Improving 100 mile time

Doctor Morbius said:

Jesus, don't use table sugar!! :eek: Fructose is bad enough.

What's the difference? It's all empty carbohydrate calories anyway, isn't it?

gntlmn said:

How do you know you don't improve more in a year by avoiding eating on training rides, as long as you hydrate well during the ride? Consider that all those empty carbohydrate calories we are talking about consuming on the bike would instead be substituted by good food--meat, vegetables--after and before the rides. I don't have an underweight problem. I'm like most people in America. I need to lose a little more weight. Every calorie I eat on the bike has to come out of the other good food I eat otherwise.

because, as i explained to you in the other thread, if you don't take on carbs when you exercise you deplete your muscle and liver glycogen and produce less power (and thus, burn less energy). you needn't use sports drinks (although they are excellent) you could use some easily digestible solid food. i like fig rolls/newtons on the bike!

Quoted post said:

If you allow yourself to get dehydrated, I'm pretty sure that can lead to permanenent damage to your organs. But I'm not so sure about if you let yourself get a little hungry on the bike that that will lead to anything harmful. Weight loss on me would not be harmful. I'm not to that point yet.

succesfully, with several people i have got them to loose weight by upping their food intake slightly and training more

ric

Gntlmn,

You are recording very good times for the 100, as it is anything less than 6 hours is very impressive.
Why do you want to go faster ? (rhethorical question !).

I am thinking back to my old days when I raced and I used to hit the 100
in 4.30 - 4.45.
In those days, the older guys (and I'm at their age - now !) used to say :
"eat every 15 miles" and that;s what we did.
The usual staple stuff like fruit cake, wine gum (sweets), fig rolls (buscuit)
and plenty of water (liquid).
I don't know what the precise scientific basis was for consuming these
foods (RicStern is the scientist here - he might help out).
But it benefitted me.
Why not try to eating option during your ride ?

limerickman said:

Gntlmn,

You are recording very good times for the 100, as it is anything less than 6 hours is very impressive.
Why do you want to go faster ? (rhethorical question !).

I am thinking back to my old days when I raced and I used to hit the 100
in 4.30 - 4.45.
In those days, the older guys (and I'm at their age - now !) used to say :
"eat every 15 miles" and that;s what we did.
The usual staple stuff like fruit cake, wine gum (sweets), fig rolls (buscuit)
and plenty of water (liquid).
I don't know what the precise scientific basis was for consuming these
foods (RicStern is the scientist here - he might help out).
But it benefitted me.
Why not try to eating option during your ride ?

I'm a little bit limited on my food intake because I'm somewhat sensitive to wheat. Actually, it's gluten sensitivity. It won't kill me, but it doesn't do me much good, and I might end up getting sick a few days or a week later. Actually, I didn't know this until last year, and that explains why I used to always get a sore throat on very long rides or tours before and could never build up too many training miles. I don't have that problem anymore. I can wheel off several hundred miles in a week without getting that sore throat I used to get.

I used to up my carbohydrate intake when doing high miles. Let's face it, you have to eat more, and if it wasn't in the form of some kind of wheat--fig newtons (I used to eat a whole package of those at a time), spaghetti, bread, biscuits, pancakes, oatmeal cookies--that was pure coincidence. I didn't know I was harming myself by eating all that stuff, but I shouldn't even be putting it down my throat at all. Now that I haven't eaten any wheat products for quite some time, I'm sure that my bodily reaction to them would be worse now because my immune system is built up pretty strong now.

I suppose I could make some popcorn balls. Either that or just drink the calories down as I go. Potatoes are pretty hard to take along because they wouldn't keep very well. But I suppose I could leave an ice chest out there and pack those in a sealed plastic container. In fact, now that I think of it, that might be a great idea. There's my potassium as I go too. Hmmm. If I drink the calories, I won't have to worry about having to take a natural break whereas I might have to if I eat a bunch of potatoes for 18 hours. I'm still thinking about the answer to this one.

limerickman said:

In those days, the older guys (and I'm at their age - now !) used to say :
"eat every 15 miles" and that;s what we did.

i take on some carbs (mainly fluids) about once every 5 or 10-mins

Quoted post said:

The usual staple stuff like fruit cake, wine gum (sweets), fig rolls (buscuit)
and plenty of water (liquid).
I don't know what the precise scientific basis was for consuming these
foods (RicStern is the scientist here - he might help out).
But it benefitted me.
Why not try to eating option during your ride ?

apart from the water, they all contain plenty of carbs, which is what fuels your activity.

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

succesfully, with several people i have got them to loose weight by upping their food intake slightly and training more

ric

Now that I have it firmly in my head to lose some weight, I'm going to take this advice and start riding more now and skiing more this winter. I'll be eating more carbos. I think most of it will be potatoes, which are high in potassium and vitamin C.

ric_stern/RST said:

i take on some carbs (mainly fluids) about once every 5 or 10-mins

apart from the water, they all contain plenty of carbs, which is what fuels your activity.

ric

thanks Ric

gntlmn said:

What does this mean? Is this 6-8% by weight or 6-8% by volume? What if you just use sugar? You put 60-80 ml of sugar in each liter?

Believe it's by weight; means 60-80 grams of carb per kg (liter) of water. And I'd say you could use table sugar; my Gatorade powder lists sucrose as the first ingredient. I use the stuff, mainly for the electrolytes, but have to sip it slowly as the sugar seems to irritate my stomach a bit.

Cytomax is an alternate that's primarily maltodextrin starch-based. Several riders here use it and say it's better than G'ade for them....more consistent energy without stomach problems. I've got some on order now to try.

Wow, I just read this thread and I'm floored. I cannot even begin to imagine riding anything over 25 miles with NO food intake. I would never, ever make it 100 miles without something to eat. If I did it would take me all day. I accidentally did a century without food once (seat pack fell off my bike, and it had my food and money) and the last 30 miles of the ride was like the Bataan death march. My average speed was somewhere around 10mph, and there weren't even that many hills (thank god).

On my usual 70 mile weekend loop, I've started adding up my gel and power bar wrappers. For the 70 miles, I consume around 1000 calories (not counting those from the gatorade), and I'm still starving afterwards. Granted, it's hilly, rolling terrain, but still. No food for 100 miles... sounds like torture.

I just want to echo Cyclewaze view : there is no way that I would cycle for more than two hours without eating.
It would be totally inconceivable for me to even attempt 100 miles without
eating.
And I imagine it's pretty dangerous too.

limerickman said:

I just want to echo Cyclewaze view : there is no way that I would cycle for more than two hours without eating.
It would be totally inconceivable for me to even attempt 100 miles without
eating.
And I imagine it's pretty dangerous too.

i'd say that training such distances (not that they're useful to do either on a regular basis) without food, is just training yourself to be slow.

ric

limerickman said:

I just want to echo Cyclewaze view : there is no way that I would cycle for more than two hours without eating.
It would be totally inconceivable for me to even attempt 100 miles without
eating.
And I imagine it's pretty dangerous too.

On my "accidental" foodless century, I kept my wits about me buy stopping at a convenience store and swiping a handful of sugar packets. I mixed them with my 2nd water bottle to give me SOME kind of calorie supply. It wasn't much, but it kept me from having a conversation with the pavement.

limerickman said:

I am thinking back to my old days when I raced and I used to hit the 100
in 4.30 - 4.45.

I bet if you got into a peloton on a flat stage for 100 miles, and the goal of the peloton was to finish in under 4 hours, you could even now do this, if you didn't ever go to the front of the pack. What do you think?

this year the pros did Trenton (part of the wachovia cycling series) in 3:00:03. it was a 91 mile race.

From what you've described if you want to break a 5 hour century you need to start on upping your pace on shorter rides, unless you can and already do 20,40 or 60 mile rides at a higher pace say around 20-22 mph. If you are not doing these kinds of rides already then you may find it hard to accomplish it without eating on a 40 or 60 mile ride. As you up your pace and average HR your going to need more carbs than your body can give you without eating. Consuming food on a ride is as much a part of the training process as putting the miles on your legs. If you can find something you can tolerate then I would start introducing it on shorter 40 - 60 mile rides, eating at least every hour. Its very important to drink plenty with your food at the same time you eat.

davidbod said:

From what you've described if you want to break a 5 hour century you need to start on upping your pace on shorter rides, unless you can and already do 20,40 or 60 mile rides at a higher pace say around 20-22 mph. If you are not doing these kinds of rides already then you may find it hard to accomplish it without eating on a 40 or 60 mile ride. As you up your pace and average HR your going to need more carbs than your body can give you without eating. Consuming food on a ride is as much a part of the training process as putting the miles on your legs. If you can find something you can tolerate then I would start introducing it on shorter 40 - 60 mile rides, eating at least every hour. Its very important to drink plenty with your food at the same time you eat.

I've been consuming lately more carbs before training, and I'm noticing a lot more horsepower and less ache in my legs. Now let's see if I can keep raising the bar.

I have been able to sub 2 hours easily at 40 miles without eating extra carbs in the beginning. I still don't eat on rides, but if I consume a massive amount beforehand, that seems like it should carry me at least 60 miles or so. Carrying food for longer rides will happen in good time. It just takes more preparation. My diet is a little more limited than most in what I eat.