650Beware?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

What does cathexis mean?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Andrew Muzi said:

Mr Sherman:
>> This is a defense of the system?
Marian wrote:
> Debating is only a worthwhile pursuit when the other party is willing
> to listen. When the other party refuses to listen it stops being a
> debate and starts being an argument.
>
> Since you have chosen to wear blinders and stick your thumbs in your
> ears with regards to any refutation of any part of your personal
> belief system of what China is, how China is improving, and where
> China is going I have no reason to continue writing to you about this
> subject.
Don't feel offended. Tom doesn't understand commerce in America either.

I understand all too well how commerce in the U$A benefits a few at the
expense of the many, when corporations run the government and tilt the
playing field.

Speaking of America (the entire western hemisphere land mass), many in
South and Central America are finally throwing off the shackles of the
IMF/WTO and U$/EU corporate exploitation. The one side benefit of the
Conquest of Iraq has been that the U$ is too busy to overthrow these
democratically elected governments, as happened in the past to Jacobo
Árbenz and Salvador Allende.

Marion offered you a glimpse into China.

Who is Marion (sic)?

Quoted message said:

You refused.

Ms. Rosenberg also implied several times that I was making certain
arguments when I was not. I rightfully pointed out these errors.

Quoted message said:

How are we to credit your
dissertation on world politics when we
know that you refuse first hand knowledge?

I was not contending the factual information posted by Ms. Rosenberg,
but her application of it to the discussion at hand. There is a difference.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

What does cathexis mean?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

When I read prose addressed to a wider audience,
I look up what I do not understand. Technical
terms I expect the author to define. You addressed
yourself directly to me and assumed the responsibility
of making yourself clear.

What do you mean by cathexis?

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

What does cathexis mean?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

When I read prose addressed to a wider audience, I look up what I do
not understand. Technical terms I expect the author to define. You
addressed yourself directly to me and assumed the responsibility of
making yourself clear.

What do you mean by cathexis?

Had your Pedant Flakes today, I see, and now you're just being tedious.
I gave you the reference to a workable definition. Work it out for
yourself. Most everyone else with an interest in understanding the term
managed to take the responsibility to do so.

Do you need a definition of "tedious" too?

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

What does cathexis mean?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

When I read prose addressed to a wider audience,
I look up what I do not understand. Technical
terms I expect the author to define. You addressed
yourself directly to me and assumed the responsibility
of making yourself clear.

What do you mean by cathexis?

No, I don't understand why this message was written. There appears to be a
link to a definition, which answers the question pretty well. Is it just
some personal gripe which results in a failure to follow links?

clive

Clive George said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> What does cathexis mean?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

Quoted message said:

When I read prose addressed to a wider audience,
I look up what I do not understand. Technical
terms I expect the author to define. You addressed
yourself directly to me and assumed the responsibility
of making yourself clear.

Quoted message said:

What do you mean by cathexis?

No, I don't understand why this message was written. There appears to be a
link to a definition, which answers the question pretty well. Is it just
some personal gripe which results in a failure to follow links?

clive

Michael is famous for complaining loudly when people make his
newsreading difficult. Like expecting him to read a subject line. Or
posting on an incorrect level of a thread.

In other words, he has a cathexis for being spoon-fed usenet the way
he wants it to be.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Marian said:

It's just like the US in the
19th century.

To me this is the essence of the phenomenon. With a population that
dwarfs that of America's industrial age and the aid of modern
technology tending to accelerate and amplify both ill and beneficial
effects, China's great economic miracle qualifies as a latter day
Gilded Age writ very large.

Granted they're two civilizations with vastly different cultural
lineages, but it's unfortunate, in many cases heartbreaking, that the
country is intent on learning from its own mistakes rather than from
those the West stumbled through a century before.

But it's hardly surprising: I don't expect it will change until China
establishes a regime that suffers a healthy measure of public
oversight.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:

> What does cathexis mean?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

When I read prose addressed to a wider audience, I look up what I do
not understand. Technical terms I expect the author to define. You
addressed yourself directly to me and assumed the responsibility of
making yourself clear.

What do you mean by cathexis?

Had your Pedant Flakes today, I see, and now you're just being tedious.
I gave you the reference to a workable definition. Work it out for
yourself. Most everyone else with an interest in understanding the term
managed to take the responsibility to do so.

Do you need a definition of "tedious" too?

All I know is that cathexis is a technical term
used by people trained to it. I need to know what
_you_ mean by it.

Technical terms are misused by laymen all the time.
Somebody was speaking knowingly about fire, used
kilowatt, and called it energy.

You are trained to use of the word cathexis. I am not.
Anything I say about the meaning is worse than useless.
What do you intend with the word cathexis?

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,

Clive George said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Tim said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:

> What does cathexis mean?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

When I read prose addressed to a wider audience,
I look up what I do not understand. Technical
terms I expect the author to define. You addressed
yourself directly to me and assumed the responsibility
of making yourself clear.

What do you mean by cathexis?

No, I don't understand why this message was written. There appears to be a
link to a definition, which answers the question pretty well. Is it just
some personal gripe which results in a failure to follow links?

It is a technical term. McNamara used it in a forum
where its technical meaning is not understood. He
addressed himself to me, but will not say straight out
what he means. jim beam answers questions on technical
matters by copying a URL, and refuses to say what he
means. Is jim beam McNamara's sock puppet?

--
Michael Press

In article
<[email hidden]
egroups.com>,

Hank Wirtz said:

Clive George said:

"Michael Press" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> Michael Press <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> > What does cathexis mean?

Quoted message said:

>http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cathexis

Quoted message said:

When I read prose addressed to a wider audience,
I look up what I do not understand. Technical
terms I expect the author to define. You addressed
yourself directly to me and assumed the responsibility
of making yourself clear.

Quoted message said:

What do you mean by cathexis?

No, I don't understand why this message was written. There appears to be a
link to a definition, which answers the question pretty well. Is it just
some personal gripe which results in a failure to follow links?

clive

Michael is famous for complaining loudly when people make his
newsreading difficult. Like expecting him to read a subject line. Or
posting on an incorrect level of a thread.

In other words, he has a cathexis for being spoon-fed usenet the way
he wants it to be.

It is a technical term. McNamara addressed himself to me
but will not make his meaning clear. He hides behind
technical terms.

--
Michael Press

Luke Siragusa said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Marian said:

It's just like the US in the
19th century.

To me this is the essence of the phenomenon. With a population that
dwarfs that of America's industrial age and the aid of modern
technology tending to accelerate and amplify both ill and beneficial
effects, China's great economic miracle qualifies as a latter day
Gilded Age writ very large.

Granted they're two civilizations with vastly different cultural
lineages, but it's unfortunate, in many cases heartbreaking, that the
country is intent on learning from its own mistakes rather than from
those the West stumbled through a century before.

Mistakes? A few greedy immoral people exploiting the rest is the natural
order of things, unless the majority can organize themselves well enough
to throw off their oppressors. Fascism/feudalism does not happen by mistake.

Quoted message said:

But it's hardly surprising: I don't expect it will change until China
establishes a regime that suffers a healthy measure of public
oversight.

Why would they want to do that, when the current system gives more power
to the elite? Power is the goal, not the greater social good.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Andrew Muzi wrote:
> Mr Sherman:
>>> This is a defense of the system?
> Marian wrote:
>> Debating is only a worthwhile pursuit when the other party is willing
>> to listen. When the other party refuses to listen it stops being a
>> debate and starts being an argument.
>>
>> Since you have chosen to wear blinders and stick your thumbs in your
>> ears with regards to any refutation of any part of your personal
>> belief system of what China is, how China is improving, and where
>> China is going I have no reason to continue writing to you about this
>> subject.
> Don't feel offended. Tom doesn't understand commerce in America either.
I understand all too well how commerce in the U$A benefits a few at the
expense of the many, when corporations run the government and tilt the
playing field.

Speaking of America (the entire western hemisphere land mass), many in
South and Central America are finally throwing off the shackles of the
IMF/WTO and U$/EU corporate exploitation. The one side benefit of the
Conquest of Iraq has been that the U$ is too busy to overthrow these
democratically elected governments, as happened in the past to Jacobo
Árbenz and Salvador Allende.

Marion offered you a glimpse into China.

Who is Marion (sic)?

Sorry, Marian.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You refused.

Ms. Rosenberg also implied several times that I was making certain
arguments when I was not. I rightfully pointed out these errors.

Quoted message said:

How are we to credit your
dissertation on world politics when we
know that you refuse first hand knowledge?

I was not contending the factual information posted by Ms. Rosenberg,
but her application of it to the discussion at hand. There is a difference.

OK. Understood.

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Sherman

Quoted message said:

Luke Siragusa said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Marian said:

It's just like the US in the
19th century.

To me this is the essence of the phenomenon. With a population that
dwarfs that of America's industrial age and the aid of modern
technology tending to accelerate and amplify both ill and beneficial
effects, China's great economic miracle qualifies as a latter day
Gilded Age writ very large.

Granted they're two civilizations with vastly different cultural
lineages, but it's unfortunate, in many cases heartbreaking, that the
country is intent on learning from its own mistakes rather than from
those the West stumbled through a century before.

Mistakes? A few greedy immoral people exploiting the rest is the natural
order of things, unless the majority can organize themselves well enough
to throw off their oppressors.

If it's the 'natural order of things' why would one want to organize to
upset it? That would be unnatural.

Quoted message said:

Fascism/feudalism does not happen by mistake.

Never said or meant to imply that it did. The mistakes I was referring
to were ecological damage, economic inequity, and social injustice. You
know, of the type that proliferated in the 19th century in, among other
places, that bastion of freedom and equality, the good ole USA.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But it's hardly surprising: I don't expect it will change until China
establishes a regime that suffers a healthy measure of public
oversight.

Why would they want to do that, when the current system gives more power
to the elite? Power is the goal, not the greater social good.

They may not have a choice. If peaceful change is denied it comes
inevitably by violence.

Luke Siragusa said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Sherman

Quoted message said:

Luke Siragusa said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,
Marian <[email hidden]> wrote:

> It's just like the US in the
> 19th century.
To me this is the essence of the phenomenon. With a population that
dwarfs that of America's industrial age and the aid of modern
technology tending to accelerate and amplify both ill and beneficial
effects, China's great economic miracle qualifies as a latter day
Gilded Age writ very large.

Granted they're two civilizations with vastly different cultural
lineages, but it's unfortunate, in many cases heartbreaking, that the
country is intent on learning from its own mistakes rather than from
those the West stumbled through a century before.

Mistakes? A few greedy immoral people exploiting the rest is the natural
order of things, unless the majority can organize themselves well enough
to throw off their oppressors.

If it's the 'natural order of things' why would one want to organize to
upset it? That would be unnatural.

Because we can do better than to follow the baser human impulses.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fascism/feudalism does not happen by mistake.

Never said or meant to imply that it did. The mistakes I was referring
to were ecological damage, economic inequity, and social injustice. You
know, of the type that proliferated in the 19th century in, among other
places, that bastion of freedom and equality, the good ole USA.

How are these mistakes? Ecological damage is a side effect, while
economic equality and social injustice are the goals of a class system.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But it's hardly surprising: I don't expect it will change until China
establishes a regime that suffers a healthy measure of public
oversight.

Why would they want to do that, when the current system gives more power
to the elite? Power is the goal, not the greater social good.

They may not have a choice. If peaceful change is denied it comes
inevitably by violence.

The people who want to rule over others are arrogant enough to believe
that they can hold onto power. And in many cases they can do so, by
pitting their subjects against each other through religious, racial and
cultural differences.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Sherman

Quoted message said:

Luke Siragusa said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Sherman

Quoted message said:

Luke Siragusa wrote:
> In article
> <[email hidden]>,
> Marian <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> It's just like the US in the
>> 19th century.
> To me this is the essence of the phenomenon. With a population that
> dwarfs that of America's industrial age and the aid of modern
> technology tending to accelerate and amplify both ill and beneficial
> effects, China's great economic miracle qualifies as a latter day
> Gilded Age writ very large.
>
> Granted they're two civilizations with vastly different cultural
> lineages, but it's unfortunate, in many cases heartbreaking, that the
> country is intent on learning from its own mistakes rather than from
> those the West stumbled through a century before.
Mistakes? A few greedy immoral people exploiting the rest is the natural
order of things, unless the majority can organize themselves well enough
to throw off their oppressors.

If it's the 'natural order of things' why would one want to organize to
upset it? That would be unnatural.

Because we can do better than to follow the baser human impulses.

I agree. It's better to be unnatural.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fascism/feudalism does not happen by mistake.

Never said or meant to imply that it did. The mistakes I was referring
to were ecological damage, economic inequity, and social injustice. You
know, of the type that proliferated in the 19th century in, among other
places, that bastion of freedom and equality, the good ole USA.

How are these mistakes? Ecological damage is a side effect, while
economic equality and social injustice are the goals of a class system.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ == economic [in]equality?

Well if the 'class system' or any other order for that matter enshrines
these inherently destabilizing ills as goals, to the extent that it
succeeds, it's implementing its own destruction, or decline at the very
least.

You've a point though, I applied the term 'mistakes' to what are more
precisely 'effects'. The mistakes were in embracing a system that
proliferated these scourges.

I'd like to think that, fitfully, imperfectly, over the course of the
last couple of centuries the West has demonstrated a record of
recognizing these ills and applying remedies. Would only that China not
be intent on repeating our history and be more vigilant in tempering
the maladies attendant upon its own nascent version of capitalism.
That's what I was trying to convey.

But expecting enlightened leadership to graduate from Despot U. is
unrealistic...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> But it's hardly surprising: I don't expect it will change until China
> establishes a regime that suffers a healthy measure of public
> oversight.

Why would they want to do that, when the current system gives more power
to the elite? Power is the goal, not the greater social good.

They may not have a choice. If peaceful change is denied it comes
inevitably by violence.

The people who want to rule over others are arrogant enough to believe
that they can hold onto power. And in many cases they can do so, by
pitting their subjects against each other through religious, racial and
cultural differences.

At some point what beliefs arrogance begets is irrelevant; a reckoning
with reality becomes inevitable. With respect to reconciling the
Chinese Communist Party's despotism with liberal, laissez faire
capitalism and an increasingly affluent, educated and worldly populace:
though the geriatrics in Zhongnanhai may not know it, I think they've
let the genie out of the bottle and there's no putting him back.

Marian what's your take?

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Andrew Muzi said:

Mr Sherman:
>> This is a defense of the system?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Marian wrote:
> Debating is only a worthwhile pursuit when the other party is willing
> to listen. When the other party refuses to listen it stops being a
> debate and starts being an argument.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Since you have chosen to wear blinders and stick your thumbs in your
> ears with regards to any refutation of any part of your personal
> belief system of what China is, how China is improving, and where
> China is going I have no reason to continue writing to you about this
> subject.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't feel offended. Tom doesn't understand commerce in America either..

Quoted message said:

I understand all too well how commerce in the U$A benefits a few at the
expense of the many, when corporations run the government and tilt the
playing field.

Quoted message said:

Speaking of America (the entire western hemisphere land mass), many in
South and Central America are finally throwing off the shackles of the
IMF/WTO and U$/EU corporate exploitation. The one side benefit of the
Conquest of Iraq has been that the U$ is too busy to overthrow these
democratically elected governments, as happened in the past to Jacobo
Árbenz and Salvador Allende.

Marion offered you a glimpse into China.
You refused. How are we to credit your
dissertation on world politics when we
know that you refuse first hand knowledge?

On the one hand I don't intend to argue with Tom anymore.
On the other hand I'm too busy doing something else right now to be
online much.
What follows has nothing to do with bikes.

I am currently sitting in the office/bedroom of a friend. The floor
is bare cement. The plaster walls are peeling. And the minimalist
pad on the plywood bed is thinner than what I use between myself and
the ground when I go camping. I won't even get into describing what
the bathroom looks like because that's equal parts China and equal
parts caused by him being a bachelor.

It has nothing to do with a lack of money. Even if there might be a
personal lack of money in terms of salary (though the nice laptop, the
amazing variety of men's skincare products, and the now empty bottle
of single malt scotch belie that idea) there most certainly is no
money or status lacking here.

In his sport (olympic class racing catamarans) he and his team are in
competition to officially become Team China. His bosses are paying
the other coach from US $400 a day to come here and help out with the
team. They are paying me US $180 a day to translate.

But if you squint and you ignore the stuff he got from the equipment
pool or the goodies he has bought with his own salary that are
scattered about the room it doesn't look all that different from what
you see in a factory dormitory. In fact, if you go next door to the
dormitory where six of the sailors (from one of the other boats) stay
it looks exactly the same as what you'd see.

-M

Marian Rosenberg said:

...
On the one hand I don't intend to argue with Tom anymore.

butbutbut, I thought this was Argument! Did I get the wrong office by
mistake?

Quoted message said:

...The floor is bare cement....

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Calling the floor cement instead of
concrete is like calling the assemblage of hub, spokes, rim and tire on
the bicycle a "rim" instead of a "wheel".

Cement is a binder. Concrete is an aggregate bound with cement.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:49:14 GMT, Michael Press <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that I am entirely forthcoming
while others refuse to say what they mean.

But not everyone - after all, someone did say that you'd had your
pedant flakes today !

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Andrew Price said:

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 05:49:14 GMT, Michael Press <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Seems to me that I am entirely forthcoming
while others refuse to say what they mean.

But not everyone - after all, someone did say that you'd had your
pedant flakes today !

Where was I instructing?

--
Michael Press

Hank Wirtz said:

bfd said:

"Hank Wirtz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Nov 17, 5:44 pm, bfd <[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Nov 17, 8:33 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > On Nov 17, 9:26 am, still just me <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > OTOH, Rivendell has reported that flogging 650B has proven effective
> > in boosting sales and raising the good 'ol Bottom Line!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> That's right. Since about 2003/04, when Grant P/Riv decided to
> dedicate their lineup to 650B, the company has actually been
> profitable!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> IF you look at Riv's current lineup of "production" bikes, i.e., those
> made in Japan or Taiwan, its mostly 650B. There's the Glorius/Wilbury
> mixte - 650B, Saluki - 650B, Bleriot - 650B and the arriving soon,
> Bombadil - a 650B mtb!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> What's "asleep" or in "hiatus" is the 700c Quickbeam, 700c Legolas and
> 700c Rambo. About the only non-650B bike Riv sells, outside of its
> custom, is the Atlantis, which comes in 559 and 700c depending on what
> size is ordered. Of course, there's rumors that the Atlantis is on the
> block to be "put to sleep" next.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The rumour as I heard it, is that the Saluki and Atlantis will have
attributes combined into a new bike with the Atlantis name. The
Atlantis is their best seller, so it's not going anywhere. I'd guess
that the Bleriot cannibalized Saluki sales.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And as for 700c, they introduced the A. Homer Hilsen this year.

Quoted message said:

Yes, the AHH is a 700c bike, but its only comes in large sizes like 57 or
58cm.

You say that as if that disqualifies its existence...

Quoted message said:

If you need something smaller, then Riv prefers you get on a 650B
bike. I can see Grant making the Atlantis a 650B bike, why not!

Because it's their "Expedition-level" touring bike. tire and rim
availability is an issue for tourists, and ONLY offering 650B would be
seriously dumb. There are people in the Surly LHT owners group who
argue that 700c has too little availability to be good for loaded
touring. They argue that since you can get 559 tires at Wal-Mart and
in Timbuktu, that's the size you want.

Quoted message said:

That way
he only has to stock 650B tires and rims. Simplifying inventory always seems
to work....

And that's your argument for INTRODUCING an arcane size? Do you
actually believe what you're saying?

Not a difficult job to do. I have converted my 56cm Atlantis, sold as
a 559-wheeled bike, to 650B. The fit and ride are very good, better
than as a 26/559 bike. A slight adjustment of the cantilever brake
posts would be all that is necessary (even as-is, the frame I have was
convertible by changing to Tektro cantilevers.)