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6th, the reason.

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Road Cycling
Published
28 July 2003
Last activity
3 August 2003
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Callistus Valer
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  1. "Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Callistus Valerius said:

    Why a 6th? Because LA wants to erase from the memory of every American cyclist the name, "Greg
    LeMond."

    He's already got Lemond under pressure to come up with a virtual 5th victory. This time I think
    Lemond will crack.

    Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

    I like that one:>😉 BTW, I think this is the first year that I did not see a single reference to
    Lemond. I am sure he would come up with that 5th victory if he could only get someone to listen.

  2. "snjr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Unfortunately for LA, I do not believe he will ever rise to the fame of Indurain, Lemond, Roche,
    Hinault, Merckx. It has nothing to do with his athletic ability... he just appears to be more
    removed from the fans/audience. I guess LA is the champion we love to hate?

    Nope.

    Pete

  3. "snjr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Actually, I think more cycling fans dislike LA than like him. I can't


    tell

    Quoted message said:

    you why that is.

    Nope.

    Pete

  4. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "snjr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Actually, I think more cycling fans dislike LA than like him. I can't


    tell

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    you why that is.

    Quoted message said:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Hey Dumbass -

    The French press gave him the orange award this year.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but don't project it onto everyone else.

    Goddamn it. I'm beginning to grow fond of Henry.

    Pete...uh, I mean...Fred

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    Maybe in the world of hardcore cycling fans, you might have a point. I dont know. But generally,
    IMHO, LA is much more popular than Lemond ever was. And I also have a memory of Lemond being called
    a whiner. Cant really tell you the specifics though, so.....

    snjr said:
    Callistus Valerius said:

    Why a 6th? Because LA wants to erase from the memory of every American


    cyclist the name, "Greg >LeMond."

    I don't think that is Lance's motivation, however, it is pretty obvious that LA did not and does
    not like being referenced along with GL. My own impression is that people liked GL much more than
    they do LA. You must respect LA's athletic ability but for some reason people generally do not
    accept him as a "true champion" whatever that means. I suggest part of the reason is LA has made
    winning look so easy in the past, and I believe people generally like him more when he was
    struggling a bit in this TDF.

    Unfortunately for LA, I do not believe he will ever rise to the fame of Indurain, Lemond, Roche,
    Hinault, Merckx. It has nothing to do with his athletic ability... he just appears to be more
    removed from the fans/audience. I guess LA is the champion we love to hate?

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    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
    http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body>
    Maybe in the world of hardcore cycling fans, you might have a point. I dont know. But generally,
    IMHO, LA is much more popular than Lemond ever was. And I also have a memory of Lemond being called
    a whiner. Cant really tell you the specifics though, so.....<br> <br> snjr wrote:<br> <blockquote
    type="cite" cite="[email hidden]"> <pre wrap="">"Callistus Valerius" wrote:

    </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Why a 6th? Because LA wants to erase from the memory
    of every American </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->cyclist the name, "Greg >LeMond."

    I don't think that is Lance's motivation, however, it is pretty obvious that LA did not and does
    not like being referenced along with GL. My own impression is that people liked GL much more than
    they do LA. You must respect LA's athletic ability but for some reason people generally do not
    accept him as a "true champion" whatever that means. I suggest part of the reason is LA has made
    winning look so easy in the past, and I believe people generally like him more when he was
    struggling a bit in this TDF.

    Unfortunately for LA, I do not believe he will ever rise to the fame of Indurain, Lemond, Roche,
    Hinault, Merckx. It has nothing to do with his athletic ability... he just appears to be more
    removed from the fans/audience. I guess LA is the champion we love to hate?

    </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>

    --------------060103080609090403070800--

  6. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in

    Quoted message said:

    The French press gave him the orange award this year.

    DID HE SHARE THE ORANGES WITH HIS TEAM ???

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    snjr said:

    "Steven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I believe that this article is substantial proof that atleast in the US your opinion is in the
    miority, It is also safe to say that LeMond never got anywhere close to this level of fame...

    washingtontimes.com20030628 104419 4024r.htm

    A Washington Post article that talked mostly about sponsorship and branding is proof that LA is
    famous and well liked by fans? Boy if that's all it takes there are a lot of well liked and famous
    people in the US!


    Sorry, dude, but if a person (e.g. an athlete in this case) is not hugely popular, AND well liked,
    s/he would not be "one of the top product endorsers in the country." It is de facto proof that he is
    well liked by "fans". Of course, these fans may not be your hardcore cycling fans, who, like any
    category of hardcore fans, probably generally prefer to like the less popular, "better", "classier",
    "cooler", "nicer" pro riders. Every one I know (none of which are "hardcore" racing cyclists),
    wanted Lance to win. I guarantee you OLN would not have been pulling in 1milion viewers for some of
    the race days if it wasn't for LA. And I promise you they were not tuning in (for the most part)
    hoping to see him lose.

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    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
    http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body>
    <br> <br> snjr wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="[email hidden]"> <pre
    wrap="">"Steven" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
    href=""][email hidden]"><[email hidden]></a> wrote in message <a
    class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href=""]news:[email hidden]">news:a3ee-
    [email hidden]</a>... </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">I
    believe that this article is substantial proof that atleast in the US your opinion is in the
    miority, It is also safe to say that LeMond never got anywhere close to this level of fame...

    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="washingtontimes.com20030628 104419 4024r.ht
    m">washingtontimes.com20030628 104419 4024r.htm</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre
    wrap=""><!----> A Washington Post article that talked mostly about sponsorship and branding is proof
    that LA is famous and well liked by fans? Boy if that's all it takes there are a lot of well liked
    and famous people in the US! </pre> </blockquote> Sorry, dude, but if a person (e.g. an athlete in
    this case) is not hugely popular, AND well liked, s/he would not be "one of the top product
    endorsers in the country." It is de facto proof that he is well liked by "fans". Of course, these
    fans may not be your hardcore cycling fans, who, like any category of hardcore fans, probably
    generally prefer to like the less popular, "better", "classier", "cooler", "nicer" pro riders. Every
    one I know (none of which are "hardcore" racing cyclists), wanted Lance to win. I guarantee you OLN
    would not have been pulling in 1milion viewers for some of the race days if it wasn't for LA. And I
    promise you they were not tuning in (for the most part) hoping to see him lose. <br> </body> </html>

    --------------030406030101090303070309--

  8. "Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in

    Quoted message said:

    The French press gave him the orange award this year.

    DID HE SHARE THE ORANGES WITH HIS TEAM ???

    I THINK HE NOT ONLY SHARED THEM, BUT GAVE UP HIS ORANGE ALONG WITH GOING OUT TO THE MARKET AND
    BUYING ENOUGH TO DOUBLE THE AMOUNT.

    THIS IS A DISTINCT CONTRAST TO HAMPSTEN, THE GREEDY [censored], WHO ATE ALL HIS ORANGES.

  9. "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Callistus Valerius said:

    Why a 6th? Because LA wants to erase from the memory of every American cyclist the name, "Greg
    LeMond."

    He's already got Lemond under pressure to come up with a virtual 5th victory. This time I think
    Lemond will crack.

    Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

    I like that one:>😉 BTW, I think this is the first year that I did not see a single reference to
    Lemond. I am sure he would come up with that 5th victory if he could only get someone to listen.

    If Lemond had not won three Tours (or even one) I doubt Lance would have left triathlons
    for cycling.

  10. Why do you call people dumbasses if you don't take your opinions and project them onto everyone
    else. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "snjr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    The deep thinker said:

    The French press gave him the orange award this year.

    Kurgan; you really are a moron aren't you? You are also a very shallow thinker. Here is your
    reasoning broken down so even you can understand
    it...

    "gee dude.... duhhhhh, the French gave Lance a basket of oranges.... duhhhh.... DUDE!... That
    must mean everyone loves Lance!"

    No. Unlike you I don't take my own opinions and project them onto


    everyone

    Quoted message said:

    else.

    In the previous post, you wrote:

    "Actually, I think more cycling fans dislike LA than like him"

    which is refuted by:


    nytimes.com29tour.html

    Quoted message said:

    6000&en=9884daf29a267f33&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

    French Call Armstrong Class Act By SAMUEL ABT

    PARIS, July 28 - In a little-noticed ceremony, the photographers who cover the Tour de France
    awarded their Prix Orange to Lance Armstrong last week, honoring him as the most cooperative
    rider. Two years ago, they gave him


    the

    Quoted message said:

    Prix Citron, or Lemon Prize, an award for the opposite behavior.

    The photographers' shift may have little meaning beyond Armstrong's willingness to smile more
    often for the camera. In a way, though, it


    mirrors

    Quoted message said:

    a change in the attitude of French spectators toward Armstrong, who has


    won

    Quoted message said:

    the last five Tours.

    He earned widespread respect when he made a comeback from cancer and won


    the

    Quoted message said:

    Tour in 1999. There was coolness toward Armstrong when he dominated the


    next

    Quoted message said:

    two races - the French tend to admire the man in second place in most situations - and now there
    appears to be renewed admiration.

    He now speaks a comprehensible French during television interviews,


    mending

    Quoted message said:

    many a Gallic heart. And his autobiography, detailing his fight against a cancer that spread to
    his brain and lungs, was a best-seller in France, enabling readers to know him as a person, not
    merely as a great champion.

    At a meeting this morning at the Crillon Hotel, Armstrong, looking weary


    but

    Quoted message said:

    sounding gracious, said, "It was a real honor to win the Tour de France as


    a

    Quoted message said:

    cancer survivor.''

    He left the lectern to loud applause from the mainly French crowd. So it went throughout the Tour:
    cheers for Armstrong at the sign-in for each


    daily

    Quoted message said:

    stage, an abundance of posters supporting him in French and an absence of the jeers he had drawn
    occasionally in previous years.

    When he was asked a few days ago for his reaction to the horde of fans


    with

    Quoted message said:

    United States flags along the route, Armstrong said: "Many times you get next to them and it's a
    French person. It's strange, but many times it happens. I can't complain about the kind of support
    it is. It's much appreciated.''

    Then he spoke, as he often did before the Tour, about the need to repair French-American
    relations, which have been strained by the war in Iraq.

    During the three-week race, fans voiced appreciation for Armstrong's skill and nearly unanimous
    respect for him. Again and again, people along the


    side

    Quoted message said:

    of the Tour's many roads described him as "un grand monsieur,'' which roughly translates to "a
    class act.''

    That phrase first popped up from a spectator at the first stage, on July


    6.

    Quoted message said:

    After a crash left Armstrong and dozens of other riders sprawled on the road, a fan said he hoped
    Armstrong had not been hurt so badly that he


    would

    Quoted message said:

    have to quit the race. "Without him, the Tour loses much of its


    interest,''

    Quoted message said:

    he said. Then he described Armstrong as "un grand monsieur.''

    The phrase was repeated the next week by a police officer on duty in the Alps. Then there was a
    spectator, French despite the Washington Redskins


    cap

    Quoted message said:

    on his head, during the first individual time trial on July 18. The spectator and a friend
    described themselves as "not fans of cycling, but fans of the Tour de France and even fans of
    Armstrong.'' Farther down the road, a counterman in a sandwich shop said: "I stopped following the
    sport because of all the drugs. When Armstrong began winning, I came back, since


    I

    Quoted message said:

    can't believe anybody who had cancer would take no matter what drugs. He's revived the sport.''

    And, of course, the counterman called Armstrong "un grand monsieur.''

    In 1993, when Armstrong was 21 and racing in his first Tour de France, he was relaxing out of
    uniform. Because of his youth and inexperience, his team, Motorola, had him withdraw about
    halfway through the race. Armstrong mused about Miguel Indurain of Spain, who was in the process
    of winning


    the

    Quoted message said:

    third of five successive Tours.

    "Indurain, I admire him as much as a person as a bike rider,'' Armstrong said. "He's a lord:
    gracious, generous, cool, always in control. He's the kind of guy I'd like to grow up to be.''

    No doubt about it - in the judgment of the French and nearly everyone


    else,

    Quoted message said:

    he has.

  11. Agreed, Lance is the most famous bicyclist ever. It's due to marketing ("Just sell it"😉.

    "rick h" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "snjr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I don't think that is Lance's motivation, however, it is pretty obvious


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    LA did not and does not like being referenced along with GL. My own impression is that people
    liked GL much more than they do LA. You must respect LA's athletic ability but for some reason
    people generally do


    not

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    accept him as a "true champion" whatever that means. I suggest part of


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    reason is LA has made winning look so easy in the past, and I believe


    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    generally like him more when he was struggling a bit in this TDF.

    Unfortunately for LA, I do not believe he will ever rise to the fame of Indurain, Lemond, Roche,
    Hinault, Merckx. It has nothing to do with his athletic ability... he just appears to be more
    removed from the fans/audience. I guess LA is the champion we love to hate?

    IMHO, Lance has far exceeded the fame of Indurain and Roche around the world, primarily because
    his triumph over cancer really distinguishes his story from mere bicycling champions(!). My sense
    is that there are many more people who know of Lance because of his fight to survive cancer than
    know a whit about how he achieved his 5 Tour wins, though arguably his fame derives from the
    combination of the two.

    I never thought I'd see an American bike racer exceed the fame of Lemond, but Lance has done it.
    Lemond was such a pioneer for American bicycling in Europe (OK, there were earlier pioneers), and
    so spectacular in his narrow 89 win on the Champs, including the aerobars and helmet, and in his
    recovery from a gunshot wound, etc. But Lance has trumped all that by facing down death at its
    most grim - cancer with an outlook greater than 50% of a slow painful death. Lance's fight to
    triumph over cancer inspires a much wider audience than could be reached by winning N tours. Isn't
    this the mark of a "true champion"?

    Rick H

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 25/07/2003

  12. "Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Why a 6th? Because LA wants to erase from the memory of every American cyclist the name, "Greg
    LeMond."

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