where has he been all these years"?
Ullrich won the Tour at 22 why is it so difficult for someone to hold the wheel of Arroyo or the 35year old Simoni?

BTW. It's pathetic to brand everyone a cheater, liar e.t.c (and this doesn't go to Andrija) simply because someone realised that their poster boy isn't the miracle he was supposed to be...

Serafino said:

Sure, Riis has a great history. Why would we doubt CSC. Riis was a doper (took the whole pharmacy from the sounds of it) and he ran a team (before CSC) which was subject to a doping scandal.

Then, of course, we have the two CSC leaders Tyler and Basso who were obviously doping (or "thinking" of it) while they were Riis' golden boys. No reason to think that there was doping at CSC at all 🙄

Add Sastre saying that he stands behind Riis 100% :eek: and Julich and Jen's "anti-doping" stance and can start asking some serious questions about the situation at the ProTours best team.

Not saying others don't dope, but how can you argue that CSC is clean?

You have a point about Hamilton and Basso but you have no right to say things such as

"
Do you mean Andy "the Brother of the Friend of Basso's Dog" Schleck, who's DS is a doper and a liar?"

Speculation from OP targets the Brother of the Friend of Basso. How many riders can that refer to .... its a legitimate question.

Jan "won" the TdF at 22 but we already know how pervasive doping was at Telekom. So what's you point exactly? Jan likely doped to win (given his teammates history) means that Andy doesn't dope.

P.S. I hope that Andy doesn't dope, but some have blind faith in Riis/CSC when the evidence seems to at least point to suspicions based upon passed practice, doping busts, and Riis' history.

Then again, it could be the "bonding" and "bee pollen".

Serafino said:

Speculation from OP targets the Brother of the Friend of Basso. How many riders can that refer to .... its a legitimate question.

Jan "won" the TdF at 22 but we already know how pervasive doping was at Telekom. So what's you point exactly? Jan likely doped to win (given his teammates history) means that Andy doesn't dope.

P.S. I hope that Andy doesn't dope, but some have blind faith in Riis/CSC when the evidence seems to at least point to suspicions based upon passed practice, doping busts, and Riis' history.

Then again, it could be the "bonding" and "bee pollen".

The point I wanted to make and which didn't come across (or you managed to miss it) is that it's not such a big deal for someone young to do well in his first grand Tour.... And I mentioned Ullrich as an example but I could have mention Hinault (if my memory serves me right)... The fact that doping was pervasive in Telekom then is irrelevant. Everybody was doing the same thing...
I think that Ricco and Niballi are at least as impressive and if they could ride for themselves (like Schlek) and not try to win the race for their leaders they would (probably) have had as good a placing (if not better) as Schlek.
The problem you have with Schlek is that he rides for CSC and hired from Riis. If he was riding for Disco you'd probably be prasing him...

No, I sincerely hope that Andy is not doping and don't believe that he'd be stupid enough to do so. Primarily for his health.

All I'm saying is that some automatically assume some are clean and that others are dirty.

Many here think DC is dirty and yet maintain, despite recent history, that CSC is clean. You can't have it both ways.

DiLuca is doing well and some say its "too well". Why then is someone else exempt from doubt when their performance is even more impressive IMO given their history (youth)?

Serafino said:

No, I sincerely hope that Andy is not doping and don't believe that he'd be stupid enough to do so. Primarily for his health.

All I'm saying is that some automatically assume some are clean and that others are dirty.

Many here think DC is dirty and yet maintain, despite recent history, that CSC is clean. You can't have it both ways.

DiLuca is doing well and some say its "too well". Why then is someone else exempt from doubt when their performance is even more impressive IMO given their history (youth)?

1) I didn't say anything about DC or CSC
2) The way you phrased your post about Schlek you implied that he dopes and in a quite sarcastic manner. That is what i objected to
3) Young riders must have the benefit of the doubt for the very reason that they have no past history. Moreover, historically, the Giro gives more opportunities to young riders to shine than, say, the Tour. Schlek isn't doing anything that spectacular. If that was the Tour then yes I would be seriously impressed but you have to judge the rider against his competition and his competition isn't what has been in previous years.

Schlek isn't doing anything that spectacular.[/QUOTE]

BEG TO DIFFER!

If clean, this guy is a massive talent. On a par with the 2004 Cunego.

Slight change of thread, because I am sick of reading about doping on 9 out of 10 threads, even though we need to face it and it is a big issue.

Can Schleck win the Giro? Very few seem to mention his name in the same breath as the other current top 5.

Whether he wins or not, he is my pick and I would like nothing more than to see him on top of the Zoncolan tomorrow having put himself in a winning position by taking the stage. 🙂

Andrew76 said:

Slight change of thread, because I am sick of reading about doping on 9 out of 10 threads, even though we need to face it and it is a big issue.

Can Schleck win the Giro? Very few seem to mention his name in the same breath as the other current top 5.

Whether he wins or not, he is my pick and I would like nothing more than to see him on top of the Zoncolan tomorrow having put himself in a winning position by taking the stage. 🙂

remarkable strength, remarkable climbing. You are either looking at the next great GT rider, or a fraud.