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"Dave H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_Espada_05

Quoted message said:

Dave

Too bad they didn't exhibit the model with the funky fork. In a single tube
in line with the tire, the fork followed the trailing edge of the front
wheel down from the headset to the level of the wheel axle. The fork blades
then went horizontally forward to attach the front wheel.

Quite ingenious way to minimize frontal area of the fork.

Dave H said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_Espada_05

More like an icon of poor taste.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave H said:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_Espada_05

Quoted message said:

More like an icon of poor taste.

I suppose you are into the "double triangle" round tube method of making
bikes?
Dave

Dave H said:

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave H wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_Espada_05

Quoted message said:

More like an icon of poor taste.

I suppose you are into the "double triangle" round tube method of making
bikes?

Yes, I think a good modern road bike is a beautiful thing. But it's not
the Espada's shape that offends my eye as much as the paint job, and
particularly the "Miguel Indurain" typeset which totally belies
Indurain's mellowness and modesty. I can't help thinking of the
excessive "sport stripes" and huge badges that came on cars from the
late '80s and early '90s.

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
background of:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue -
http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Atlanta/ACI95_35.jpg (not Colinelli's
'mixte' - http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Boardman/WITT69.jpg) is
still one of my favorites.

Mike G.
-

------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gladu, Cycling Photojournalist, Infinite HangTime Photography
Honda '82 CB900F, '84 XR200R, '70/'71/'80/'81/'82/'83 C70 Passport
Honda '86 VT500C, '97 Dream 50, Husqvarna '84 510TE, BMW '74 R60/5
Passport/C70 info: http://www.velodrome.com/HondaC70/HondaC70.html
==================================================================

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
background of:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

Quoted message said:

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue -
http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Atlanta/ACI95_35.jpg (not Colinelli's
'mixte' - http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Boardman/WITT69.jpg) is
still one of my favorites.

Mike G.

Maybe and I am not TOTALLY sure, but I think those "funny bikes" were all
built by Moser himself, I know his hour record bike was. Maybe the display
in the background if of Moser when he actually roide Pinarellos?
http://www.damonrinard.com/photos/moser84.jpg

Dave

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Mike Gladu) said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
background of:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue -
http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Atlanta/ACI95_35.jpg

Hey, their feet are all out of synch - no wonder they only got a fourth
out of it (heh). You've gotta give Pinerello credit for trying some
innovative designs to improve aerodynamics, even though the designs aren't
always the most pleasing aesthetically.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
background of:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29". Moser is a pretty
tall guy and there is no seatpost extending out from the frame and the seat
isn't positioned at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is a
26". You can see in the picture that the rear is considerably larger.
Possibly 39".

I tried to Google for an image if the Pinarello Epee with the wild fork, but
only came up with a cyclingnews.com text reference.

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

BTW - the basic Olympic track Espada in Squadra Azurri blue -
http://users.htcomp.net/gladu/images/Atlanta/ACI95_35.jpg is
still one of my favorites.

http://www.cycle24.de/Detailed/471.html

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carl Sundquist said:

"Mike Gladu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

How cruel of Maloney to omit the Moser 29" rear wheel TT bike in the
background of:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=photos/2004/tech/features/pinarello/CN-
Giro-Pin_3_Cime_01

IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29". Moser is a pretty
tall guy and there is no seatpost extending out from the frame and the seat
isn't positioned at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is a
26". You can see in the picture that the rear is considerably larger.
Possibly 39".

Did he actually set the record on that bike? Every picture I've seen of
him that is described as being of the record run shows a bike with a
smaller back wheel. I have seen a picture of him on a bike that I remember
looks a lot like the one you're describing (the one in the background of
the picture). On this chart, it lists the equipment used as being "Ambrosio
discs, 66/71cm", which is 26" and about 28".
<http://www.bikecult.com/bikecultbook/sports_recordsHour.html>

Interesting to note the crank lengths used: Moser, Merckx and Obree on
175s, Boardman on 170s, Rominger on 172.5s and Indurain on 190s!

Here's some shots from the (or one of the) record run:
<http://ida.physik.uni-siegen.de/menn/moser.htm>

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

IIRC, that rear wheel is substantially larger than 29". Moser is a

pretty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tall guy and there is no seatpost extending out from the frame and the

seat

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

isn't positioned at the top of the arc for the wheel. The front wheel is

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

26". You can see in the picture that the rear is considerably larger.
Possibly 39".

Did he actually set the record on that bike? Every picture I've seen of
him that is described as being of the record run shows a bike with a
smaller back wheel. I have seen a picture of him on a bike that I remember
looks a lot like the one you're describing (the one in the background of
the picture). On this chart, it lists the equipment used as being

"Ambrosio

Quoted message said:

discs, 66/71cm", which is 26" and about 28".
<http://www.bikecult.com/bikecultbook/sports_recordsHour.html>

Interesting to note the crank lengths used: Moser, Merckx and Obree on
175s, Boardman on 170s, Rominger on 172.5s and Indurain on 190s!

Here's some shots from the (or one of the) record run:
<http://ida.physik.uni-siegen.de/menn/moser.htm>

About the same time the UCI decided to do away with the pro/amateur
classification, they also did away with numerous aspects of UCI recognized
world records. There were indoor, outdoor, high altitude and low altitude
records for each distance. There were even standing and flying start records
for many distances, too. We're talking 200M, 500M, 1000M, 4000M, 5000M,
10.000M, 20.000M and the hour. Then double all those records for the
pro/amateur categories. (Substitute 2000M for junior women and 3000M for
women and junior men for the 4000M & 5000M records for men). Quantitatively,
it was almost as bad as US national champion jerseys.

Unfortunately for the record keepers, about the time the UCI consolidated or
eliminated the recognition of many records, along came Masters and their age
groups to fill up the record books again.

Moser's Big Wheel bike was built for the indoor record. He rode it in
Stuttgart (1988, I believe), but I don't recall how he fared.

The pictures on the website are from his original record(s) in Mexico City,
January 1984.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carl Sundquist said:

About the same time the UCI decided to do away with the pro/amateur
classification, they also did away with numerous aspects of UCI recognized
world records. There were indoor, outdoor, high altitude and low altitude
records for each distance. There were even standing and flying start records
for many distances, too. We're talking 200M, 500M, 1000M, 4000M, 5000M,
10.000M, 20.000M and the hour. Then double all those records for the
pro/amateur categories. (Substitute 2000M for junior women and 3000M for
women and junior men for the 4000M & 5000M records for men). Quantitatively,
it was almost as bad as US national champion jerseys.

Unfortunately for the record keepers, about the time the UCI consolidated or
eliminated the recognition of many records, along came Masters and their age
groups to fill up the record books again.

Moser's Big Wheel bike was built for the indoor record. He rode it in
Stuttgart (1988, I believe), but I don't recall how he fared.

The pictures on the website are from his original record(s) in Mexico City,
January 1984.

You're right, I had forgotten about the other records that those guys
tried for. I'd assumed it was for his original Mexico City Hour record
rides.

One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were obviously
custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made. Can't have been
cheap...

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from the
Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
jersey sales.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:YOURhoward->

Quoted message said:

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from

the

Quoted message said:

Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
jersey sales.

If you are talking about anyone buying a Masters World Championship Jersey,
that is something that Voler has never released to the general public,
unlike the makers of the Elite Rainbow jersey.

Dave

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were obviously
custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made. Can't have

been

Quoted message said:

cheap...

Back in the 70's, there were probably well in excess of 25 different
manufacturers of tubulars worldwide, some large like Clement, some very
small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not that
uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that followed
the sixes (back in the days when real racers used shellac as the adhesive)
and replaced the tread on the old casing on tires as they wore down.

As long as the manufacturer had a drum the appropriate size, building a tire
to a given diameter was no big deal.

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

One other thought on that Big Wheel bike: the tires were obviously
custom made. I wonder who made them and how many they made. Can't have

been

Quoted message said:

cheap...

Handmade sewups were common back then and I don't think it would be much
trouble to create some one-off sizes or a small run of oddball sizes for the
top pros and record attempts. It is not as if they use molds or anything
that locks them in to a particular size.

Quoted message said:

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from

the

Quoted message said:

Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
jersey sales.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave H said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:YOURhoward->

Quoted message said:

Whoever has the contract for the UCI Masters Championships must be
thrilled: they can probably show a profit for the entire year just from

the

Quoted message said:

Masters road and track worlds jersey sales. Then add in the "participant"
jersey sales.

If you are talking about anyone buying a Masters World Championship Jersey,
that is something that Voler has never released to the general public,
unlike the makers of the Elite Rainbow jersey.

Dave

No, it was just a little crack at the number of Master's categories.
Since there's a lot of categories, there's going to be a lot of jerseys to
be given to the winners, and the UCI has to buy those jerseys. I rode by
three "Elite World Champions" yesterday (heh).

--
tanx,
Howard

"Copper will never be gold"
Shellac

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Carl Sundquist said:

small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not that
uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that followed

Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand rather than in
Italy. But this is progress.

"Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that

followed

Quoted message said:

Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand rather than in
Italy. But this is progress.

Silk's better in Thailand
Dave

"Stewart Fleming" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

small. I wouldn't be surprised if some bike shops in France and Italy
manufactured their own tires. Needless to say, handmade tires were not

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

uncommon. From what I've heard, there were even 'specialists' that

followed

Quoted message said:

Vittoria tubulars are still handmade. Only in Thailand rather than in
Italy.

I strongly suspect that the same factory in Thailand is producing tubulars
for Vittoria, Clement, and numerous 'house' brands, such as Oschner.