Improving 100 mile time

gntlmn said:

As of recently, I have begun clocking my time for 100 miles during my training rides. I'm not a racer. Every ride to me is training.

Let's just say that I have it in my thick skull that I will only consume water during the ride and no food or energy drinks. I want to improve my time in the 100. I know it is improving on it's own because I had to lay off from riding recently, but I was wondering if I could get a few tips on how to train to improve this.

I use a heart rate monitor and speedometer. It would be nice to have a power meter, but I'm going to wait on that.

A week ago, I did the 100 in 5:23:20. I put my heart rate between 124 and 135. This week, I did it in 5:14:10. My heart rate I tried to maintain between 135 and 140. I was successful for the first 60 miles or so, but then I had to concentrate. Often it dropped to the low 120's.

I realize that if I ate food while riding, I would be able to sustain higher power output. But I've set a rule for myself that I will not do that. I will only consume water. I suspect that I would be able to crack 5 hours if I used the food approach, but I don't want to go that route. Tell me I'm crazy; maybe that's true.

How do I train to continue to improve my 100 time with no food intake? Maybe you can tell me how to apportion different training rides as to the heart rate levels. My goal is modest--to break 5 hours. I have 14 minutes 10 seconds to go. What do I do?

Very impressive; assume you're riding a basically flat course. Don't know if you're counting computer (pedaling) time, or total elapsed time on the clock....or even if you stop at all.

To go without foods for 5 hours, you are no doubt an experienced rider who is efficient at conserving energy and burning fat.

Since you're so close, seems to me all you need to do is turn up the pace for the last 20 miles. Don't know what your max HR is, but you should be able to go for the last hour at 85%....unless you've run out of glycogen stores by then.

Would like to hear more about your course, gearing, cadence and position on the bike.

dhk said:

Very impressive; assume you're riding a basically flat course. Don't know if you're counting computer (pedaling) time, or total elapsed time on the clock....or even if you stop at all.

To go without foods for 5 hours, you are no doubt an experienced rider who is efficient at conserving energy and burning fat.

Since you're so close, seems to me all you need to do is turn up the pace for the last 20 miles. Don't know what your max HR is, but you should be able to go for the last hour at 85%....unless you've run out of glycogen stores by then.

Would like to hear more about your course, gearing, cadence and position on the bike.

I don't know what my max HR is either. I tried to figure out about a week ago my anaerobic threshold, which is the HR average for 8 to 10 miles TT (I think). My first 2 miles or so, I was 160-164. The next 4 miles were maybe 150-160, and then I faded badly to maybe 135 or so for the last couple of miles. The monitor does not not give the average. It just shows times above, within, and below the target range you set. So I kind of had to guess the average.

I don't think I picked a good day to test it. But I'm guessing a wide range of 145 to 155 as anaerobic threshold. I think I just need to work out more with my HR monitor to get a better idea.

I wonder if I rode maybe a double century in one shot if that would help for the 100 time. I don't know if I should train longer distance or train more intensely. My guess is probably a little of both. I don't have too much time left this summer.

The course consists of a 6 mile ride through town (traffic lights, etc) followed by a course along the highway which is 17.75 miles for each up and back lap. The road is probably 1-2% grade on the out part of this lap followed of course by a downhill of the same on the second half. I probably go between 15-21 mph on the way out and 20-26 mph on the way back. I figure if the conditions are ideal, the wind will be slightly at your back on the uphill and slightly against you on the downhill. This way it's easiest to have fairly even splits. It's just that mother nature doesn't cooperate. I like the flag at about the midpoint of this lap which gives me a perfect indicator on wind direction and speed.

My cadence is usually between 90 and 105. If it drops below 90, it seems like it is more difficult for me to maintain my heartrate in the desired range farther along in the course. If I see a low HR, I consider the cadence and usually downshift and speed up a little.

I do 5 laps and then make the trip back through town. The final time is less than 1 mile before I get home. Actually, there is a slight hill after I finish the timed section, but considering the traffic lights, I still know I'm slower than I would be if I just started where I call the laps without going through traffic. So I'm not understating the total 100 time. I'm slightly overstating it. I suspect it might make 2 minutes improvement to do laps only and no in town riding.

As for position on the bike, I don't try to be aerodynamic except that I wear riding clothes. I don't grasp the down handles. I grip in the middle of the brake handles. I don't like the comfort of the more aerodynamic pose. This would make a huge difference at 30 mph, but at my speed of slightly more than 19 mph, well, it makes some difference, but not enough to make up for the comfort I get by riding the way I do.

gntlmn said:

As of recently, I have begun clocking my time for 100 miles during my training rides. I'm not a racer. Every ride to me is training.

Let's just say that I have it in my thick skull that I will only consume water during the ride and no food or energy drinks. I want to improve my time in the 100. I know it is improving on it's own because I had to lay off from riding recently, but I was wondering if I could get a few tips on how to train to improve this.

I use a heart rate monitor and speedometer. It would be nice to have a power meter, but I'm going to wait on that.

A week ago, I did the 100 in 5:23:20. I put my heart rate between 124 and 135. This week, I did it in 5:14:10. My heart rate I tried to maintain between 135 and 140. I was successful for the first 60 miles or so, but then I had to concentrate. Often it dropped to the low 120's.

I realize that if I ate food while riding, I would be able to sustain higher power output. But I've set a rule for myself that I will not do that. I will only consume water. I suspect that I would be able to crack 5 hours if I used the food approach, but I don't want to go that route. Tell me I'm crazy; maybe that's true.

How do I train to continue to improve my 100 time with no food intake? Maybe you can tell me how to apportion different training rides as to the heart rate levels. My goal is modest--to break 5 hours. I have 14 minutes 10 seconds to go. What do I do?

First I would like to say, "I wish to hell I had your fitness levels!!" I'm hoping to complete my first century in 7 hours so to me 5:14 sounds pretty smokin'! Congratulations on your new personal best.

Second, I'd like to say that I think you are making a mistake by not taking in food & nutrients while trying to ride for that duration. The human body is a sophisticated peice of organic machinery. It needs fuel and nutrients to run efficiently, especially when being taxed. If you know that taking in power gels or food during your ride will improve your time then why not do so? It's not cheating. You only need to improve 4.7% to break 5 hours. I'm sure you could easily do that by eating during your ride.

The point is this, if you have a tool or resource available to you, whether it's a proven training technique, a massage after hard training, thinner tires, a better airodynamic position or a few power bars - even if they only help you out a few percentage points - then use them.

Note: I didn't include drafting in there because I don't know if your doing club rides or riding by yourself. The 7 hour century I'm shooting for will be by myself.

gntlmn said:

... As for position on the bike, I don't try to be aerodynamic except that I wear riding clothes. I don't grasp the down handles. I grip in the middle of the brake handles. I don't like the comfort of the more aerodynamic pose. This would make a huge difference at 30 mph, but at my speed of slightly more than 19 mph, well, it makes some difference, but not enough to make up for the comfort I get by riding the way I do.

In the Lance Armstrong Performance Program it states that for the average rider going 20 MPH, 80% of their energy output was due to wind resistance!!

Doctor Morbius said:

Note: I didn't include drafting in there because I don't know if your doing club rides or riding by yourself. The 7 hour century I'm shooting for will be by myself.

I do this 100% solo. I don't draft anyone any step of the way. It's another rule I've set for myself in addition to the no calorie consumption rule I have. If someone passes me, I stay about maybe 50 meters back to avoid a draft effect and then use the mental aspect to sustain a pace for a while. Actually, this is counterproductive in the 100 I think unless it's the final 20 miles or so because I think this is not good pace work. I think you should set your own pace. It's fun though.

If I start talking about why I don't consume calories during the ride, I think this thread will melt down. I want to stay focused on the training. I have my reasons on the caloric restriction during riding. I don't mind that this is not an acceptable racing tactic, especially in pro races. I'd be doing like the others there. But this is my own little game I'm playing, like cycling solitaire 🙂 .

gntlmn said:

I do this 100% solo. I don't draft anyone any step of the way. It's another rule I've set for myself in addition to the no calorie consumption rule I have. If someone passes me, I stay about maybe 50 meters back to avoid a draft effect and then use the mental aspect to sustain a pace for a while. Actually, this is counterproductive in the 100 I think unless it's the final 20 miles or so because I think this is not good pace work. I think you should set your own pace. It's fun though.

If I start talking about why I don't consume calories during the ride, I think this thread will melt down. I want to stay focused on the training. I have my reasons on the caloric restriction during riding. I don't mind that this is not an acceptable racing tactic, especially in pro races. I'd be doing like the others there. But this is my own little game I'm playing, like cycling solitaire 🙂 .

if you want to break your time, use aerobars to get more aerodynamic. will save you maybe 2 min an hour. i will also say that its not healthy to bike that long without eating. so regardless of "personal goals" at least be smart about it and dont destroy your body.

Doctor Morbius said:

First I would like to say, "I wish to hell I had your fitness levels!!" I'm hoping to complete my first century in 7 hours so to me 5:14 sounds pretty smokin'! Congratulations on your new personal best.

Second, I'd like to say that I think you are making a mistake by not taking in food & nutrients while trying to ride for that duration. The human body is a sophisticated peice of organic machinery. It needs fuel and nutrients to run efficiently, especially when being taxed. If you know that taking in power gels or food during your ride will improve your time then why not do so? It's not cheating. You only need to improve 4.7% to break 5 hours. I'm sure you could easily do that by eating during your ride.

The point is this, if you have a tool or resource available to you, whether it's a proven training technique, a massage after hard training, thinner tires, a better airodynamic position or a few power bars - even if they only help you out a few percentage points - then use them.

Note: I didn't include drafting in there because I don't know if your doing club rides or riding by yourself. The 7 hour century I'm shooting for will be by myself.

gntlmn: Thanks for the info. Agree you're at a high-fitness level, with a well-developed aerobic capability and great glycogen stores. I'll bet you've been at this distance riding for more than just a couple of years.

I believe "overdistance" (120-125 miles) may help to improve your speed, but don't think you need to do a double century.

Spending more time in the drops, or using aerobars, as spacefuzz suggested would certainly help shave off time. (Suspect you don't want to add aerobars though.)Comfort is important too, so maybe just use drops for a percentage of the time when you're going into a headwind, or downhills at higher speed.

dhk said:

gntlmn: Thanks for the info. Agree you're at a high-fitness level, with a well-developed aerobic capability and great glycogen stores. I'll bet you've been at this distance riding for more than just a couple of years.

I believe "overdistance" (120-125 miles) may help to improve your speed, but don't think you need to do a double century.

Spending more time in the drops, or using aerobars, as spacefuzz suggested would certainly help shave off time. (Suspect you don't want to add aerobars though.)Comfort is important too, so maybe just use drops for a percentage of the time when you're going into a headwind, or downhills at higher speed.

Actually, I am not interested in the aero bars. Anything that results in my leaning forward on my bike I am not particularly keen on doing because it just isn't comfortable. Besides, if I am really going to improve internally, this will be evident by the improved time. If I use aero bars, I won't know how much of the improvement will be the result of better aerodynamics. Since I've recently done 2 centuries and timed them, and only the day before yesterday done a double century without aero bars and timed that too, I appreciate the suggestion, but I will see if I can actually improve my prolonged horsepower rather than my aerodynamics. Then I'll know that I'm really improving my conditioning level.

I'm going to try for a triple century next June, when the sun shines longer in the day to give me light. I want to crack 18 hours. I think this time goal will be easy. The tough thing will be to complete the whole distance. If I do, and I get the hydration/food intake down, I suspect I will sub 18.

Do you have an idea on what kind of hydration I might try? I seem to have trouble eating solid foods on the go, at least with this double century I just did. I'm wondering if I should just try drinking my calories somehow.

I've always had good luck with Accelerade. Of course there are many others, and it is not too hard to make your own if you want. If you do a google on sports drinks you can find tons of info on making your own.

Sounds like you may have a little stomach tenderness if you have problems with solid food. You may have to keep the carb concentration pretty low, and you may want to test to see if you have a problem with fructose, which many people do.

If you need food, then engineered stuff may be the way to go. Power Bars were specifically invented to provide nutrition while not upsetting the stomach of endurance runners, who beat their stomachs up even more that cyclers.

I would have to say that the best way to help your times out would be to start hydrating on your rides. Quite a few tests have been run that show that on just about any ride past about 30 miles, proper hydration will extend time to exhaustion, and improve performance.

Not only that, but it will also help reduce damage in the muscles, which will help in post ride soreness and reduce recovery times, and it will help to maintain higher glycogen levels in the muscles, if not for the ride you are on, then for the next. Most any rider who is riding daily, or who rides lots of miles in a week, is constantly fighting glycogen depletion.

If you absolutely can't take in liquid on your rides, then pre-hydration; lots of water for about 24 hours before your ride is a good idea to make absolutely sure that you start off in as good a condition as possible.

Also, avoiding alcohol, or caffeine, or any other diuretics would be a good idea for you in that period.

Good Luck! We just had the Marin double century here, two guys on a tandem won it in 12 hours something. Sounds like you might be able to do that on your own!

Whit

OK, if you won't eat during the ride, have you tried plowing through a big fat hamburger or other large meal right before you leave? You may feel like a slob for the first hour or so, but you'll be on fire for the last portion of your ride.

Whitney said:

Good Luck! We just had the Marin double century here, two guys on a tandem won it in 12 hours something. Sounds like you might be able to do that on your own!

Whit

Get out of here! I can't believe I'm good enough to win a race like that. Are you sure about that time? And on a tandem? Hmmm. They must have had a lot of wind. Otherwise, I suspect they would have broken 10 hours on a tandem, maybe even getting close to 8 or 9.

Don't get me wrong. I was hydrating the whole way and did not lose body weight from dehydration. I consumed 40 oz before I left, 1 gallon while I road, and then more when I got home. This was for 200 miles. But it doesn't get very hot here. It was mid 70's F in the middle of the day.

My question is about hydration plus carb intake at the same time, all in the form of liquid. I'm guessing if the intake is very low concentration, that I will not be dehydrated from the carbohydrates. If I go with a higher concentration, it may dehydrate me. But I don't know about the numbers. It's easy to understand in generalities, but I don't know what numbers to put into that liter of water I will consume. Maybe I should go with 1/2 recommended dosage, considering I will be riding a long time. Maybe part of it is to figure first how much water you normally consume, and then to figure how much carbohydrate you will need over that distance. Then just put all the carb into the amount you expect to drink. However the concentration turns out will be fine.

WINGNUTT said:

OK, if you won't eat during the ride, have you tried plowing through a big fat hamburger or other large meal right before you leave? You may feel like a slob for the first hour or so, but you'll be on fire for the last portion of your ride.

Yeah, I did that. I ate 6 potatoes, 6 eggs with mozzarella cheese melted on it, a bunch of peanut butter, jam and
40 oz of green tea. I usually drink more before I leave, but I was about to puke from forcing all that food down and trying to leave early enough to possibly have time to finish 300 miles in one day. The 300 goal faded due to cracking, but I managed to finish the 200.

My first hour, I only did 14.3 miles, but this was because I had to finish hauling supplies on my bike (which I didn't turn out to need). After that, I averaged more than 18 for about the next 120 miles.

gntlmn said:

Yeah, I did that. I ate 6 potatoes, 6 eggs with mozzarella cheese melted on it, a bunch of peanut butter, jam and
40 oz of green tea. I usually drink more before I leave, but I was about to puke from forcing all that food down and trying to leave early enough to possibly have time to finish 300 miles in one day. The 300 goal faded due to cracking, but I managed to finish the 200.

My first hour, I only did 14.3 miles, but this was because I had to finish hauling supplies on my bike (which I didn't turn out to need). After that, I averaged more than 18 for about the next 120 miles.

gntlmn, you are the man. That is all.

WINGNUTT said:

gntlmn, you are the man. That is all.

Hmm. I seem to have endurance, but I need to work on O2 uptake because I can't go much faster at 25 miles than at 200 miles pace. I suspect a lot of high HR training is what I need. Maybe a lot of hill climbing would be good too to improve VO2 uptake. For example, if I could do 25 miles in under an hour, I wouldn't be worried much about 100 in under 5. But when I can barely do 20 in under an hour even if I only do one hour, I need to improve that to a wider margin.

Ok, I'm no expert here, and while you say you have you're reasons for avoiding eating on the bike, I don't understand why you would do that to your body. Your body needs fuel, NEEDS it. Bad things happen when you don't supply the fuel it needs. Don't get me wrong, I think what you're doing is impressive. But dang, dude!! Have you tried the gels? I have issues eating solid food and riding. If I eat something solid before a ride, I either get nauseous or cramp. Similar when I eat on the bike. I can do about half of a power bar but that's it. Gels and water work very well for me. As long as I drink plenty when I take the gel, it doesn't cause me any stomach upset. I'm betting you would make a major improvement with a little extra fuel.

Well, this is Northern Cal and you can't go ten feet outside your door without hitting a categorizable climb.

I think there was something like 14,500 feet of climbing in this one, and the toughest grade was around 11.5%, which came at about the 130 mile point.

You can read a little about it HERE if you like.

As far a stomach distress, a couple of the more common causes are too concentrated a formula, and inability to handle fructose, which is the sugar you find in fruit juices, and quite a few sports drinks.

a 6-8% solution of carbs is around the normal range for most people, and also what most sports drinks come in. If you have trouble with that, then of course you can dilute it and see if it goes down easier.

You also have to be careful with gels, because they often amount to a super-concentrated form of carb drink. Most all of them recommend drinking liquid with each shot, sometimes a Lot of liquid. Often though, they will use a more easily digestible form of sugar than the sports drinks, so you can take a little more concentrated slug of the stuff.

If you do some google searches on sports drinks, energy gels, some of the brand names, etc, you can come up with more material to read about this than you can possibly finish.

Whit

trekryder said:

Ok, I'm no expert here, and while you say you have you're reasons for avoiding eating on the bike, I don't understand why you would do that to your body. Your body needs fuel, NEEDS it. Bad things happen when you don't supply the fuel it needs. Don't get me wrong, I think what you're doing is impressive. But dang, dude!! Have you tried the gels? I have issues eating solid food and riding. If I eat something solid before a ride, I either get nauseous or cramp. Similar when I eat on the bike. I can do about half of a power bar but that's it. Gels and water work very well for me. As long as I drink plenty when I take the gel, it doesn't cause me any stomach upset. I'm betting you would make a major improvement with a little extra fuel.

How do you know you don't improve more in a year by avoiding eating on training rides, as long as you hydrate well during the ride? Consider that all those empty carbohydrate calories we are talking about consuming on the bike would instead be substituted by good food--meat, vegetables--after and before the rides. I don't have an underweight problem. I'm like most people in America. I need to lose a little more weight. Every calorie I eat on the bike has to come out of the other good food I eat otherwise.

If you allow yourself to get dehydrated, I'm pretty sure that can lead to permanenent damage to your organs. But I'm not so sure about if you let yourself get a little hungry on the bike that that will lead to anything harmful. Weight loss on me would not be harmful. I'm not to that point yet.

But if I'm just talking about the ride itself, the end result, I agree that I would do much better if I consumed an adequate supply of carbos. So I'll check into this.

Whitney said:

a 6-8% solution of carbs is around the normal range for most people, and also what most sports drinks come in. If you have trouble with that, then of course you can dilute it and see if it goes down easier.
Whit

What does this mean? Is this 6-8% by weight or 6-8% by volume? What if you just use sugar? You put 60-80 ml of sugar in each liter?

gntlmn said:

What does this mean? Is this 6-8% by weight or 6-8% by volume? What if you just use sugar? You put 60-80 ml of sugar in each liter?

Jesus, don't use table sugar!! :eek: Fructose is bad enough.