Ah Larry!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No,no, no...Lennon and McCartney were NOT trying to change the world.

That was a political song in answer to the Stone's Revolution. The Stones wanted one and the Beatles
objected, saying essentially that it was easy to advocate revolution, but destructive to do so.<<

Yes, I'm aware of that. Consider again in the context of my response to your post to me.

"But if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow..."

"Don't ya know it's going to be...all right. All right."

(Larry Weisenthal) said:

"But if you go carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao, You ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow..."

or

"So if you want money for people with minds that hate, All I can tell you is brother, you
have to wait,"

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

rtk <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message :
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And Larry added:

Quoted message said:

Maybe some day I will give it a try. Right now I'm preoccupied with trying to change US foreign
policy

Hope you succeed. Otherwise we will continue see your country drift away from the rest of our world,
more powerfull and feared than ever, but with its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and afraid
when they walk across the planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...

-- Olivier

Olivier said:

rtk <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message :
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And Larry added:

Quoted message said:

Maybe some day I will give it a try. Right now I'm preoccupied with trying to change US foreign
policy

Hope you succeed. Otherwise we will continue see your country drift away from the rest of our
world, more powerfull and feared than ever, but with its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and
afraid when they walk across the planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...

-- Olivier

Larry gets all the credit for trying to make the needed changes. I just buy more French wine. Hey,
we all do what we can.

Ruth K

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and afraid when they walk across the

planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...>> One of my daughters is living and coaching
in Zurich right now. She feels little sensitivity over being a Yank, but has frequently clarified
for various folks that a large portion of the US populace -- our family included -- are deeply at
odds with the policies and attitudes of our appointed-not-elected prez. Terry Laughlin

In article said:

Hope you succeed. Otherwise we will continue see your country drift away from the rest of our
world, more powerfull and feared than ever, but with its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and
afraid when they walk across the planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...

with those headers, I'm not sure if this is a German comment or a French one. Either one could
stand for a pretty good crack on their own foreign policy, or gross lack thereof. The US is getting
stuck with a lot of the dirty work that no one else will do. You can complain that its not doing
exactly what you want, but perhaps an active role, one that is not so financially motivated, would
be in order.

(And while I think the French have been useless this year, I have no reluctance to keep buying wine,
or cheese. And I'll keep flying about as travel time allows)

now can we get back to cheese!?
--
Jason O'Rourke www.jor.com

You libs just don't get it. I am so going to enjoy the trouncing of the Dems in 2004!

Charlatan and liberal, it must suck to be you.

Don

"Totalswimm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and afraid when they walk across

the

Quoted message said:

planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...>> One of my daughters is living and
coaching in Zurich right now. She feels little sensitivity over being a Yank, but has frequently
clarified for

various

Quoted message said:

folks that a large portion of the US populace -- our family included --

are

Quoted message said:

deeply at odds with the policies and attitudes of our

appointed-not-elected

Quoted message said:

prez. Terry Laughlin

"Totalswimm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and afraid when they walk across

the

Quoted message said:

planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...>> One of my daughters is living and
coaching in Zurich right now. She feels little sensitivity over being a Yank, but has frequently
clarified for

various

Quoted message said:

folks that a large portion of the US populace -- our family included --

are

Quoted message said:

deeply at odds with the policies and attitudes of our

appointed-not-elected

Quoted message said:

prez.

I love it. Yanks getting on the Euro bus to substantiate anti- US sentiment. Hell, I did the same
thing when Clinton was president. Euros thought he was pretty much useless as well. "Oh no, I'm not
one of them, I think Bill's a big wuss too!" My Euro buds loved me. I've seen some people
automatically agree with any political Euro view point just to make friends and have an
international feel good moment. I find Euros are no different regarding political opinions than
Americans. Lots of people with different and various ideas.

Rick Swanger (Gore was almost "appointed"😉

Olivier: Thanks for your encouragement. I wish there were grounds for optimism.

Often, I'm reminded of one big difference between Clinton and Bush. When Clinton lied, he really,
really wanted you to believe him. He was hurt if you didn't. Bush doesn't care if you believe him or
not. His job isn't to convince you, it's to read the script and walk off

about $100 billion of war-for-oil.)

The Stones never had a song called "Revolution." You may be thinking of their great "Street Fighting
Man." And a correct reading of the Beatles' song probably is that it's for revolution of some sort,
just not the type premised on Mao and on destruction.

I enjoy the swimming discussion and tips on this site - even, sometimes, the dustups between the TI
advocates and bashers. But it's also gratifying to learn that it's populated by old people - like me
- whose politics and musical tastes are stuck in the 60s. Happy Turkey all.

misterp

"Olivier" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

rtk <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message :
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And Larry added:

Quoted message said:

Maybe some day I will give it a try. Right now I'm preoccupied with trying to change US
foreign policy

Hope you succeed. Otherwise we will continue see your country drift away from the rest of our
world, more powerfull and feared than ever, but with its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and
afraid when they walk across the planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...

-- Olivier

Totalswimm said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and afraid when they walk across the

planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...>> One of my daughters is living and
coaching in Zurich right now. She feels little sensitivity over being a Yank, but has frequently
clarified for various folks that a large portion of the US populace -- our family included -- are
deeply at odds with the policies and attitudes of our appointed-not-elected prez. Terry Laughlin

I have yet to meet an American who has experienced any problem in Europe created by the apparent
differences between the stereotypical political views of the US and Europe. The relationships you
have as an individual aren't based in governmental politics or religious dogma. On the other hand,
I haven't met any conservative Americans living in Europe. I suspect that most Americans who leave
the US to live and work as expatriots are more liberal than the average American. You have to have
that kind of flexibility, when it comes to changing cultures and continents, if you expect to
thrive doing it.

martin

Donald Graft said:

You libs just don't get it. I am so going to enjoy the trouncing of the Dems in 2004!

Charlatan and liberal, it must suck to be you.

Another compassionate watch-wearing conservative heard from.

martin

Swanger said:

I love it. Yanks getting on the Euro bus to substantiate anti- US sentiment. Hell, I did the same
thing when Clinton was president. Euros thought he was pretty much useless as well. "Oh no, I'm
not one of them, I think Bill's a big wuss too!" My Euro buds loved me. I've seen some people
automatically agree with any political Euro view point just to make friends and have an
international feel good moment. I find Euros are no different regarding political opinions than
Americans. Lots of people with different and various ideas.

Wow, where did you live in Europe? I don't believe a word of what you said. President Clinton was
and remains very popular in Europe. You know what substantiate means, right?

martin

It used to be that when the name [censored] was invoked in a post, that was the cue to end the thread.
While not suggesting a parallel between that name and the names of any of our presidents, I
nevertheless think that all constructive exchange of ideas ceases with the name Bush. So, at Larry's
request I switched the subject line to Ah Butterfly! my most favorite/unfavorite stroke.

I have a love-hate relationship with the stroke. Because of some fault-blessing in the construction
of my shoulder and ankle joints, I was born to do butterfly. I am obliged to use this talent daily
and that's where the hate part of the relationship comes in. It's too hard. I sound like I'm
practicing my obscene phone calls techniques the very few times I breathe. Coming up for air is far
too strenuous, so I don't do it. Therefore I'm limited to swimming only 50's in competition. I tried
75 in practice once and got as far as 72 before I went vertical. The best I've done was long ago
when I was a distant second in the top ten ratings, left way behind by the 100 record setter in the
Olympics. Still, not shabby for someone who at the time had only just learned it. So clearly I can't
abandon the stroke. At this point I should be asking a question. I can't think of one. I'm just
substantiating the change of subject line and I have ten minutes before I drive to the airport and
fly off to Dallas. I'm wearing smelly shoes because I invariably am chosen as the suspicious one
although I always fly with a bona fide Turk, dark skinned, mustachioed, accented - wthe whole
enchillada, I mean dolmas. Yet it's me that gets the once over. Make that three minutes. And I'm
off.... (to a vegetarian thanksgiving)

Ruth Kazez

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 07:40:35 +0100, M.W.Smith wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

conservative Americans living in Europe. I suspect that most Americans who leave the US to live
and work as expatriots are more liberal than the average American. You have to have that kind of
flexibility, when it comes to changing cultures and continents, if you expect to thrive doing
it.

martin

I suspect that most any demographic anywhere is more liberal then american conservatives in america.

--Mike

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 12:22:56 +0000, rtk wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I sound like I'm practicing my obscene phone calls techniques the very few times I breathe.
Coming up for air is far too strenuous, so I don't do it. Therefore I'm limited to swimming only
50's in competition. I tried 75 in practice once and got as far as 72 before I went vertical.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Ruth Kazez

Well, I hesitate to offer any actual advice, as the post was, umm, entertaining 😉 but I do
have this:

Try swimming some fly with fins, but get someone to watch you. Ensure that your 'spotter' is looking
to see that you're breathing early (head starts coming up before the hands get to armpits) and that
your hips are high after every breath (breaking the surface, preferably with the lower back high as
well, but not the feet/fins).

I like to think of the stroke as being a little like a rocking chair. A drill I used to like, esp
early season when the feel was off, worked something like a 'reverse banana'. When doing bananas you
lie on your back, raise both head & feet (for a nice smooth banana curve) and rock back and forth.
For this drill try the same thing, but on your front. It takes some measure of lower back strength
and some flexibility. When you've got that try putting in the hands as well. They should start at
your sides when your head is high and then swing out until they're a little wider then shoulder
width ('above' your head) - ie the entry position.

--Mike

Quoted message said:

One of my daughters is living and coaching in Zurich right now. She feels little sensitivity over
being a Yank, but has frequently clarified for various folks that a large portion of the US
populace -- our family included -- are deeply at odds with the policies and attitudes of our
appointed-not-elected prez. Terry Laughlin

This discussion of an 'appointed-not-elected president' is flat wrong. If you want to dredge up
election day misdeeds, how about 1960 when 'Da Mayor' Richard Daley, Mayor of Chicago, assured
victory for John Kennedy, by having a 'large portion' of Illinois' DECEASED populace rise from the
dead to vote for Kennedy.

Like it or not, George Bush IS the President of the United States and, he has taken an oath to
protect the US. We can only speculate if things would have been different, better, or worse under
Gore's leadership.

That said, as a citizen of the US, it is your right to publicly disagree with the President's
policies and decisions. I would also remind you that there are many U.S. soldiers who died in combat
to protect this right. And, I'll bet they didn't vote in the last election.

Bill Geiser

"M.W.Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Swanger said:

I love it. Yanks getting on the Euro bus to substantiate anti- US
sentiment. Hell, I did the same thing when Clinton was president.

Euros

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thought he was pretty much useless as well. "Oh no, I'm not one of

them, I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

think Bill's a big wuss too!" My Euro buds loved me. I've seen some people automatically agree
with any political Euro view point just to

make

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

friends and have an international feel good moment. I find Euros are no different regarding
political opinions than Americans. Lots of people

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

different and various ideas.

Wow, where did you live in Europe? I don't believe a word of what you

said.

Quoted message said:

President Clinton was and remains very popular in Europe. You know what substantiate means, right?

I've been doing business there for years. As I said,,,Europeans have just as much varied opinions as
Americans. Yes, I've met plenty of Euros who thought Clinton was alright but many more who viewed
him as a disingenuous clown. So what? I've never, nor should anyone else apologize. Every country or
state has plenty to pillory about.

Rick Swanger

"M.W.Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Totalswimm said:

Quoted message said:

>its brave citizen so lonely, threatened and afraid when they walk

across the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

planet, for the few of them who will still dare that...>> One of my daughters is living and
coaching in Zurich right now. She

feels

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

little sensitivity over being a Yank, but has frequently clarified for

various

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

folks that a large portion of the US populace -- our family included --

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

deeply at odds with the policies and attitudes of our

appointed-not-elected

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

prez. Terry Laughlin

I have yet to meet an American who has experienced any problem in Europe

created

Quoted message said:

by the apparent differences between the stereotypical political views of

the US

Quoted message said:

and Europe. The relationships you have as an individual aren't based in governmental politics or
religious dogma. On the other hand, I haven't met

any

Quoted message said:

conservative Americans living in Europe. I suspect that most Americans who

leave

Quoted message said:

the US to live and work as expatriots are more liberal than the average American.

You are probably close to being right. I have a great expectation along with others that the
Socialistic type governments of the Scandinavian countries (along with the Nederland's etc.)
will prevail. However, in the meanwhile, I will continue to take on well trusted business
partners from longstanding acquaintances who find it impossible to do entrepreneurial business
in these Socialist type countries without being taxed half to death. I've seen this happen for
the last three decades. We need the liberals as much as they need a certain conservative
structure. The U.S. these days, seems to be a played out battlefield of equally opposing
sentiments content on reprimanding one another. Just as well that absolute powers be
questioned in an absolute theater of reasonable resolution. Ask yourselves why Saddam would
have his closest and liquid assets in the form of U.S. dollars? (I will gladly try to clarify
to anyone who ask)

Rick Swanger

Quoted message said:

cultures and continents, if you expect to thrive doing it.

martin

"M.W.Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Donald Graft said:

You libs just don't get it. I am so going to enjoy the trouncing of the Dems in 2004!

Charlatan and liberal, it must suck to be you.

Another compassionate watch-wearing conservative heard from.

Anne Coulter told me liberals were traitors, so I don't owe you any respect, let alone compassion.

:-)

Don