almost first crash

Shumit said:

Hi

I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday.
Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit
twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers getting
bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It made me
think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt
myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

thanks,Shumit

IMHO, if there isn't a cycle lane up the inside of the stationary
vehicles, you are asking for trouble by riding up the inside. With
growing experience, you will learn how to handle passing stationary
vehicles on the outside.

David Lloyd

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Undertaking is permitted if traffic is stopped or slow moving. You'd do
well to avoid considering the legality of it though, better aim to avoid
getting left hook'ed. Expect drivers to turn left at junctions, they
frequently don't look for cyclists on their left.

Or the passenger that decides to jump out of a queued vehicle and flings
the door into your path with gay abandon.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Shumit said:

do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt
myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

Undertaking is permitted if traffic is stopped or slow moving. You'd do
well to avoid considering the legality of it though, better aim to avoid
getting left hook'ed. Expect drivers to turn left at junctions, they
frequently don't look for cyclists on their left.

--
Membrane

Shumit said the following on 31/10/2007 16:34:

Quoted message said:

I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday.
Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit
twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers getting
bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It made me
think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt
myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

I don't know about legal rights, but you quite quickly learn that
sliding down the inside is best not done at all, or at least very slowly
expecting to be hit by a passenger opening a door or a car turning left.
Passengers seem to be even worse than drivers at flinging doors open
randomly without checking - one got quite irate when I slammed the door
back on her once (I was walking on the pavement at the time and needed
to protect parts of my anatomy that are not designed to be walloped into
a door!).

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Shumit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday.
Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit
twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers getting
bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It made me
think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt
myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

Why not just overtake on the right hand side? The only times I find it looks
worrying is when there are two HGVs or buses passing each other, and in that
case, I don't bother. I find it much simpler than passing on the inside,
risking being knocked off every 5 minutes by people turning without
signalling and car doors opening.

Shumit said:

Hi

do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt
myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

I'd suggest very few and that if you're 'overtaking' it should be done
on the outside of traffic, so long as it's safe to do so.

--
Paul - [censored]

Shumit said:

I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday.
Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit
twice, within a mile of my home.

Eeek. Don't do that!

Car drivers simply don't expect to be overtaken on the inside by another
vehicle (you are one!) when there's no actual lane there. Passengers
won't be expecting traffic there, either, and might just decide to hop
out and walk the rest of the way...and you get a door in your face.

If you overtake on the inside where there's no lane to do so, it's only
a matter of weeks before you come to grief.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

Doki said:

"Shumit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out
yesterday. Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost
got hit twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers
getting bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It
made me think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike
and hurt myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

Regardless of what you were doing, a driver is in the wrong if they turn or
open a door without checking it is safe first. You would have the right to
compensation if yourself or your bike was damaged. Perhaps you would get
less if you were in the wrong too, but overtaking on the inside isn't
necessarily ilegal.

But of course on a practical note you should be careful and assume anyone
could turn at any moment, so allow plenty of room/time, and be prepared to
stop and wait instead.

Quoted message said:

Why not just overtake on the right hand side?

You can't/shouldn't when there is little room or vehicles are turning right.
You could then just stop and wait. Personally, though, I often overtake on
the left when there is plenty of room there.

You have to assume doors could open on the right hand side as well.

~PB

Dylan Smith said:

If you overtake on the inside where there's no lane to do so, it's
only a matter of weeks before you come to grief.
--
From the sunny Isle of Man.

You'd make slow progress in London if you never overtook on the inside.
I've not come to any grief in all the years I've been doing it (slowly,
carefully and selectively).

~PB

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Undertaking is permitted if traffic is stopped or slow moving. You'd do
well to avoid considering the legality of it though, better aim to avoid
getting left hook'ed. Expect drivers to turn left at junctions, they
frequently don't look for cyclists on their left.

Or the passenger that decides to jump out of a queued vehicle and flings
the door into your path with gay abandon.

Excuse me, but I don't think there's any place on this group for sexual
discrimination.

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Regardless of what you were doing, a driver is in the wrong if
they turn or open a door without checking it is safe first...

Regardless of who is in the wrong, it's the cyclist who gets hurt
:-(

I prefer defensive riding. And observation, observation,
observation (to mis-quote our former Prime Minister).

Twice last week, I nearly T-boned vehicles that crossed in front
of me - one from my right, and one from my left. In the second
case, a driver waiting in a traffic queue had "flashed him on",
although I was overtaking on the offside. I saw the flash and
braked hard - missing a collision by thousandths of an inch. In
the first case, either the driver "looked but did not see", or
assumed I was moving slowly (because "it's only a bike"😉.

--
MatSav

MatSav said:

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Regardless of what you were doing, a driver is in the wrong if
they turn or open a door without checking it is safe first...

Regardless of who is in the wrong, it's the cyclist who gets hurt
:-(

I prefer defensive riding. And observation, observation,
observation (to mis-quote our former Prime Minister).

I agree with you and virtually said the same thing in my next comment.

~PB

"Shumit" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out yesterday.
Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit
twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers getting
bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It made me
think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike and hurt
myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

If there is any space in front of a vehicle always assume it can move into
it. I only overtake if there is nowhere for it to go.

Pete Biggs said:

Dylan Smith said:

If you overtake on the inside where there's no lane to do so, it's
only a matter of weeks before you come to grief.
--
From the sunny Isle of Man.

You'd make slow progress in London if you never overtook on the inside.
I've not come to any grief in all the years I've been doing it (slowly,
carefully and selectively).

~PB

it does depend on time and place, out of preferance i chose the outside
than the inside, it also depends on the traffic, if it's totaly snarled
up then yes some filtering.

but the thing about filtering, is that you are traveling though
cars/vans blind spots so care and thought is needed.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Dylan Smith said:

Eeek. Don't do that!

If you overtake on the inside where there's no lane to do so, it's only
a matter of weeks before you come to grief.

From the sunny Isle of Man.

Sounds like the Isle of Man is a very dangerous place to cycle. I've
been overtaking on the inside in Manchester and London for 20 years
without coming to grief.

But of course you can't do it at full speed with your eyes closed.

Shumit said:

Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost got hit
twice, within a mile of my home.

What do you mean by almost hit? Did they graze past you at high speed
as you stood the bike on its front wheel by braking frantically, or
were you caused to slow slightly to let them make their turn?

They didn't actually hit you. You've gained some valuable experience
in riding in traffic. Sounds like a good result to me.

Thanks for all the advice. The two 'almost accidents' ended with me
about 2-3 feet away from the vehicles with all brakes smoking.
Although the distance may not sound like a lot a split second later
braking would have resulted in a collision. Also the experience of the
first incident didnt help me on the second - if a car is going to pull
left suddenly we are at their mercy.

I don't think I could overtake on the outside yet as its enough work
thinking about traffic on my side let alone on-coming. I reckon it
will be slowly up the inside for now and hope Ive had my fair share
for this year.

Shumit

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doki said:

"Shumit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

I have bought my first real bike (Trek 7.0) and took it out
yesterday. Riding on the inside of some stationary traffic I almost
got hit twice, within a mile of my home. Both times were car drivers
getting bored and opting to turn left without indicating, etc. It
made me think , do I have any rights if I get knocked off my bike
and hurt myself. Particularly if I am overtaking on the inside?

Regardless of what you were doing, a driver is in the wrong if they turn
or open a door without checking it is safe first. You would have the
right to compensation if yourself or your bike was damaged. Perhaps you
would get less if you were in the wrong too, but overtaking on the inside
isn't necessarily ilegal.

But of course on a practical note you should be careful and assume anyone
could turn at any moment, so allow plenty of room/time, and be prepared to
stop and wait instead.

Quoted message said:

Why not just overtake on the right hand side?

You can't/shouldn't when there is little room or vehicles are turning
right. You could then just stop and wait.

IME there's often more room on the right than there is on the left, and it's
far less likely to disappear than room on the LHS of a car. I'd prefer not
to end up under a car than to chance it on the basis that the driver should
be checking over his left shoulder...

Quoted message said:

Personally, though, I often overtake on the left when there is plenty of
room there.

Highway rule 163 tells you that you should "only overtake on the left if the
vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so"
and "stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue
on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left".
Basically, they're saying it's not a good idea to overtake someone on the
left hand side. I really can't see how you're going to get very far in a
compensation case if you were directly disobeying the highway code.

Quoted message said:

You have to assume doors could open on the right hand side as well.

That's a possibility, but most cars only have one or two occupants, and most
drivers don't tend to get out of their cars. The likelihood of it happening
is far lower IMO. People turning right also tend to also give more cues in
terms of road position than people about to turn left, even if they don't
indicate.

"Shumit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all the advice. The two 'almost accidents' ended with me
about 2-3 feet away from the vehicles with all brakes smoking.
Although the distance may not sound like a lot a split second later
braking would have resulted in a collision. Also the experience of the
first incident didnt help me on the second - if a car is going to pull
left suddenly we are at their mercy.

I don't think I could overtake on the outside yet as its enough work
thinking about traffic on my side let alone on-coming. I reckon it
will be slowly up the inside for now and hope Ive had my fair share
for this year.

It really is far less daunting than it sounds.