UST tire recommendations?

Python, Python, Python. I put on a mosquito when it got moist in the spring, but as soon as it dried
out somewhat, the Python went right back on. Pythons rock in all conditions, IMO.

The Crossmax, boutique as they may be, sure have been running strong for, quite literally,
thousands of miles.

Tubeless tires are different from their tubed kin. Better sidewall, a beefier bead are a few
differences.

Sorni said:

Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like to
find a fatter front tire one of these days.)

So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50 for
a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on the light side (and affordable would be nice, too 🙂

I've heard positive & negative about tubeless tires in general -- positive including lower
pressures and fewer flats; negative lousy selection, higher weight, more expense, etc. There seems
to be a truly different "feel" with tubeless -- or is it just imaginary?

Bill "if I google it I'll just get 'tubless' ;-)" S.

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on

the

Quoted message said:

light side (and affordable would be nice, too 🙂

The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles [censored] conditions very well...much
better than the tread pattern would lead you to believe. The only problem you might have with them
is AFAIK the widest they come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter"
which, to me, starts at about 2.3

cambriabike.comirc serac xc tubeless front rear tire.htmOpen ↗

The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
like to be perfectly round - giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still
isn't perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house. The roundness usually
isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any real quibbles with
Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.

If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at 35-40
psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
tubed tires.

You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big volume is the only way to go. Some folks use a
compressor, but that's like putting on pedals with ChannelLocks.

I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
equipped with it. But what do I know.

Chris

Sorni said:

Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness.

These came on my new VT1. I normally build my own wheels, but I LOVE these!

Quoted message said:

So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend?

So far I and others with the same bike have had excellent results with the Hutchinson Scorpions
that came with them. They are narrower spec-wise, but I used to ride 2.2 and 2.3's on other bikes,
and the Scorpions feel more like a 2.2. I haven actually measured them to see how true the
measurement is.

Quoted message said:

There seems to be a truly different "feel" with tubeless -- or is it just imaginary?

I think the traction and ride quality are noticibly better. Of course, this is completely
subjective. <G>

Barry

"Anthony Sloan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorni said:

Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know,

"boutique"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheels but I got a pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a big hurry, as running 'em with

tubes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like to find a

fatter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

front tire one of these days.)

So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

light side (and affordable would be nice, too 🙂

I've heard positive & negative about tubeless tires in general --

positive

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

including lower pressures and fewer flats; negative lousy selection,

higher

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weight, more expense, etc. There seems to be a truly different "feel"

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tubeless -- or is it just imaginary?

Bill "if I google it I'll just get 'tubless' ;-)" S.

Quoted message said:

Python, Python, Python. I put on a mosquito when it got moist in the spring, but as soon as it
dried out somewhat, the Python went right back on. Pythons rock in all conditions, IMO.

The Crossmax, boutique as they may be, sure have been running strong for, quite literally,
thousands of miles.

Tubeless tires are different from their tubed kin. Better sidewall, a beefier bead are a few
differences.

Thanks, Anthony. My LBS (well, it's a Performance) has 'em in stock; they'll price-match StuporGo
($28), and most important of all, of course -- the black/grey will go like a dream with my
Switchblade!!! ;-)

Bill "now to start fiddling with little valves & grommets; beats going to the gym" S.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on

the

Quoted message said:

light side (and affordable would be nice, too 🙂

The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles [censored] conditions very well...much
better than the tread pattern would lead you

to

Quoted message said:

believe. The only problem you might have with them is AFAIK the widest

they

Quoted message said:

come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter" which, to me, starts at
about 2.3

cambriabike.comirc serac xc tubeless front rear tire.htmOpen ↗

The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
like to be perfectly

round -

Quoted message said:

giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still

isn't

Quoted message said:

perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house.

The

Quoted message said:

roundness usually isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any
real quibbles with Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.

If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at

35-40

Quoted message said:

psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
tubed tires.

You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big

volume

Quoted message said:

is the only way to go. Some folks use a compressor, but that's like

putting

Quoted message said:

on pedals with ChannelLocks.

I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
equipped with it. But what do I know.

Thanks, Chris. I think I'll give the Pythons a spin first; then maybe try the Seracs (I've been
meaning to check out their regular tires, too)...

Bill "destined to stay w/skinny tires a while longer, apparently" S.

Sorni said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on

the

Quoted message said:

light side (and affordable would be nice, too 🙂

The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles [censored] conditions very well...much
better than the tread pattern would lead you

to

Quoted message said:

believe. The only problem you might have with them is AFAIK the widest

they

Quoted message said:

come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter" which, to me, starts at
about 2.3

cambriabike.comirc serac xc tubeless front rear tire.htmOpen ↗

The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
like to be perfectly

round -

Quoted message said:

giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still

isn't

Quoted message said:

perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house.

The

Quoted message said:

roundness usually isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any
real quibbles with Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.

If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at

35-40

Quoted message said:

psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
tubed tires.

You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big

volume

Quoted message said:

is the only way to go. Some folks use a compressor, but that's like

putting

Quoted message said:

on pedals with ChannelLocks.

I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
equipped with it. But what do I know.

Thanks, Chris. I think I'll give the Pythons a spin first; then maybe try the Seracs (I've been
meaning to check out their regular tires, too)...

Bill "destined to stay w/skinny tires a while longer, apparently" S.

The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.

When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the bead,
and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate it up to
55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and then take it
down to the desired pressure.

Unbeknownst to me, one of the mechanics at the shop put in some True Goo tubelss tire sealant. This
happened right as I swapped all of the parts from the NRS to the Blur. I couldn' figure out why
moving to a new frame prevented air from bleeeding from the tires. ;*) I normally eschew such
sliminess, but it sure did work well...

A

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So who's got experience with UST's, and what do you recommend? I don't really want to spend $50
for a 900-gram tire, BTW; prefer to keep 'em on

the

Quoted message said:

light side (and affordable would be nice, too 🙂

The IRC Serac is very fast, pretty light for UST, and handles [censored] conditions very well...much
better than the tread pattern would lead you

to

Quoted message said:

believe. The only problem you might have with them is AFAIK the widest

they

Quoted message said:

come is 2.1, and you said you were looking for something "a little fatter" which, to me, starts at
about 2.3

cambriabike.comirc serac xc tubeless front rear tire.htmOpen ↗

The post above me recommends Hutchy Pythons. I think that's a real good tire - though it sucks
horribly in sloppy conditions - but I have had bad luck in general with Hutchy tires. They don't
like to be perfectly

round -

Quoted message said:

giving you a little bump to one side that, while imperceptible, still

isn't

Quoted message said:

perfect - and they lose quite a bit of air while sitting in the house.

The

Quoted message said:

roundness usually isn't noticable, and I check pressure before every ride, so I don't have any
real quibbles with Hutchy. They just haven't been perfect.

If you pinch flat a lot of tubes, hate buying tubes, or like to run at

35-40

Quoted message said:

psi, tubeless will rule for you. If you want to believe Zap and RC, they also roll faster than
tubed tires.

You're gonna want a pump that moves tons of air - getting the bead to seat when the tire is
initially installed can sometimes be a pain, and big

volume

Quoted message said:

is the only way to go. Some folks use a compressor, but that's like

putting

Quoted message said:

on pedals with ChannelLocks.

I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
equipped with it. But what do I know.

Chris

I run the tubed version of the Serac and it is absolutely the BEST XC tire I've ever used. With it's
pinch flat resistant casing I get all the advantage of running low pressure without the other
hassles of tubeless. But the tread pattern hooks up great and works in nearly all conditions but
extremely muddy which I try to avoid due to trail damage.

Mike - I'll second Chris's recommendation.

Hello; you'll probably remember me from such posts as "I love tubeless" and "Did I happen to mention
I love tubeless?" I'm to tubeless as Wheeler is to SS.

I currently have Mosquitoes on mine. Amazing grip for its size, those Mosquitoes (I bought a few
when Supergo was selling them for $16). Those
1.85s sure feel a lot bigger than they are.

Panaracers are good too - but I like the traction of the Huchinsons better.

Quoted message said:

I think tubeless is fricking awesome, and fully expect that in a few years nearly all MTBs will be
equipped with it. But what do I know.

My sentiments exactly.

"Anthony Sloan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.

When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
bead, and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate it
up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and then
take it down to the desired pressure.

The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even if
it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and USTs can
be a bat rastard to seat in the first place.

Chris

Co2 seems to seat the bead easily, but forget it with a bike pump.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anthony Sloan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.

When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
bead, and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate
it up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and
then take it down to the desired pressure.

The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even if
it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and USTs
can be a bat rastard

to

Quoted message said:

seat in the first place.

Chris

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like
to find a fatter front tire one of these days.)

You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless MTB tires.

JD

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know,

"boutique"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wheels but I got a pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a big hurry, as running 'em with

tubes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like to find a

fatter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

front tire one of these days.)

You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless

MTB tires.

See, Crazy, WebTV *CAN* quote text!!!

Bill "thought you bought a real 'puter, Freakshow" S.

"Derral" <[email hidden]> top-posted in message "]news:[email hidden],
forcing me to cut 'n paste thusly:

Quoted message said:

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anthony Sloan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.

When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
bead, and then make sure you hold the

wheel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate it up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at
all of the pops as the tire settles into the

rim)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and then take it down to the desired pressure.

The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even
if it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and
USTs can be a bat rastard to seat in the first place.

Quoted message said:

Co2 seems to seat the bead easily, but forget it with a bike pump.

Well, after saying I wasn't in any hurry, I bought & installed a pair o' 'thons within an hour of
posting. (Can you say, "O-C-D"?!?)

I followed the directions that came with the wheels (soapy water on inside of rims); I think
slipperying-up the bead as Anthony suggests would have worked better/easier. Had to get a tad
medieval on their (carc)asses, but got 'em on eventually.

Pumped them up to 4 bar (only gentle popping was heard throughout the land) -- let all air out --
then back up to 2. (I run regular tubes @ ~3 bar -- what is that, like 35-40 psi?) Anyway, they SEEM
to be seated properly; will try to remember to double-check before using on trails...

Pythons are very different tread-type than "full knobbies" I'm used to (to which I'm used???); do
you run them both in the > direction, Anthony? I'm tempted to turn the front one around...and yes,
just by reversing the skewer at this point! 🙂

Bill "God help me with first flat...in the cold...on a night ride" S.

JD said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like
to find a fatter front tire one of these days.)

You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless MTB tires.

JD

Sounz liyke anti-hype tew meee.

Tubeless works really well for me, and the Crossmax wheels have taken an absolute beating and held
up quite well.

But, you already know that.

Here.

You can have your pot stirrer back now.

A

--
My hands are full of thorns but I can't quit groping for the rose.

I've never had a problem seating a UST tire with a bike pump.

A

Derral said:

Co2 seems to seat the bead easily, but forget it with a bike pump.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Anthony Sloan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Pythons will suprise you in that they really do feel larger.

When mounting a new tire, I slosh a diluted solution of water and dishwashing soap around the
bead, and then make sure you hold the wheel up off of the floor until everything seats. Inflate
it up to 55-60 psi (have fun flinching at all of the pops as the tire settles into the rim) and
then take it down to the desired pressure.

The part about getting the tire up off the floor is a good point. The wheels own weight - even if
it's on it's side and is just resting to one side - can get that bead in a bit crooked, and USTs
can be a bat rastard

to

Quoted message said:

seat in the first place.

Chris

I have been running Continental Vertical Pro 2.3 UST front and rear for about a full season now-

Here's my take on them:

- My first impression was that I really noticed the increased feedback you get from the UST
system....this led me to say " it's like taking off the condom!...heh"

-As far as the tire goes, I immediately noticed after really railing some fast, off-camber
singletrack that the increase in volume(2.3) made the tires vulnerable to folding when really
torqueing on the bike. This may also be due to the very fine line of running too little air in the
tires. They perform great when not doing laterally aggressive or side to side torquey movements on
the bike. They hook up better than average on most climbs.

-I have found the Hutchis to be very finicky and high maintenance. I am constantly putting air in
before rides, and depressuring for the descents-and sometimes wondering 'did I take too much out?'
.... I also had to purchase a floor pump due to convenience, and going through 3 UST stems at 10
bucks a pop. They constantly lose air.

-The Vertical Pro 2.3 is a front tire(even though Conti says it can be used for either). I have
refrained from any sort of pavement climbs to save rear tread, but it wears out pretty fast
none the less.

-Final Thought-

Good all around front tire. Poor rear tire.

Makes my bike look "gnarly" according to people I rode with yesterday.

Also, if you are running UST try not to use your hand pump on the system or you could find yourself
buying a new stem(s) soon. Hope this helped....good luck!

Edwards

Anthony Sloan <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

JD said:

"Sorni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Having recently splurged on a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's (I know, "boutique" wheels but I got a
pretty good deal), I'm tempted to take advantage of their UST tubelessness...uh, ness. (Not in a
big hurry, as running 'em with tubes and Mythos 2.1's is working fine for now, although I'd like
to find a fatter front tire one of these days.)

You bought into hype and crappy-fab wheels. There are no good tubeless MTB tires.

JD

Sounz liyke anti-hype tew meee.

Tubeless works really well for me, and the Crossmax wheels have taken an absolute beating and held
up quite well.

But, you already know that.

Here.

You can have your pot stirrer back now.

Thanks, I saw some [censored] stuck to the side that needs to be stirred into the rest of the mess.

You call it like you see it and I shall as I do.

JD

JD said:

You call it like you see it and I shall as I do.

JD

Yepper.

Tell us again how many miles you have put on a set of tubeless wheels/tires?

?

ANSWER THE QUESTION, CLAIRE!!!!!

;*)

A

From: Anthony Sloan <[email hidden]> Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike Subject: Re: UST tire
recommendations? Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 17:25:30 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews,
supernews.comsupernews.comOpen ↗ Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

JD said:

You call it like you see it and I shall as I do.

JD

Yepper.

Tell us again how many miles you have put on a set of tubeless wheels/tires?

Well now, how the hell would I know how many miles? I don't use a "computer" or other gimmicky [censored]
on my bikes. Anyone who ever reads this NG knows that.

I did use a set for two weeks as a demo, using Hutchinson Pythons, as well as Michelins (I think, it
was such a forgettable experience). The tires selection is still [censored] compared to tube tires. I
flatted once and it was a pain in the ass to fix, even after the Mavic people had given a full
instruction course to the OTE staff that I also attended.

The wheels sucked, plain and simple. The spokes had to be retensioned twice in that period. [censored]
wheelbuilds are [censored] and good handbuilt wheels can't be beat by gimmicky [censored]. This was especially
frightening since I was taking it easy on the wheelset (I didn't want to feel obligated to owing for
something I broke and didn't like) by riding them mostly in the Bookcliffs.

There, [censored] is [censored] to me. Gain about 100 lbs, ride some technical, then come back and tell us how
great that lightweight gimmick junk is.

JD you owe me $1