Adding a third chain ring.

Pilgrim said:

Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone.

If your Sugino crank has provisions for a third chainring, it is
almost certainly a 74mm bolt circle diameter. That means you can put a
chain ring as small as 24T on the crank.

Quoted message said:

I have
SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

My questions;

Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

The Suntour AR FDs I recall had a fairly deep inner cage plate, so
yes, a triple should work. As the inner ring gets smaller (i.e., 28 v.
26 v. 24) the shifting will get less wonderful to and from the little
ring.

Quoted message said:

Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
when I'm in the low gear?

Yes, if you only use the third chainring on the larger rear cogs.
That's all you really need to use to get a low gear, anyway, the other
ratios are duplicated on your middle chainring.

BTW, your RD will easily take a 28T rear cog, and probably a 30t, so
calculate your low gear needs from there.

Also, as Andrew Muzi mentioned yesterday, you might want to consider
moving to a 7SP freewheel and new front and rear derailleurs in the
future.

Quoted message said:

Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Pilgrim

Pilgrim said:

Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

My questions;

Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
when I'm in the low gear?

Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Pilgrim

Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
triple crankset and get much lower gears.

$35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand=&sku=17947&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20ATB%20Cranks

email hidden said:

Pilgrim said:

Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

Quoted message said:

My questions;

Quoted message said:

Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Quoted message said:

Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
when I'm in the low gear?

Quoted message said:

Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Quoted message said:

Pilgrim

Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

If present, the mounting holes for a third ring would only be visible
from the *backside* of the spider (e.g., Sugino Aero Tour), not from
the front (out) side.

Quoted message said:

Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
triple crankset and get much lower gears.

$35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Feb 27, 3:17 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, "Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My questions;

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
when I'm in the low gear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pilgrim

Quoted message said:

Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

If present, the mounting holes for a third ring would only be visible
from the *backside* of the spider (e.g., Sugino Aero Tour), not from
the front (out) side.

Looking at the photos again (I didn't really see the one showing the
back of the spider), Russell seems to be correct, there are no obvious
signs of provisions for a third ring (at least not one using a relly
small bcd). That crank looks like it might be a variation of a Sugino
Maxy, which had a 110mm inner bcd. If that is the case, the OP
(Pilgrim), could put a 34t inner ring and try his hand a the much
touted "compact double". :-)

Perhaps Mr. Muzi can help with the question of what crank came on this
Centurion?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
triple crankset and get much lower gears.

Quoted message said:

$35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

Quoted message said:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand...Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Feb 27, 3:33 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:17 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, "Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
> boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
> weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
> dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
> like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
> SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My questions;

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
> when I'm in the low gear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Pilgrim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

Quoted message said:

If present, the mounting holes for a third ring would only be visible
from the *backside* of the spider (e.g., Sugino Aero Tour), not from
the front (out) side.

Looking at the photos again (I didn't really see the one showing the
back of the spider), Russell seems to be correct, there are no obvious
signs of provisions for a third ring (at least not one using a relly
small bcd). That crank looks like it might be a variation of a Sugino
Maxy, which had a 110mm inner bcd. If that is the case, the OP
(Pilgrim), could put a 34t inner ring and try his hand a the much
touted "compact double". :-)

Perhaps Mr. Muzi can help with the question of what crank came on this
Centurion?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
triple crankset and get much lower gears.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

$35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand...quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Hmm, actually, I'm rather fond of triple rings. My last bike had them
and they work great for San Francisco riding (little ring for climbing
Nob Hill, middle ring for cruising the Embarcadero, and big ring for
careening down into the Marina). But it's okay, I don't mind upgrading
the crank. It's nothing too special as is. But then I suppose we
should talk teeth.

What's a good set of rings for touring loaded? A quick look at the
archives tells me 28-49-53 is a popular combo. I suppose it depends on
my dérailleurs and sprockets eh?

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Feb 27, 3:33 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:17 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, "Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
> boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
> weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
> dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
> like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
> SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My questions;

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
> when I'm in the low gear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Pilgrim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

Quoted message said:

If present, the mounting holes for a third ring would only be visible
from the *backside* of the spider (e.g., Sugino Aero Tour), not from
the front (out) side.

Looking at the photos again (I didn't really see the one showing the
back of the spider), Russell seems to be correct, there are no obvious
signs of provisions for a third ring (at least not one using a relly
small bcd). That crank looks like it might be a variation of a Sugino
Maxy, which had a 110mm inner bcd. If that is the case, the OP
(Pilgrim), could put a 34t inner ring and try his hand a the much
touted "compact double". :-)

Perhaps Mr. Muzi can help with the question of what crank came on this
Centurion?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
triple crankset and get much lower gears.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

$35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand...quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

but on second thought, $50 is a lot when the whole bike only cost $90.
Maybe a compact double isn't such a bad idea after all.

Pilgrim said:

On Feb 27, 2:08 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:33 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:17 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, "Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
> > boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
> > weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
> > dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
> > like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
> > SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > My questions;

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
> > when I'm in the low gear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Pilgrim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
> was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
> spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If present, the mounting holes for a third ring would only be visible
from the *backside* of the spider (e.g., Sugino Aero Tour), not from
the front (out) side.

Quoted message said:

Looking at the photos again (I didn't really see the one showing the
back of the spider), Russell seems to be correct, there are no obvious
signs of provisions for a third ring (at least not one using a relly
small bcd). That crank looks like it might be a variation of a Sugino
Maxy, which had a 110mm inner bcd. If that is the case, the OP
(Pilgrim), could put a 34t inner ring and try his hand a the much
touted "compact double". :-)

Quoted message said:

Perhaps Mr. Muzi can help with the question of what crank came on this
Centurion?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
> triple crankset and get much lower gears.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> $35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
> Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
> bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
> somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
> and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
> front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand...text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

Hmm, actually, I'm rather fond of triple rings. My last bike had them
and they work great for San Francisco riding (little ring for climbing
Nob Hill, middle ring for cruising the Embarcadero, and big ring for
careening down into the Marina). But it's okay, I don't mind upgrading
the crank. It's nothing too special as is. But then I suppose we
should talk teeth.

What's a good set of rings for touring loaded? A quick look at the
archives tells me 28-49-53 is a popular combo. I suppose it depends on
my dérailleurs and sprockets eh?

A good choice for a new crank, IMO, is a Sugino XD300. Here is a link:

http://tinyurl.com/2xnqto

A very nice unit for ~$50, and it uses the increasingly common (once
again) 110/74mm bolt circles, meaning you have a very braod choice of
chainrings (as big as 52-53 and as small as 24). It comes with
46-36-26 rings as delivered.

Assuming your bottom bracket cups are not worn, all you will need is a
new BB spindle, not a new bottom bracket. 113mm should do the trick
(the one you have now is probably too long - in the 118-120mm range-
but check to be sure).

Pilgrim said:

Hmm, actually, I'm rather fond of triple rings. My last bike had them
and they work great for San Francisco riding (little ring for climbing
Nob Hill, middle ring for cruising the Embarcadero, and big ring for
careening down into the Marina). But it's okay, I don't mind upgrading
the crank. It's nothing too special as is. But then I suppose we
should talk teeth.

What's a good set of rings for touring loaded? A quick look at the
archives tells me 28-49-53 is a popular combo. I suppose it depends on
my dérailleurs and sprockets eh?

I can't imagine why you would bother with the 53 on a loaded tour. Any
speed over 30mph when heavily loaded is a little scary, and anything
over 25 will only happen on downhills. Relax. Coast. What you will
want are low gears, the lower the better, essentially. Why not look at
something like a 48-34-24, or whatever you can find near there for cheap?

--

David L. Johnson

And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you killed
all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds, thousands would
rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't kill that fast.
-- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

Pilgrim said:

On Feb 27, 2:08 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:33 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:17 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, "Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
> > boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
> > weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
> > dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
> > like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
> > SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > My questions;

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
> > when I'm in the low gear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Pilgrim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
> was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
> spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If present, the mounting holes for a third ring would only be visible
from the *backside* of the spider (e.g., Sugino Aero Tour), not from
the front (out) side.

Quoted message said:

Looking at the photos again (I didn't really see the one showing the
back of the spider), Russell seems to be correct, there are no obvious
signs of provisions for a third ring (at least not one using a relly
small bcd). That crank looks like it might be a variation of a Sugino
Maxy, which had a 110mm inner bcd. If that is the case, the OP
(Pilgrim), could put a 34t inner ring and try his hand a the much
touted "compact double". :-)

Quoted message said:

Perhaps Mr. Muzi can help with the question of what crank came on this
Centurion?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
> triple crankset and get much lower gears.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> $35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
> Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
> bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
> somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
> and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
> front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand...text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Show quoted text -

but on second thought, $50 is a lot when the whole bike only cost $90.
Maybe a compact double isn't such a bad idea after all

That is the cheapest alternative. A 34 or 36T 110mm chainring should
be ~$16. That's all you'll need to start.

The bike in question is a Centurion Accordo, a model I sold quite a few of
back in the day. That said, the only reason I'd be looking to upgrade one
would be for sentimental reasons. It's really not terribly suitable for
touring, because-

#1: The stock brakes weren't very good. Pretty flexy.
#2: The crankset, as you discovered, would require replacement for triple
conversion. As would the front & rear derailleurs (if the range wasn't too
great, you might get away with the stock rear).
#3: The rear wheel was prone to axle failure. It predates the cassette hub,
and carrying a load of touring gear is going to make a bad situation even
worse.

I'd consider it something you might use for commuting or rain use, but a
touring bike should be a bit more durable, since you could be out in the
middle of nowhere when something goes wrong. Check into garage sales etc for
a used touring bike. Bikes without STI shifters can often be had for a very
good price. The things to pay attention to would be a cassette-style rear
hub, a frame size that fits, no signs of having been crashed (look for even
minor buckling or areas where the paint is flaking off), and, of course,
having been previously owned by a little old lady who only rode it to the
local bakery and back.

By the way... why are there both bar-end and stem-mounted shifters on the
bike?

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

You should also consider getting a long cage rear derailer and a 12-34
rear cassette. Keep the old cassette for spare parts.

Pilgrim said:

Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

My questions;

Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
when I'm in the low gear?

Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Pilgrim

Pilgrim said:

On Feb 27, 2:08 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:33 pm, "Ozark Bicycle"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 27, 3:17 pm, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 12:08 pm, "Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Hello, as you've all probably figured out by now, I'm gearing my bike-
> > boom road bike up for touring. After a trip up Devil's Slide this
> > weekend I discovered I need a lower gear range. Currently I have a
> > dual ring set-up (I don't know the tooth count off hand) and it looks
> > like there used to be a third ring bolted on, but it's gone. I have
> > SunTour AR front and rear dérailleurs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > My questions;

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Can the front dérailleur be adjusted to use three rings?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Will the short cage of my rear deraileur suffice to take up the slack
> > when I'm in the low gear?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Pictures here:http://flickr.com/photos/simpolman

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > Pilgrim

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Looking at the pictures of your crankset it does not look like there
> was ever a third chainring bolted onto it. Those oval holes in the
> spider are just for looks. Not bolts for a third ring.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If present, the mounting holes for a third ring would only be visible
from the *backside* of the spider (e.g., Sugino Aero Tour), not from
the front (out) side.

Quoted message said:

Looking at the photos again (I didn't really see the one showing the
back of the spider), Russell seems to be correct, there are no obvious
signs of provisions for a third ring (at least not one using a relly
small bcd). That crank looks like it might be a variation of a Sugino
Maxy, which had a 110mm inner bcd. If that is the case, the OP
(Pilgrim), could put a 34t inner ring and try his hand a the much
touted "compact double". :-)

Quoted message said:

Perhaps Mr. Muzi can help with the question of what crank came on this
Centurion?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Since your bike is fairly basic, you can pretty cheaply install a new
> triple crankset and get much lower gears.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> $35 crankset with 42-32-22 rings. New bottom bracket is $10-20.
> Nashbar does not seem to carry its own brand cheap square taper bottom
> bracket anymore. But you should be able to find something cheap
> somewhere. Assuming you have the tools to do your own bottom bracket
> and crank work, the parts should be $50 total. Then just slide the
> front derailleur down and it should shift OK. And shorten the chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=81&subcategory=1031&brand...text -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

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- Show quoted text -

but on second thought, $50 is a lot when the whole bike only cost $90.
Maybe a compact double isn't such a bad idea after all.- Hide quoted text-

- Show quoted text -

I'll recommend again the cheap square taper mountain bike crank, $35
at Nashbar. 42-32-22 rings should get you up SF hills with your
current freewheel. And then do as Ozark says and get a replacement
square taper spindle at a local shop for a few bucks hopefully. Or a
replacement cartridge bottom bracket for a few bucks. Yes it will be
$50, but you will end up with useful gears.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

The bike in question is a Centurion Accordo, a model I sold quite a few of
back in the day. That said, the only reason I'd be looking to upgrade one
would be for sentimental reasons. It's really not terribly suitable for
touring, because-

#1: The stock brakes weren't very good. Pretty flexy.
#2: The crankset, as you discovered, would require replacement for triple
conversion. As would the front & rear derailleurs (if the range wasn't too
great, you might get away with the stock rear).
#3: The rear wheel was prone to axle failure. It predates the cassette hub,
and carrying a load of touring gear is going to make a bad situation even
worse.

I'd consider it something you might use for commuting or rain use, but a
touring bike should be a bit more durable, since you could be out in the
middle of nowhere when something goes wrong. Check into garage sales etc for
a used touring bike. Bikes without STI shifters can often be had for a very
good price. The things to pay attention to would be a cassette-style rear
hub, a frame size that fits, no signs of having been crashed (look for even
minor buckling or areas where the paint is flaking off), and, of course,
having been previously owned by a little old lady who only rode it to the
local bakery and back.

By the way... why are there both bar-end and stem-mounted shifters on the
bike?

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

You're right on there Mike. The axle broke on me this weekend, and the
brakes are pretty weak, but I have attributed that to the old shoddy
housings in the past. I have a little bike co-op where I can rummage
through buckets of brake calipers if I need to though. What I'm going
for here is to use recycled (not pun) parts as much as possible, and
to keep the bike as cheap as possible. I know I'll be broke down a few
times, but as my mom always said I have to learn my lessons the hard
way. Fixing a broken axle on the road might be one of those
experiences, though I've now replaced the entire wheels with brand new
components from my old bike that was stripped by thieves. Brakes may
not be a good thing to learn the hard way, so I may take your advice
and upgrade those before I leave.

I'm really not planning on leaving too many stock components. Do you
know if the frames, or forks ever had problems? Are they prone to
cracks or bending anywhere?

Pilgrim said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

The bike in question is a Centurion Accordo, a model I sold quite a few of
back in the day. That said, the only reason I'd be looking to upgrade one
would be for sentimental reasons. It's really not terribly suitable for
touring, because-

Quoted message said:

#1: The stock brakes weren't very good. Pretty flexy.
#2: The crankset, as you discovered, would require replacement for triple
conversion. As would the front & rear derailleurs (if the range wasn't too
great, you might get away with the stock rear).
#3: The rear wheel was prone to axle failure. It predates the cassette hub,
and carrying a load of touring gear is going to make a bad situation even
worse.

Quoted message said:

I'd consider it something you might use for commuting or rain use, but a
touring bike should be a bit more durable, since you could be out in the
middle of nowhere when something goes wrong. Check into garage sales etc for
a used touring bike. Bikes without STI shifters can often be had for a very
good price. The things to pay attention to would be a cassette-style rear
hub, a frame size that fits, no signs of having been crashed (look for even
minor buckling or areas where the paint is flaking off), and, of course,
having been previously owned by a little old lady who only rode it to the
local bakery and back.

Quoted message said:

By the way... why are there both bar-end and stem-mounted shifters on the
bike?

Quoted message said:

--Mike--
Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReaction.com

You're right on there Mike. The axle broke on me this weekend

Are you now using the rear wheel off the Marin, or the old wheel from
the Centurion?

In either case, while at the coop, see if someone can help you to
check the alignment of the rear droputs. Misaligned dropouts can laed
to both broken axles and accelerated wheel bearing wear.

And, if you are going to use the rear wheel from the Marin, you might
want to respace the rear triangle of the frame.

Quoted message said:

, and the
brakes are pretty weak, but I have attributed that to the old shoddy
housings in the past.

IMO, there is nothing inherently "wrong" with those DiaCompe brake
calipers. New pads and new cables and housings, along with proper
adjustment will leave you with very decent brakes.

Quoted message said:

I have a little bike co-op where I can rummage
through buckets of brake calipers if I need to though. What I'm going
for here is to use recycled (not pun) parts as much as possible, and
to keep the bike as cheap as possible. I know I'll be broke down a few
times, but as my mom always said I have to learn my lessons the hard
way. Fixing a broken axle on the road might be one of those
experiences, though I've now replaced the entire wheels with brand new
components from my old bike that was stripped by thieves. Brakes may
not be a good thing to learn the hard way, so I may take your advice
and upgrade those before I leave.

I'm really not planning on leaving too many stock components. Do you
know if the frames, or forks ever had problems? Are they prone to
cracks or bending anywhere?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Quoted message said:

In either case, while at the coop, see if someone can help you to
check the alignment of the rear droputs. Misaligned dropouts can laed
to both broken axles and accelerated wheel bearing wear.

Won't matter much; the "dropouts" on the Accordo are very thin stamped
steel. They'll conform to whatever's put into them. :>😉

Quoted message said:

And, if you are going to use the rear wheel from the Marin, you might
want to respace the rear triangle of the frame.

Easily done, as the frame is mild steel. We respaced many.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

, and the
brakes are pretty weak, but I have attributed that to the old shoddy
housings in the past.

IMO, there is nothing inherently "wrong" with those DiaCompe brake
calipers. New pads and new cables and housings, along with proper
adjustment will leave you with very decent brakes.

They'll work better, but still not very well. We were replacing the housing
on new bikes with the best lined stuff we could get, and experimented with
different brake pads. Those calipers were just plain flexy, in a way that
didn't inspire confidence. Even modern KoolStop pads don't bring them up to
acceptable power, in my humble opinion (we got to work on one fairly
recently).

I must have sold a couple hundred of those bikes back in the day. Great bike
for the price. But it wasn't until you got up to the LeMans level that you
got something of lasting quality, with components nice enough that you
didn't want to change them out if you were going to get into riding in a
serious way.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

In either case, while at the coop, see if someone can help you to
check the alignment of the rear droputs. Misaligned dropouts can laed
to both broken axles and accelerated wheel bearing wear.

Won't matter much; the "dropouts" on the Accordo are very thin stamped
steel. They'll conform to whatever's put into them. :>😉

Quoted message said:

And, if you are going to use the rear wheel from the Marin, you might
want to respace the rear triangle of the frame.

Easily done, as the frame is mild steel. We respaced many.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

, and the
brakes are pretty weak, but I have attributed that to the old shoddy
housings in the past.

Quoted message said:

IMO, there is nothing inherently "wrong" with those DiaCompe brake
calipers. New pads and new cables and housings, along with proper
adjustment will leave you with very decent brakes.

They'll work better, but still not very well. We were replacing the housing
on new bikes with the best lined stuff we could get, and experimented with
different brake pads. Those calipers were just plain flexy, in a way that
didn't inspire confidence. Even modern KoolStop pads don't bring them up to
acceptable power, in my humble opinion (we got to work on one fairly
recently).

Perhaps we're thinking of different DiaCompe calipers (?), but the
ones in the pictures the OP posted sure looked pretty much the same.
They usually came with the hoodless DiaCompe levers with the 'flick to
the side' QR and suicide levers, right? I worked on a bike with those,
recently, too. We swapped out the levers (the owner wanted to lose the
suicide levers), new cables, housing and pads. They won't win any
design awards, but not awful by any means. YBMV.