Jobst was Re: Sheldon

Your irony meter may have hit nine, but my hypocrisy meter just exploded. This is the same guy that
made fun of me a while back, I didn't appreciate that then, and I don't appreciate this now. I have
bone disease in my back and as a result my spine is very contorted. When I was riding my road bike
the handlebars were too narrow and I would become out of breath. I didn't realize that the
handlebars were playing a role in what was happening, this group helped me figure it out. Anyway,
this guy chided in and was making fun of my disease and the thought that handlebars had anything to
do with breathing. It kinda hurts to bring it up again, but this guy is a classless jerk, is it
possible to get him banned from this newsgroup? I don't understand what is so wrong with people like
this, that they treat other people, strangers in fact, the way that they do.

"Tim Bernard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gfksa.697737$L1.200688@sccrnsc02... The
hypocrital Jobst wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

anonymous said:

Deepest appologies for any offense, none was meant. There appears to be a great deal of respect
in this newsgroup for him, and I certainly do not wish to tread on any toes.

Oh! So only because others respect Sheldon you withdraw your snide remarks, otherwise you stand by
your comments, inappropriate as they are. How about responding to the content of what is offered
here on its own merit rather than who said it?

I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

Quoted message said:

Is rudeness why you write anonymously?

I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

Wait! Don't you have a habit of besmirching anonymous posters? Hmm, my irony meter just hit 9. Maybe
you should be reminded of your own words? Respond to the content not who said it. It's as easy to
post under a real sounding name, fake or not, as it is to post under an obvious alias.

Plus, we know from your posts that rudeness is not confined to anonymous posters.

Have a good day,

Tim

Quoted message said:

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

"Tim Bernard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gfksa.697737$L1.200688@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

The hypocrital Jobst wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

anonymous said:

Deepest appologies for any offense, none was meant. There appears to be a great deal of
respect in this newsgroup for him, and I certainly do not wish to tread on any toes.

Oh! So only because others respect Sheldon you withdraw your snide remarks, otherwise you stand
by your comments, inappropriate as they are. How about responding to the content of what is
offered here on its own merit rather than who said it?

I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

Quoted message said:

Is rudeness why you write anonymously?

I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

Wait! Don't you have a habit of besmirching anonymous posters? Hmm, my irony meter just hit 9.
Maybe you should be reminded of your own words? Respond to the content not who said it. It's as
easy to post

under

Quoted message said:

a real sounding name, fake or not, as it is to post under an obvious

alias.

Quoted message said:

Plus, we know from your posts that rudeness is not confined to anonymous posters.

Have a good day,

Tim

I gotta say, as much as I tend to like straightforward speakers like Jobst, and I do get a kick out
of many of his off-camber responses, and I really value him for his contributions to cycling, though
I think he does go way overboard, like someone who thinks too highly of themselves. He's an old dog
and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bill Toler"

Quoted message said:

It kinda hurts to bring it up again, but this guy is a classless jerk, is it possible to get him
banned from this newsgroup?

Nope. This is about as uncontrolled a medium as exists anywhere.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It kinda hurts to bring it up again, but this guy is a classless jerk, is it possible to get him
banned from this newsgroup?

Nope. This is about as uncontrolled a medium as exists anywhere.

well, we can always just roll our eyes everytime he starts in on his "back in my day, we used to
have to make our own innertubes. and, ah, raise the silkworms to make thread for our tubulars!"

fc

Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1 of a ton)

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

I agree. I really believe that Jobst and Sheldon are national treasures in the bicycling world and
even though I may disagree with them at times, they're the ones who are probably right! They're
about the only ones who I listen to. "Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tim Bernard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gfksa.697737$L1.200688@sccrnsc02...

Quoted message said:

The hypocrital Jobst wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

anonymous writes:

> Deepest appologies for any offense, none was meant. There appears to be a great deal of
> respect in this newsgroup for him, and I certainly do not wish to tread on any toes.

Oh! So only because others respect Sheldon you withdraw your snide remarks, otherwise you
stand by your comments, inappropriate as they are. How about responding to the content of what
is offered here on its own merit rather than who said it?

I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

Quoted message said:

Is rudeness why you write anonymously?

I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

Wait! Don't you have a habit of besmirching anonymous posters? Hmm, my irony meter just hit 9.
Maybe you should be reminded of your own words? Respond to the content not who said it. It's as
easy to post

under

Quoted message said:

a real sounding name, fake or not, as it is to post under an obvious

alias.

Quoted message said:

Plus, we know from your posts that rudeness is not confined to anonymous posters.

Have a good day,

Tim

I gotta say, as much as I tend to like straightforward speakers like

Jobst,

Quoted message said:

and I do get a kick out of many of his off-camber responses, and I really value him for his
contributions to cycling, though I think he does go way overboard, like someone who thinks too
highly of themselves. He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo) said:

Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1 of a ton)

It's JB's right not to respond, but he first rode the alps in 1959:

www-math.science.unitn.itTourOpen ↗ of_the_Alps/1959/

He was there on compulsory military service, I'd guess he was at least
18. Suffice it to say I think he is old enough to enter Masters races.

I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

"George F. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I agree. I really believe that Jobst and Sheldon are national treasures

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the bicycling world and even though I may disagree with them at times, they're the ones who are
probably right! They're about the only ones who

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

listen to.

I find it rather unfortunate that at least one of the experts who frequent

this

Quoted message said:

news group finds it necessary to boost his own ego by constantly being

rude.

Quoted message said:

For myself, I've been riding for about a half century, I'm the only one

who

Quoted message said:

ever works on my bikes, I build my own wheels having never read a single

book

Quoted message said:

on the subject and I manage to get by while ignoring this individual but

I'll

Quoted message said:

bet a lot of newer riders who could use some of his advice are put off by

his

Quoted message said:

attitude. I thought we were supposed to be helping each, but rudness is

seldom

Quoted message said:

helpful.

George F. Johnson A veteran for peace

I've been pretty quiet in this thread, trying to be a nice guy. I think that the last paragraph sums
it up for me nicely.

Mike

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo) said:

Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1

of a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ton)

It's JB's right not to respond, but he first rode the alps in 1959:

www-math.science.unitn.itTourOpen ↗ of_the_Alps/1959/

He was there on compulsory military service, I'd guess he was at least
18. Suffice it to say I think he is old enough to enter Masters races.

I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.

Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio! ;-)

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo) said:

Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century,

.1

Quoted message said:

of a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ton)

It's JB's right not to respond, but he first rode the alps in 1959:

www-math.science.unitn.itTourOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of_the_Alps/1959/

He was there on compulsory military service, I'd guess he was at least
18. Suffice it to say I think he is old enough to enter Masters races.

I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.

Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio! ;-)

Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol he puts out. Does anyone here
remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from "The Muppet Show"?

Robin Hubert

"George F. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I find it rather unfortunate that at least one of the experts who frequent

this

Quoted message said:

news group finds it necessary to boost his own ego by constantly being rude. For myself, I've been
riding for about a half century, I'm the only one who ever works on my bikes, I build my own
wheels having never read a single

book

Quoted message said:

on the subject

I dunno, one guy brags (or so you claim) about writing a book on wheel building, and you brag about
never having even read a book. I find the first accomplishment much more impressive, and perhaps
worth bragging rights.

The cycling world seems chock full of self-proclaimed experts dispensing advice on every conceivable
topic, including quite serious issues like those affecting safety. Unfortunately, most of those
"experts" have no qualifications, yet seem to have little concern for the consequences for others
following their dubious suggestions. Now that's arrogance! I don't think challenging a poster's
erroneous/unfounded claims is rude, I think making those claims in the first place goes beyond rude.

What is particularly rude is authoring and/or contributing to a thread that is completely ad
hominem. If you guys consider yourselves the arbiters of civility, your hypocrisy is staggering.

Well since Jobst doesn't want to post anonymously, then is stuck with this:

His age is 68.

preview.ussearch.compreview.jspOpen ↗
ip=94301-1345&searchState=CA&searchCity=Palo+Alto&searchStreet=351+Middlefield+Rd&searchLName=Brand-
t&searchFName=Jobst

Bob

Who does post semi-anonymously, and his age is 64.

On 03 May 2003 12:30:50 GMT, [email hidden]

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1 of a ton)

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Robin Hubert said:

Does anyone here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from "The Muppet Show"?

Do you mean Statler and Waldorf? They were my two favorite characters! (Well, after Animal, the
drummer for Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, anyway.)

Mark McMaster [email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>, "Robin Hubert"

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Qui si parla
Campagnolo) wrote:

> Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.

Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio! ;-)

Quoted message said:

Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol he puts out. Does anyone
here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from "The Muppet Show"?

This thread is turning into a pity party for people who feel picked on, so I want to say it right
here for Jobst's ears:

Jobst and I have argued (mostly trivially) over details here and there, but in my opinion he is
civil when he's not being trifled with or presented with questions already answered in the FAQ.
Certainly he is civil enough to make discussion with him interesting and useful.

More to the point, I'd much rather have Jobst, warts and all, as a contributor to the newsgroup than
I would have no Jobst, and if it means the hurt feelings of so many others go unsalved, that's a
cost I'm willing to accept.

I really don't know why a guy like Jobst bothers with this group: I suppose for entertainment and to
enlighten. Unlike most of us here, he's paid his dues, having done the heavy lifting of a lot of
fairly serious bicycle research, not just in wheels but in other areas, and his work has been
admiringly peer-reviewed. Jobst tends to back his work (especially with regard to wheels) with hard
research and an engineer's eye, two things I trust. His results are well-regarded by the smart and
experienced hands in this ng, mainly because they have tested his research by building wheels, and
his methods work.

The choice is probably not the polite and obsequious Jobst you crave or the current Jobst (and if it
was, this approach--public sniping and comparing him to Waldorf and Statler--is not going to change
his ways). It's this Jobst or no Jobst at all.

I don't have to ponder it. I choose Jobst.

"You will find these very feeling people are not very ready to do you good. They pay you by
feeling." -Samuel Johnson

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

Yeah. Statler & Waldorf.

Quoted message said:

Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol he puts out. Does anyone
here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from

"The

Quoted message said:

Muppet Show"?

Robin Hubert

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Robin Hubert"

Quoted message said:

"Robin Hubert" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Qui si parla
> Campagnolo) wrote:
>
> > Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new

tricks.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.

Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio!

;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol

he

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

puts out. Does anyone here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from

"The

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Muppet Show"?

This thread is turning into a pity party for people who feel picked on, so I want to say it right
here for Jobst's ears:

Jobst and I have argued (mostly trivially) over details here and there, but in my opinion he is
civil when he's not being trifled with or presented with questions already answered in the FAQ.
Certainly he is civil enough to make discussion with him interesting and useful.

More to the point, I'd much rather have Jobst, warts and all, as a contributor to the newsgroup
than I would have no Jobst, and if it means the hurt feelings of so many others go unsalved,
that's a cost I'm willing to accept.

I really don't know why a guy like Jobst bothers with this group: I suppose for entertainment and
to enlighten. Unlike most of us here, he's paid his dues, having done the heavy lifting of a lot
of fairly serious bicycle research, not just in wheels but in other areas, and his work has been
admiringly peer-reviewed. Jobst tends to back his work (especially with regard to wheels) with
hard research and an engineer's eye, two things I trust. His results are well-regarded by the
smart and experienced hands in this ng, mainly because they have tested his research by building
wheels, and his methods work.

The choice is probably not the polite and obsequious Jobst you crave or the current Jobst (and if
it was, this approach--public sniping and comparing him to Waldorf and Statler--is not going to
change his ways). It's this Jobst or no Jobst at all.

I don't have to ponder it. I choose Jobst.

Amen. Now let us sing hymn 857, "Our Lord is a Mighty Hub."

I mean really, Jobst troubles with this group because it brings him some sort of enjoyment. There
are are only a few people in this world who really give a rat's ass about whether a rim hangs from
or stands on the spokes -- and a good number of those people probably are on this NG (including me).
But try bringing up this subject up at your next office party. Your co-workers will run screaming
for the wine box. God bless Jobst, but we need to get a little perspective here. -- Jay Beattie.

bobv said:

Well since Jobst doesn't want to post anonymously, then is stuck with this:

His age is 68.

Having seen Jobst speak at Palo Alto Bicycle last year, I can only say that I wish I am as well
preserved as he is at 68.

--
R.

<> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements <> The tall blond one. always cause trouble." <>
[email hidden]

Jay Beattie said:

I mean really, Jobst troubles with this group because it brings him some sort of enjoyment. There
are are only a few people in this world who really give a rat's ass about whether a rim hangs from
or stands on the spokes -- and a good number of those people probably are on this NG (including
me). But try bringing up this subject up at your next office party.

However, if you want to see someone's thought processes at work, it is a nice problem to pose. I
often use it when interviewing people for technical positions, as it is easy to describe and not
something that non-cycling technical people are likely to have thought about.

--
R.

<> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements <> The tall blond one. always cause trouble." <>
[email hidden]

I would like to reprint a brief thread from 2001 in which I commented on a Jobst post...

Cary Purdy wrote: My wife bought a Z3. It looks too low to put on a trailer hitch. It has a
convertible top - so no roof rack. It doesn't look to me like a bike rack will go on the trunk. Does
anyone have any experience with this?

To which Jobst humorously (??) replied: Yes, when my wife bought her Rolls we just decided to
have her footman follow with our GMC Yukon to carry the bicycles. He's a pretty good bike
mechanic too, so she won't have to worry about fixing flats. This was a cleaner solution and
didn't mess with her car.

About which I subsequently posted: Jobst, I think a guy with a Z3 is as entitled to a helpful answer
from this group as somebody with an old beetle. Maybe I'm just oversensitive, but I think this
attempt at humor pushes "curmudgeonliness" over the edge...

Fred Roses