The other really nasty one to watch for when scooting up the left is that one of the queuing vehicles may allow a gap to open up in front and flash their headlights to allow an oncoming vehicle to turn right into a side road. This can be hard to spot especially if the gap- leaver is a large vehicle, and the right-turner tends to go fast to get through the gap. Be extra careful when passing side roads.
Then there's the peds crossing between stationary vehicles to avoid too...
I don't think I could overtake on the outside yet as its enough work thinking about traffic on my side let alone on-coming.
I think you'll find that it's actually easier and safer on the outside. You have to watch for the traffic to start moving to time your move back to the inside, and also watch for other two-wheeled thingies already on the outside.
Don't follow the example in LSMike's video though until you do have more experience :-)
In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
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Highway rule 163 tells you that you should "only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so" and "stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left". Basically, they're saying it's not a good idea to overtake someone on the left hand side. I really can't see how you're going to get very far in a compensation case if you were directly disobeying the highway code.
OTOH Cyclecraft, which is published by the Stationary Office, says it is acceptable and accepted practice for bike to pass on the left with care. It is also common enough for long enough to be unlikely to be successfully challenged in Court. I tend to prefer the right but mix left and right in dense traffic according to circumstances.
-- Tony
" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Bertrand Russell
On Oct 31, 8:47 pm, "burtthebike" <[email hidden]>
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"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
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In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
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Undertaking is permitted if traffic is stopped or slow moving. You'd do well to avoid considering the legality of it though, better aim to avoid getting left hook'ed. Expect drivers to turn left at junctions, they frequently don't look for cyclists on their left.
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Or the passenger that decides to jump out of a queued vehicle and flings the door into your path with gay abandon.
Excuse me, but I don't think there's any place on this group for sexual discrimination.
You can't/shouldn't when there is little room or vehicles are turning right. You could then just stop and wait.
IME there's often more room on the right than there is on the left,
I agree there is "often" more room on the right, but there is also often more room on the left - particularly on main roads with one lane in each direction. Vehicles then tend to be positioned closer to the middle of the road than the edge.
I use whichever side is more convenient and only proceed in either case when I think it is safe enough. Just as you do on the left, when overtaking on the right, you either have to keep your speed very low or allow loads of room.
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and it's far less likely to disappear than room on the LHS of a car. I'd prefer not to end up under a car than to chance it on the basis that the driver should be checking over his left shoulder...
There are plenty of times when it's unlikely for a car to steer left - most obviously when it's stationary in a long queue of traffic on a straight bit of road with no turnings.
The other really nasty one to watch for when scooting up the left is that one of the queuing vehicles may allow a gap to open up in front and flash their headlights to allow an oncoming vehicle to turn right into a side road. This can be hard to spot especially if the gap- leaver is a large vehicle, and the right-turner tends to go fast to get through the gap. Be extra careful when passing side roads.
Then there's the peds crossing between stationary vehicles to avoid too...
Peds crossing between stationary vehicles are more of a problem (because they're harder to spot) when you're filtering up the outside than when going up the inside, though. Many years ago I almost hit a ped when she stepped in front of me as I filtered (slowly) up the outside of a queue of cars on my motorbike.
-- Danny Colyer <http://www.redpedals.co.uk> Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often "The plural of anecdote is not data" - Frank Kotsonis
The other really nasty one to watch for when scooting up the left is that one of the queuing vehicles may allow a gap to open up in front and flash their headlights to allow an oncoming vehicle to turn right into a side road. This can be hard to spot especially if the gap- leaver is a large vehicle, and the right-turner tends to go fast to get through the gap. Be extra careful when passing side roads.
That's just as much a problem on the outside as it is on the left, IMO.
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Then there's the peds crossing between stationary vehicles to avoid too...
Peds crossing between stationary vehicles are more of a problem (because they're harder to spot) when you're filtering up the outside than when going up the inside, though. Many years ago I almost hit a ped when she stepped in front of me as I filtered (slowly) up the outside of a queue of cars on my motorbike.
[ Hope I haven't mashed the attributions. Apologies if so ]
LSMike said:
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POHB said:
The other really nasty one to watch for when scooting up the left is that one of the queuing vehicles may allow a gap to open up in front and flash their headlights to allow an oncoming vehicle to turn right
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That's just as much a problem on the outside as it is on the left, IMO.
On the outside, at least the oncoming vehicle can (might) see you. On the inside, that's less likely.
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I think peds are just as hard to spot when filtering on either side.
I find peds easier to spot when I'm on the outside: when cycling in the gutter, a pedestrian might step off the pavement without a moment's notice, whereas if I'm in the middle of the road at least they'll have had to cross a lane of traffic before they're in a position to collide with me, and I get a reasonable chance to see them through windscreens/over the car roofs/etc
On the outside, at least the oncoming vehicle can (might) see you. On the inside, that's less likely.
The imporatnt distinction is that on the outside you can see the oncoming vehicle that is about to turn right, if you're on the inside you are hidden from each other by the big vehicle that has stopped for it.
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I find peds easier to spot when I'm on the outside: when cycling in the gutter, a pedestrian might step off the pavement without a moment's notice, whereas if I'm in the middle of the road at least they'll have had to cross a lane of traffic before they're in a position to collide with me, and I get a reasonable chance to see them through windscreens/over the car roofs/etc
Also, peds crossing from your right think they're home safe and dash for the kerb across your path when you're on the inside, whereas if you're on the outside they're more careful coz they're stepping out into the middle of the road.
Neither of which mean I don't scoot up the inside, but I do it slowly and carefully (mostly).
[ Hope I haven't mashed the attributions. Apologies if so ]
LSMike said:
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On 01/11/2007 10:58, POHB wrote: > The other really nasty one to watch for when scooting up the left is > that one of the queuing vehicles may allow a gap to open up in front > and flash their headlights to allow an oncoming vehicle to turn right
That's just as much a problem on the outside as it is on the left, IMO.
On the outside, at least the oncoming vehicle can (might) see you. On the inside, that's less likely.
but someone in a left hand side road turning right onto the road you are on can't
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I think peds are just as hard to spot when filtering on either side.
I find peds easier to spot when I'm on the outside: when cycling in the gutter, a pedestrian might step off the pavement without a moment's notice, whereas if I'm in the middle of the road at least they'll have had to cross a lane of traffic before they're in a position to collide with me, and I get a reasonable chance to see them through windscreens/over the car roofs/etc
Filtering on the offside either gives you more space (no oncoming taffic) or makes the crossing ped more circumspect (moving oncoming taffic). filtering between two way stationary traffic offers no advantage but isn't much worse than the inside of a queue. You just have to slow down as you pass large vehicles that are stationary
[ Hope I haven't mashed the attributions. Apologies if so ]
LSMike said:
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On 01/11/2007 10:58, POHB wrote: > The other really nasty one to watch for when scooting up the left is > that one of the queuing vehicles may allow a gap to open up in front > and flash their headlights to allow an oncoming vehicle to turn right
That's just as much a problem on the outside as it is on the left, IMO.
On the outside, at least the oncoming vehicle can (might) see you. On the inside, that's less likely.
What about vehicles turning right out of the side road, across your path? That's why this particular factor is not one for choosing between under/overtaking. I should probably have explained myself better in my first response given the attribution, because I place both situations together - both are right turners and each has either under or overtaking as most likely to conceal.
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I think peds are just as hard to spot when filtering on either side.
I find peds easier to spot when I'm on the outside: when cycling in the gutter, a pedestrian might step off the pavement without a moment's notice, whereas if I'm in the middle of the road at least they'll have had to cross a lane of traffic before they're in a position to collide with me, and I get a reasonable chance to see them through windscreens/over the car roofs/etc
YMMV, mine often does.
-dan
It's even easier to see them on the pavement, LOL!
I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday. Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers getting bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It made me think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?
(i) Yes, you have the same rights any other road user has. (ii) Don't /ever/ overtake on the inside - rights are no use when you're dead.
Seriously, get some training in road riding, and/or get and read a copy of Cyclecraft. You shouldn't /be/ close enough to the kerb to overtake on the inside. If there's queueing traffic, go up the right-hand side of the right-most left turning lane.
"Shumit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Hi
I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday. Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers getting bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It made me think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?
Regardless of what you were doing, a driver is in the wrong if they turn or open a door without checking it is safe first. You would have the right to compensation if yourself or your bike was damaged.
While all this is true, it's better to be alive than compensated. If you can't overtake on the outside, wait in the queue.
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You have to assume doors could open on the right hand side as well.
Absolutely. Never cycle fast close to stopped cars with people in them.
(i) Yes, you have the same rights any other road user has. (ii) Don't /ever/ overtake on the inside - rights are no use when you're dead.
Seriously, get some training in road riding, and/or get and read a copy of Cyclecraft. You shouldn't /be/ close enough to the kerb to overtake on the inside. If there's queueing traffic, go up the right-hand side of the right-most left turning lane.
I don't want to encourage anyone to overtake more often than they feel comfortable doing already (on either side), but the idea that overtaking on the left necessarily leads to death is a bit OTT!
Cyclecraft does not say you should never do it, and there's often penty of room to, IME.
You have to be realistic for your safety advice to be taken seriously. This is something Cyclecraft is good at. Not too many "nevers" and "alwayses" in there.
I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday. Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers getting bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It made me think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?
(i) Yes, you have the same rights any other road user has. (ii) Don't /ever/ overtake on the inside - rights are no use when you're dead.
Seriously, get some training in road riding, and/or get and read a copy of Cyclecraft. You shouldn't /be/ close enough to the kerb to overtake on the inside. If there's queueing traffic, go up the right-hand side of the right-most left turning lane.
I'm with Pete, I don't think it's always wrong to undertake. Sometimes it's the safer option, though I'd agree that most of the time overtaking is better. Regardless, it should always be done carefully (probably much more so than my recent extreme example), and there's nothing wrong with waiting in the queue either.
