650Beware?

Werehatrack said:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:32:37 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Many people distinguish between Free China, Taiwan ROC and The Peoples'
> Republic for a variety of reasons. Including me.

Quoted message said:

still just me said:

Holding on to that, eh?

Quoted message said:

yep.
Freedom is always the right answer.

And in my experience, the stuff from Taiwan usually has fewer QC
problems. They've been catering to the more demanding Western market
for longer than the mainland, and it shows. In the PRC, the customer
only gets good stuff if the customer knows how to make sure that is
what is supplied. Otherwise, they'll ship whatever they've got. This
applies to more than just toothpaste.

Plus, the average Taiwanese worker gets paid something closer to a
living wage for the area.

Do you have any clue what a living wage is for China?

Since I usually use my own (grossly inflated) salary as an example I
will instead use my friend Frank as an example.

In July he started working for the local bike shop. Because he had
only completed three years of university and had not yet proven
himself to be a competent employee he started as a trainee on 600rmb a
month. Although he technically got two days a week off the housing
provided to him was on the fourth floor of the shop and he found it
hard not to be helpful when an extra hand was needed.

600 rmb = US $78

Near the end of his second month at the bike shop the bike shop owner
and the Shimano rep recommended him to Shimano Shanghai as a mechanic
to work at a Shimano Shop-in-Shop partner store. So far as I
understand it in China bike shops that are allowed to sell Shimano are
supposed to have Shimano certified mechanics who work *at* the bike
shop but who work *for* Shimano. The shop pays Shimano for a bunch of
different things (including him) and he gets a salary and commission
from Shimano. He could conceivably be asked to go to a different bike
shop and he is not supposed to sell complete bikes or anything non-
Shimano anymore.

Now his salary was raised to (I think) 1200 rmb a month. That's
barely US $160.

A college educated (though he hasn't yet graduated), bilingual,
trained bicycle mechanic who works for Shimano at the best pro bike
shop in the province (which is also one of the best in the country)
makes barely US $160 a month plus commission. And he's happy with
that. Thinks it is a good salary with good potential for advancement.

Now that I've told you what a reasonable salary is would you please
tell me again about how the abused Chinese factory worker is failing
to get a living wage? Cause you and I seem to have vastly different
opinions of what a Chinese living wage is.

-M

Quoted message said:

Wayne Pein said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Nov 18, 6:03 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Ozark Bicycle wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>On Nov 18, 12:42 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Further, if all three sizes are equal in terms of performance, why do
>people have 559 for one bike and 770C for another?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why don't you tell me?

Quoted message said:

Don't play dumb. It's for mt. bikes and road bikes.

I don't think Ozark's playing, Wayne. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>It seems to me the real benefit is that someone with 650B could replace
>two sizes and two bikes with one. That may be reason enough for that
>person.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Replace two bikes with one"?

Quoted message said:

650B is between 559 and 700C in diameter. You claim that 650B offers no
advantages over either. Obviously some people do.

The one advantage of 650B that makes sense to me is this: In the last
10 years, it's been very difficult to find 700c bikes with sufficient
clearance for fenders and tires wider than 28mm.

That's hardly new information.....

<snip>

Quoted message said:

BTW, the first I heard of 650B was back in, oh, 1974 or so. Fred
DeLong recommended that as the optimum wheel size for touring
tandems.

Gee, it's not 1974 anymore, Frank (Did ya get the news? Nixon is
dead.). The selection of available rims has changed dramatically in
those 33 years. Do you really think Mr.DeLong would recommend 650B for
tandem use in the USA *today* over the wide selection of easily
available 559/26" (559 did not exist in 1974, Frank) and much improved
522/700C rims.

Oh, and here is some input on the availability of 650B in *France*, a
putative hotbed of 650B -ness:

http://tinyurl.com/22zprr

or, for the cautious set:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/22zprr

Do get back to us in the reality of 2007, Frankie!

Werehatrack said:

And in my experience, the stuff from Taiwan usually has fewer QC
problems. They've been catering to the more demanding Western market
for longer than the mainland, and it shows. In the PRC, the customer
only gets good stuff if the customer knows how to make sure that is
what is supplied. Otherwise, they'll ship whatever they've got. This
applies to more than just toothpaste.

I think that's because the Taiwanese have been at it longer.

Quoted message said:

The one advantage of 650B that makes sense to me is this: In the last
10 years, it's been very difficult to find 700c bikes with sufficient
clearance for fenders and tires wider than 28mm. I've battled that
problem when helping others try to make their "good bikes" more
useful.

But Rivendell makes their own frames... supposedly with a vintage
flair. This wasn't a problem those vintage days they model, why is it
a problem now? They could just as easily choose to build frames to
accommodate what customers want.

Quoted message said:

Oh, Grant Peterson is evil, all right! I put him in the same evil
class as Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Andrew Carnegie and Bill Gates.

Need to clean your glasses, Frank.

Quoted message said:

Imagine, taking money from willing customers!

No, worse than that, I put Rivendell in the same evil class as the big
oil companies, the major pharmaceutical firms, the huge agribiz firms,
and the *-marts exploiting Chinese and American workers. Why, I bet
he uses slave labor!

The criticism of the 650B is obvious. And no one exaggerated it to the
wadded-panties level you're operating at here.

(another Obvious): Time will tell.

I haven't devoted the time, but is "Rivendel" supposed to be some kind
of antipodal to "racerboy"?

Couldn't one contact any number of custom makers and get something
made of any material, including maybe even bamboo, to suit an intended
use? Without the fairytale window dressing, that is?

Quoted message said:

No, worse than that, I put anyone who makes more money than a discount
bike mechanic in the same class as [censored]! [censored]! [censored]!

That wasn't the drive of anything I read here. IOW, you're reaching
for a putdown (imagine! Frank Krygowski reaching for a putdown, and
misreading obvious intent!).

Not only that, you're stealing my lines. But missing the (intended)
humor (of course).

Quoted message said:

There. That ought to end the thread. ;-)

In your dreams.

Don't you have some students to abuse? --D-y

In article <[email hidden]>,

James Thomson said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

ISO 584 is not an intrinsically bad size. It predominates in
France. It is the norm there.

It really isn't.

Correct, as other French participants have pointed out.

Quoted message said:

There is a large fleet of older utility bikes still running 650B, but
*very* few bikes built in the last twenty years are 650B. 26" (559mm)
and 700c are by far the most common sizes. 650C and 20" (406mm) are
easy to find. Many shops don't stock any 650B tyres, and I haven't
seen a single new 650B rim in the 6 years I've lived here, though I
know they're available from Berthoud and the like.

Berthoud abandoned 650B a few years ago in favor of 700C and 559/26" for
exactly the reasons you cite. There is one 650B tire (the Megamium) and
one 650B rim made in France, which exist only because of the efforts of
the Confrerie 650B.

http://www.cyclos-cyclotes.org/650/index_ang.html

There is always an amazing amount of [censored] in the 650B threads and
any thread about Rivendell in general. It's just a tire size, nothing
more and nothing less. If it suits your interests, buy it; if it
doesn't, then don't. Nobody's going to force anyone to buy a 650B bike.
There's no coercion here. It's just another option.

In article <[email hidden]>,

still just me said:

Quoted message said:

The one advantage of 650B that makes sense to me is this: In the
last 10 years, it's been very difficult to find 700c bikes with
sufficient clearance for fenders and tires wider than 28mm. I've
battled that problem when helping others try to make their "good
bikes" more useful.

But Rivendell makes their own frames... supposedly with a vintage
flair.

They build bikes with the techniques and designs that Grant Petersen
likes. They are not deliberately "vintage" or "retro." They use steel
tubes and fancy lugs because that's what Grant likes and thinks makes
the best frames. He likes fast cushy tires, so his frame designs all
have clearance for that. He sweats details of frame design most of us
don't know exist.

Quoted message said:

This wasn't a problem those vintage days they model, why is it
a problem now? They could just as easily choose to build frames to
accommodate what customers want.

They do, since they wouldn't sell any if their frames did not
accommodate what their customers want. For many people, Rivendell's
frames are not their cups of tea- they want 16 lb bikes with brifters
and 10 speed cassettes and CF forks and the like. There are lots of
options which accommodate what those folks want. There are few
non-custom options for people who like lugs and steel frames and don't
find it a handicap if their bike weighs 22 lbs. Rivendell has followed
their own muse in this and has been in business for 13 years, has grown
steadily, if fairly slowly, and has been profitable for a good few years
now.

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

James Thomson said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> a écrit:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ISO 584 is not an intrinsically bad size. It predominates in
France. It is the norm there.

Quoted message said:

It really isn't.

Correct, as other French participants have pointed out.

Quoted message said:

There is a large fleet of older utility bikes still running 650B, but
*very* few bikes built in the last twenty years are 650B. 26" (559mm)
and 700c are by far the most common sizes. 650C and 20" (406mm) are
easy to find. Many shops don't stock any 650B tyres, and I haven't
seen a single new 650B rim in the 6 years I've lived here, though I
know they're available from Berthoud and the like.

Berthoud abandoned 650B a few years ago in favor of 700C and 559/26" for
exactly the reasons you cite. There is one 650B tire (the Megamium) and
one 650B rim made in France, which exist only because of the efforts of
the Confrerie 650B.

http://www.cyclos-cyclotes.org/650/index_ang.html

There is always an amazing amount of [censored] in the 650B threads and
any thread about Rivendell in general. It's just a tire size, nothing
more and nothing less. If it suits your interests, buy it; if it
doesn't, then don't. Nobody's going to force anyone to buy a 650B bike.
There's no coercion here.

You willfully miss the fact that Petersen/Rivendell sell to a largely
uninformed/underinformed and credulous customer base. Many are
returning to cycling after a long hiatus or for the first time since
childhood. They wouldn't know what wheel size they were getting if it
bit them in the [censored]. Petersen loves to paint the picture that 650B is
somehow better than 26" or 700C *and* that availability is not now and
will not become an issue. None of that is true and a little
counterpoint to that BS on Usenet is surely a Good Thing.

Quoted message said:

It's just another option.

*If* the buyer is fully informed.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

I haven't devoted the time, but is "Rivendel" supposed to be some
kind of antipodal to "racerboy"?

Rivendell caters to a different approach to riding a bike than the
"racerboy" mindset, if that's what you mean. But I know people who have
successfully raced on Rivendell frames, even winning races on them, too.
But a perusal through the Rivendell catalog will find things that make
the racerboys laugh as hard as most Americans laugh at the racerboys.
Things like baggy shorts and pants, seersucker riding shirts, wool
jerseys and armwarmers and legwarmers and tights and socks and hats and
cycling gloves with crocheted backs and leather palms.

Quoted message said:

Couldn't one contact any number of custom makers and get something
made of any material, including maybe even bamboo, to suit an
intended use? Without the fairytale window dressing, that is?

Sure. Or you can buy a full-custom frame from Rivendell, built to order
in a one-man shop in Minneapolis by Curt Goodrich. Currently the wait
list is 2-3 years, though. But in terms of production frames, Rivendell
is pretty much it for steel lugged frames if that's what you want.

There is no fairytale window dressing, though. What Grant presents in
his catalog is how he and his friends ride bike. He puts his personal
preferences into his product line and sells the stuff he likes to use.
Enough people have similar preferences that he's remained in business
ever since 1994.

Tim McNamara said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

I haven't devoted the time, but is "Rivendel" supposed to be some
kind of antipodal to "racerboy"?

Rivendell caters to a different approach to riding a bike than the
"racerboy" mindset, if that's what you mean. But I know people who have
successfully raced on Rivendell frames, even winning races on them, too.
But a perusal through the Rivendell catalog will find things that make
the racerboys laugh as hard as most Americans laugh at the racerboys.
Things like baggy shorts and pants, seersucker riding shirts, wool
jerseys and armwarmers and legwarmers and tights and socks and hats and
cycling gloves with crocheted backs and leather palms.

Quoted message said:

Couldn't one contact any number of custom makers and get something
made of any material, including maybe even bamboo, to suit an
intended use? Without the fairytale window dressing, that is?

Sure. Or you can buy a full-custom frame from Rivendell, built to order
in a one-man shop in Minneapolis by Curt Goodrich. Currently the wait
list is 2-3 years, though. But in terms of production frames, Rivendell
is pretty much it for steel lugged frames if that's what you want.

There are other lugged production frames; Soma Speedster comes quickly
to mind.

And, for about the same price of a Riv production frame, you can get a
custom made, lugged frame in your choice of color from Waterford,
delivered on a timely basis. Of course, the Waterfords come sans the
fairytale window dressing, the tribalism and the warm, fuzzy BS from
The Grant.

Quoted message said:

There is no fairytale window dressing, though.

"No fairytale window dressing"? Quickbeam? Bombadil? Rivendell?

still just me said:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:02:05 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Many people distinguish between Free China, Taiwan ROC and The Peoples'
Republic for a variety of reasons. Including me.
--

Holding on to that, eh?

Him and around 23 million Taiwanese.

/s

Ozark Bicycle said:

Wayne Pein said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Nov 18, 6:03 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

>Ozark Bicycle wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>On Nov 18, 12:42 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

>>>You mean when the manufacturers stop making 650B tires?

Quoted message said:

>>How 'bout when sources like QBP stop stocking them due to lack of
>>demand? How 'bout the poor customer having to special order and pay
>>through the snout for a pair of tires (or worse, rims) which confer
>>*absolutely no advantage* over the commonly available standards like
>>559/26" and 622/700C?

Quoted message said:

>If there are no advantages to 650B as compared to both 559 and 700C,
>then based on your logic 559 and 700C confer no advantage over 650B.

Quoted message said:

Other than being widely and easily available and well priced due to
competition in the marketplace.

Quoted message said:

>Further, if all three sizes are equal in terms of performance, why do
>people have 559 for one bike and 770C for another?

Quoted message said:

Why don't you tell me?

Don't play dumb. It's for mt. bikes and road bikes.

That ain't necessarily so. You need to get out more.

You need to bite me.

Wayne

Wayne Pein said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Nov 18, 9:08 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ozark Bicycle wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>On Nov 18, 6:03 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Ozark Bicycle wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>On Nov 18, 12:42 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>You mean when the manufacturers stop making 650B tires?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>How 'bout when sources like QBP stop stocking them due to lack of
>>>demand? How 'bout the poor customer having to special order and pay
>>>through the snout for a pair of tires (or worse, rims) which confer
>>>*absolutely no advantage* over the commonly available standards like
>>>559/26" and 622/700C?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>If there are no advantages to 650B as compared to both 559 and 700C,
>>then based on your logic 559 and 700C confer no advantage over 650B.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Other than being widely and easily available and well priced due to
>competition in the marketplace.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>Further, if all three sizes are equal in terms of performance, why do
>>people have 559 for one bike and 770C for another?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Why don't you tell me?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't play dumb. It's for mt. bikes and road bikes.

Quoted message said:

That ain't necessarily so. You need to get out more.

You need to bite me.

From a mind that defends 650B........ ;-)

Tim McNamara said:

But a perusal through the Rivendell catalog will find things that make
the racerboys laugh as hard as most Americans laugh at the racerboys.

I saw the hatchet on the home page and kept going anyhow <g>.

Quoted message said:

Things like baggy shorts and pants, seersucker riding shirts, wool
jerseys and armwarmers and legwarmers and tights and socks and hats and
cycling gloves with crocheted backs and leather palms.

And [censored] about "too many speeds". Ahem. Loaded touring (hatchet?),
I'll take as many as possible, and Ergo, too, please.

IME, people are jealous of crochet suntan hands. "Where can I get
those [gloves]?"

Quoted message said:

There is no fairytale window dressing, though.

Referring to a fictional place... elves, etc. etc. Don't get me wrong,
I don't mind at all (WCFP) (NO) (whocaresinthefirstplacenoone), I was
in the Boy Scouts, have carried tent and tent pegs (hatchet ref. #2)
on bike, and so on. No elves at Holdsworth or Roberts-- or at least,
none in the catalogs I ordered from!

Quoted message said:

What Grant presents in
his catalog is how he and his friends ride bike. He puts his personal
preferences into his product line and sells the stuff he likes to use.
Enough people have similar preferences that he's remained in business
ever since 1994.

Long may it wave. Craftsmanship, attention to detail, stuff that
works.

650C is at least a lot easier. But, similar to 650B "backlash", I had
a few discussions IRT wheel size when my other half got her 650C Guru.
Like everything, some people don't accept other than "standard". I
heard "that was a mistake". Um, I disagree...

Point is, having frame geometry other than 75deg seat tube, 71deg head
tube, and a top tube that is still too long, with 700C wheels.

Proof is in the riding. Not posing as any kind of sizing expert (PTL!)
but I'm seeing a bike that fits and handles. She says it's the first
time she's been really comfortable on a bike (the Terry Butterfly
making a large contribution), and she hammers on the thing (age/job
hours adj.) She rode the old 700C bike, with above noted problems, all
over the place. The Guru is a lot better (fits in the trunk with only
the front wheel off, too <g>😉.

(Excuse long wind-up plz): If Peterson delivers similar for his
customers with the slightly different-sized 650B, at worst it's no
skin off my nose. But the criticisms IRT rim and tire availability and
cost stand.

That said, it gets to the point where you have to give others credit
for being grown-ups sometimes, you know? --D-y

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Nov 18, 10:34 pm, [email hidden] wrote:
Gee, it's not 1974 anymore, Frank (Did ya get the news? Nixon is
dead.). The selection of available rims has changed dramatically in
those 33 years.

The selection of 650B rims is growing. Rigida makes 3 rims - the AS 25
WI, V38 and the ST 32. Velocity, who has been leading the charge with
its Synergy rim, and now Sun/Ringle is being pushed by Kirk Pacenti,
Grant and many others. In fact, if you want to comment, join on in:

http://tinyurl.com/2s7e6w

bfd said:

On Nov 19, 3:56 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Nov 18, 10:34 pm, [email hidden] wrote:
Gee, it's not 1974 anymore, Frank (Did ya get the news? Nixon is
dead.). The selection of available rims has changed dramatically in
those 33 years.

The selection of 650B rims is growing.

It would have a hard time getting smaller, eh?

Quoted message said:

Rigida makes 3 rims - the AS 25
WI, V38 and the ST 32. Velocity, who has been leading the charge with
its Synergy rim,

Wow - a choice of *4* different rims -I'm overwhelmed!

Quoted message said:

and now Sun/Ringle is being pushed by Kirk Pacenti,
Grant and many others. In fact, if you want to comment, join on in:

http://tinyurl.com/2s7e6w

Why bother? The 650B dinosaur is headed for the museum, where it
belongs.

Ozark Bicycle said:

bfd said:

On Nov 19, 3:56 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Nov 18, 10:34 pm, [email hidden] wrote:
Gee, it's not 1974 anymore, Frank (Did ya get the news? Nixon is
dead.). The selection of available rims has changed dramatically in
those 33 years.

Quoted message said:

The selection of 650B rims is growing.

It would have a hard time getting smaller, eh?

Quoted message said:

Rigida makes 3 rims - the AS 25
WI, V38 and the ST 32. Velocity, who has been leading the charge with
its Synergy rim,

Wow - a choice of *4* different rims -I'm overwhelmed!

Actually, Velocity alone makes 4 different 650B/584mm rims: Aerohead,
Synergy (previously mentioned), Glider and Triple-V:

http://www.chainringtransitauthority.com/store/650b/650b_rims.shtml#aerohead

Also, it appears that KORE is coming out with 650B/27.5 rim and Kendra
will be bringing out a new 650B tire:

http://650bpalace.blogspot.com/2007/11/i-didnt-want-to-be-trigger-man.html

Quoted message said:

Why bother? The 650B dinosaur is headed for the museum, where it

belongs.

Well, the comments so far on the Sun/Ringle 650B blog have all been
positive. If you and others are so oppose, then only the *favorable*
comments will appear and the next thing you know, another 650B/
27.5/584mm rim!

Quoted message said:

Wayne Pein said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

On Nov 18, 6:03 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> On Nov 18, 12:42 pm, Wayne Pein <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Further, if all three sizes are equal in terms of performance, why do
> people have 559 for one bike and 770C for another?
Why don't you tell me?

Don't play dumb. It's for mt. bikes and road bikes.

Quoted message said:

I don't think Ozark's playing, Wayne. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> It seems to me the real benefit is that someone with 650B could replace
> two sizes and two bikes with one. That may be reason enough for that
> person.
"Replace two bikes with one"?

650B is between 559 and 700C in diameter. You claim that 650B offers no
advantages over either. Obviously some people do.

Quoted message said:

The one advantage of 650B that makes sense to me is this: In the last
10 years, it's been very difficult to find 700c bikes with sufficient
clearance for fenders and tires wider than 28mm. I've battled that
problem when helping others try to make their "good bikes" more
useful.

650B offers a possible solution. Changing to that rim & tire size
allows more clearance. Yes, building wheels (and probably changing
brakes) isn't cheap. But it's probably cheaper than changing the
entire bike.

BTW, the first I heard of 650B was back in, oh, 1974 or so. Fred
DeLong recommended that as the optimum wheel size for touring
tandems.

Now, Fred DeLong was generally known as a) extremely knowledgeable
about bike technology b) not connected in any way with bike
marketing. He wasn't making such a recommendation to delude the poor
people reading his writing. He was making the recommendation because
he thought it made sense. And he clearly wasn't worried about 650B
vanishing from the world.

Of course, it may be that discount bike mechanics also rail against
Fred DeLong just like they do against Grant Peterson, Jobst Brandt,
and anyone else who makes them feel inferior.

I truly have no dog in this fight. 650B is just a tire size, not an ethos!
In 650B we stock both $10 tires and $80 vintage French tires but few
(four?) models, as the scant volume won't support many.
In 700C we stock literally 50+ different tires as the demand is broad
and consistent. Most LBS will probably be similar in that selection.

As with every other bit of cycling equipment, some riders will find a
useful place for these wheels, others will roll their eyes and ride
away. If it works for you, that's wonderful. If not, change them.

(I once built a new Rivendell 650B frameset with 700-28 and drum brakes.
That merely required different frame ends)
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

bfd said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

bfd said:

On Nov 19, 3:56 am, Ozark Bicycle
<[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Nov 18, 10:34 pm, [email hidden] wrote:
> Gee, it's not 1974 anymore, Frank (Did ya get the news? Nixon is
> dead.). The selection of available rims has changed dramatically in
> those 33 years.
The selection of 650B rims is growing.

It would have a hard time getting smaller, eh?

Quoted message said:

Rigida makes 3 rims - the AS 25
WI, V38 and the ST 32. Velocity, who has been leading the charge with
its Synergy rim,

Wow - a choice of *4* different rims -I'm overwhelmed!

Actually, Velocity alone makes 4 different 650B/584mm rims: Aerohead,
Synergy (previously mentioned), Glider and Triple-V:

http://www.chainringtransitauthority.com/store/650b/650b_rims.shtml#aerohead

Also, it appears that KORE is coming out with 650B/27.5 rim and Kendra
will be bringing out a new 650B tire:

http://650bpalace.blogspot.com/2007/11/i-didnt-want-to-be-trigger-man.html

Quoted message said:

Why bother? The 650B dinosaur is headed for the museum, where it

belongs.

Well, the comments so far on the Sun/Ringle 650B blog have all been
positive. If you and others are so oppose, then only the *favorable*
comments will appear and the next thing you know, another 650B/
27.5/584mm rim!

Now if only GT would reintroduce a 700D sized wheel, we could all stop
bickering about 650B 😉

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And the target is Rivendell, a small hands on company employing a
dozen people that tries to live up to it's mission statement, offers
a decent product, stands behind everything it sells, nothing of
which is "Made In China."

Quoted message said:

It's always hi-larious watching the anti-Rivendell dudgeon some people
get themselves worked into. It's just a small bike company. They just
sell they stuff they like. All people have to do is not buy it if they
don't agree.

That about sums it up. It's not as if Grant Peterson has the kind of
marketing clout that's going to change the world. He markets to a network of
people who already believe in his ideas & products. He writes well & spins a
good yarn, so even those who disagree with a lot of what he says still enjoy
the Rivendell Reader.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Really...are they any worse than one of the bigs telling you that
Every Bike Needs Disc Brakes, or Tire And Fender Clearance Is For
Sissies, or Integrated Headsets Are Stiff Yet Compliant?