durable rim suggestions

winter-<< I want to reuse the Phil Wood freewheel hub
and have another durable wheel built.
The old wheel was a Mavic MA40 36h with straight 14 gauge spokes. I
weigh 210 lbs. and ride on smooth and rough pavement. Any suggestions
for a good rim to use? Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro? >><BR><BR>

Velocity Fusion, Deep V or Razor
Mavic CXP-33
Torelli Master or Expert

Stay away from the MA-3. We just had another one we built pull the eyelets out.
About a dozen so far.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

After 9 years of trouble free service, the rear rim on my bike cracked
at one of the spoke holes. I want to reuse the Phil Wood freewheel hub
and have another durable wheel built.
The old wheel was a Mavic MA40 36h with straight 14 gauge spokes. I
weigh 210 lbs. and ride on smooth and rough pavement. Any suggestions
for a good rim to use? Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro?
Bontrager Maverick? Sun CR-18?

Thanks,
Benny

If you use the Torelli Master or the Sun CR-18, you can probably reuse
your old spokes, since those rims have the same or nearly the same ERD
as the MA40. (I'm going on the assumption that the MA40 has the same
ERD as the MA2; you should probably double check).

I can't speak about the Torelli Master except that the pair I bought
recently look very well made. I've read reports that you practically
have to crowbar tires onto the rim, but I didn't find that to be the
case with Avocet and Panaracer Pasela tires (I did use a thin rim
strip however).

I've used CR-18s for years and am very pleased with their price, their
lack of sidewall machining and their durability. They're often used by
touring cyclists. They're quite a bit heavier than the Open Pro or
the Master, though.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

winter-<< I want to reuse the Phil Wood freewheel hub
and have another durable wheel built.
The old wheel was a Mavic MA40 36h with straight 14 gauge spokes. I
weigh 210 lbs. and ride on smooth and rough pavement. Any suggestions
for a good rim to use? Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro? >><BR><BR>

Velocity Fusion, Deep V or Razor
Mavic CXP-33
Torelli Master or Expert

Stay away from the MA-3. We just had another one we built pull the eyelets

out.

Quoted message said:

About a dozen so far.

I hope you complained to Mavic. Maybe they will bring back the superior
MA-2.
-----------------
Alex

Quoted message said:

After 9 years of trouble free service, the rear rim on my bike cracked
at one of the spoke holes. I want to reuse the Phil Wood freewheel hub
and have another durable wheel built.
The old wheel was a Mavic MA40 36h with straight 14 gauge spokes. I
weigh 210 lbs. and ride on smooth and rough pavement. Any suggestions
for a good rim to use? Torelli Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro?
Bontrager Maverick? Sun CR-18?

Open Pro has sockets at the spoke holes that enables each spoke to pull on
more than just the inner wall. So it's better than many other rims in
that respect, less likely to crack at the holes. That's not to say it's
strong enough for you altogether (I would think so but it depends how
rough the "rough" is).

~PB

[email hidden] (Gary Young) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

I can't speak about the Torelli Master except that the pair I bought
recently look very well made. I've read reports that you practically
have to crowbar tires onto the rim, but I didn't find that to be the
case with Avocet and Panaracer Pasela tires (I did use a thin rim
strip however).

I think the issue here is how wide are your tires? If you're planning
on using tires that actual measure 18, 19, 20mm, even 21mm wide, then
yes, you may need a *crowbar* to mount these tires. I too use Avocet
tires, but I'm using the 700x25 carbon 12 and 700x28 fasgrip tires
(which actually measure between 24-26mm wide). Mounting tires is fast
and easy.....

adr-<< I hope you complained to Mavic. Maybe they will bring back the superior
MA-2. >><BR><BR>

After about 8, we still got the 'really, that sure is unusual' standard
response.

BUT they took all our inventory of MA-3 back. Doubt the MA-2 will come back.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Gary Young" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I've used CR-18s for years and am very pleased with their price, their
lack of sidewall machining and their durability. They're often used by
touring cyclists. They're quite a bit heavier than the Open Pro or
the Master, though.

I went with a CR-18 for my fixed gear rear wheel, since I weigh 235 and FG
rears take a bit of a beating. After several years and ~10K miles it's still
going strong.

On 23 Jun 2004 12:29:07 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

Velocity Fusion, Deep V or Razor
Mavic CXP-33
Torelli Master or Expert

Thanks. What about the Velocity Aerohead and Aerohead OC? I would like
to have a slightly lighter wheel, but not at the cost of durability.

Anyone know of a good wheelbuilder in Georgia? The local guys came up
in the days of designer wheels and don't really have the skills.

Benny

winter<< Thanks. What about the Velocity Aerohead and Aerohead OC? I would like
to have a slightly lighter wheel, but not at the cost of durability. >><BR><BR>

No such thing as a free lunch. I think you are a bit heavy for an Aerohead on
the rear.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 25 Jun 2004 12:58:28 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

winter<< Thanks. What about the Velocity Aerohead and Aerohead OC? I would like
to have a slightly lighter wheel, but not at the cost of durability. >><BR><BR>

No such thing as a free lunch. I think you are a bit heavy for an Aerohead on
the rear.

I weigh ~200 lbs and run Aerohead rims 32 hole with 15/16 spokes and
they are fine. I built a set of tandem wheels on an Aerohead OC rear,
36 holes x 14/15 ga on 130 spaced hubs. The tandem team and bike ~280
lbs. The owner reports the wheelset to be stable and hasn't touched
them with a spoke wrench yet.

Paul-<< I weigh ~200 lbs and run Aerohead rims 32 hole with 15/16 spokes and
they are fine. I built a set of tandem wheels on an Aerohead OC rear,
36 holes x 14/15 ga on 130 spaced hubs. The tandem team and bike ~280
lbs. The owner reports the wheelset to be stable and hasn't touched
them with a spoke wrench yet. >><BR><BR>

Fine and dandy. Why try to save 40 grams on a package that weighs 220 to 280
pounds??

As a wheelbuilder that must stand behind every wheel I build, I say Aeroheads
for a .1 of a ton rider is foolish and on a tandem ridiculous.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 26 Jun 2004 12:59:06 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

Paul-<< I weigh ~200 lbs and run Aerohead rims 32 hole with 15/16 spokes and
they are fine. I built a set of tandem wheels on an Aerohead OC rear,
36 holes x 14/15 ga on 130 spaced hubs. The tandem team and bike ~280
lbs. The owner reports the wheelset to be stable and hasn't touched
them with a spoke wrench yet. >><BR><BR>

Fine and dandy. Why try to save 40 grams on a package that weighs 220 to 280
pounds??

As a wheelbuilder that must stand behind every wheel I build, I say Aeroheads
for a .1 of a ton rider is foolish and on a tandem ridiculous.

There is no reason not to use 15/16 ga spokes on a wheel vs the 14/15.
The spokes dont break or wear out. I was using 28 hole wheelsets with
14/15 ga. Prebuilt wheels like Cane Creek, Helium, Velomax, American
Classic, and others still use only 28 holes, or less.

The tandem wheel was what the owner wanted and is a weak choice.
Originally, they had Ksyriums that kept failing. Additionally, they
insist on 700x23 Michelin Pro Race tires, another very poor choice.
The tandem is a Cafee Dragonfly and weight is everything.

Paul Kopit said:

The tandem wheel was what the owner wanted and is a weak choice.
Originally, they had Ksyriums that kept failing. Additionally, they
insist on 700x23 Michelin Pro Race tires, another very poor choice.
The tandem is a Cafee Dragonfly and weight is everything.

Obviously they had very different priorities than mine. I'm looking
for a durable trouble free wheelset built on my existing Phil Wood 36h
hubs. The MA-40 rims gave me 9 good years (about 14,000 miles) but I
don't want another hard anodized rim. If the MA-2 were still in
production, I'd have no decision to make. The best I can tell from the
reseach I've done is that the Torelli Master is the closest I can get
to the MA-2.
At 210 lbs, I'm not going to get too silly about grams, but I would
prefer a wheel slightly lighter than what I've had, definitely not
heavier. How much lighter is a 36 spoke wheel using 14/15 db spokes
vs. the straight 14 spokes I has before? How much lighter for 15/16?

Benny

paul-<< There is no reason not to use 15/16 ga spokes on a wheel vs the 14/15.
The spokes dont break or wear out. >><BR><BR>

BUT they support the rim. There is no reason to NOT use 14/15 spokes vs 15/16.

But like I said, add 100 grams to a rear wheel for a 200 pound rider and buy a
little durability. Would you use a frameset that was 'just strong enough' for
'most situations? or a pedal or a crankset?
People talk about durability all the time about everything but wheels, where
they state theirs are where they saved the weight. Makes no sense to me. 100
grams isn't going to affect anybody's performance BUT a wacked wheel out by
east jesus , when ya gotta be recued, will.

As for the tandem, I would not build the wheel, period. They would have to go
somewhere else for a rear Aerohead wheel for a tandem. WE gotta stand behind
the things we sell. If the customer is making the mistake, and it goes to hell,
the LBS still loses for selling it to them.

Weight is NOT everything, if the stinking thing strands the customer. If you
build that wheel you are not doing your JOB educating the customer, but I know
you aren't in the bike biz.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Benny-<< I'm not going to get too silly about grams, but I would
prefer a wheel slightly lighter than what I've had, definitely not
heavier. How much lighter is a 36 spoke wheel using 14/15 db spokes
vs. the straight 14 spokes I has before? How much lighter for 15/16?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

No such thing as a free lunch. 15/16 spokes are about 40 grams lighter BUT make
for a less strong wheel, all else being equal. 14/15 are the best combo of
strength and durability.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

On 28 Jun 2004 12:55:49 GMT, [email hidden] (Qui si parla

Campagnolo ) said:

As for the tandem, I would not build the wheel, period. They would have to go
somewhere else for a rear Aerohead wheel for a tandem. WE gotta stand behind
the things we sell. If the customer is making the mistake, and it goes to hell,
the LBS still loses for selling it to them.

Weight is NOT everything, if the stinking thing strands the customer. If you
build that wheel you are not doing your JOB educating the customer, but I know
you aren't in the bike biz.

Butted spokes are the way to go. The spokes do support the wheel.
Each 15/16 ga spoke has the same tension as a 14/15 ga spoke. The
thinner spoke is justified the same way that a 14/15 ga is more
durable than a straight 14 ga.

You can't tell a weight weenie anything.

I'm glad I don't have to make a living in the bicycle business but I
have been in the Nutritional Supplement business for 30 years. You
can't tell a supplement fanatic anything either. They just don't want
the facts.

Paul-<< The
thinner spoke is justified the same way that a 14/15 ga is more
durable than a straight 14 ga. >><BR><BR>

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What advantage does a 15/16 have
over a 14/15??

<Paul< You can't tell a weight weenie anything. >><BR><BR>

We wouldn't build that wheel.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What advantage does a 15/16

have

Quoted message said:

over a 14/15??

<Paul< You can't tell a weight weenie anything. >><BR><BR>

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds good
enough to me.

Andrew Lee said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What advantage does a
15/16 have over a 14/15??

<Paul< You can't tell a weight weenie anything. >><BR><BR>

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.

You were misled.

Bill "not even slightly original" S.