durable rim suggestions

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.

Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum that says when
someone accuses someone else of being a Nazi, the debate is over?
Except that in our case, the invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur
intended) . . . 😉

Any OCR is going to outlast a std rim - what about Ritchey's Zero hubs
and rims for keeping things evenly tensioned?

MH

--

mfhor said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.

Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum that says when
someone accuses someone else of being a Nazi, the debate is over?
Except that in our case, the invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur
intended) . . . 😉

You quote no one, reply under my post (but delete what I had written), and
mix threads a bit. I can only conclude...

You're a Nazi.

Bill "we're all goin' to heil" S.

S o r n i said:

mfhor said:

Quoted message said:

> We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds
good enough to me.

Is there a bike forum equivalent to that usenet dictum that says when
someone accuses someone else of being a Nazi, the debate is over?
Except that in our case, the invoked name is Jobst (no racial slur
intended) . . . 😉

You quote no one, reply under my post (but delete what I had written), and
mix threads a bit. I can only conclude...

You're a Nazi.

You Goodwin'd the wrong thread!!! D'Oh!

Quoted message said:

Bill "we're all goin' to heil" S.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

I placed an inquiry with Joe Young (Youngwheels.com) about light,
durable wheels that would support my weight (200 lb) and riding (mostly
smooth roads) and received a great response. Many of you will recognize
Joe as one of the premier wheel builders in the US. The wheels he
recommends are about twice that of my current set (Wheelsmith built
Mavics w/DA hubs, double-butted spokes), but he claims the DT parts are
superior. I thought some of you might be interested in his response.

Hi Jesse,

My experience has been the Velocity rims have less quality metal than
the Mavic rims. I am not able to use as much tension with Velocity as
Mavic. I prefer the new DT RR 1.1 to Velocit or Mavic. The RR 1.1 rims
have a slightly higher profile, are lighter (415 grams) and have higher
quality metal.

For your size and riding preferences I would recommend my lightest
design (lighter and faster than Krysium) that would hold up to lots of
miles with little or no service needed.

My classic design emphasizes low weight on the out side diameter of the
wheel where less weight is most meaningful. Less weight here means
better acceleration and climbing efficiency. The "aero" look wheels have
more weight on the outside diameter to support the lower spoke count.
This is OK for straight line time trail situations where acceleration
and climbing is not and issue but not as fast in most race and training
situations. Also if you read the fine print in wheel wind tunnel tests
they state that there is little or no aero effect at speeds under 30
MPH. My wheel designs are also easier to repair should an accident, like
a pedal in the wheel, require spoke replacement.

For hubs I recommend DT Hugi 240 (96 grams front 235 grams rear) DT Hubs
are Swiss made with all cartridge bearings and labaynth seals to keep
out water and dirt.They roll much faster than cone and loose ball
bearing hubs like Shimano and Campagnolo and are much easier to service.
DT hubs have a special rear flange design for 9/10 speed drive systems
that reduces the tension difference between the drive and non drive
spokes that are found in conventional hubs. This tension difference
reduces stability in the wheel reducing performance and causing the
wheel to need re-tension and truing on a regular basis.

Second choice hub would be DT Onyx. Built with the same quality as the
240S the onyx has a standard pawl and spring drive system and steel axle
but with cartridge bearings and seals. The drive and axle adds a bit of
weight but costs less. I find this hub to be superior to the Dura Ace
and actually costs less.

DT RR 1.1 rims are the lightest quality rims (420 grams). They have
single eyelets, are welded for a smooth braking surface and have
dependable availability.

For spokes I like the new DT Swiss Super Competition 2.0/1.7/1.8 gage
triple butted. The 2.0 GA at the hub flange for strength,1.7 in the
center for light weight and less wind up and 1.8 at the nipple for less
weight and strength . This spoke is 30% lighter than the standard
Competition but doesn't wind up as bad as the Revolution 14/15/14. I
have found I can't get adequate tension with the Revolution which
produces a wimpy wheel. Available in black only with Alloy nipples any
color. 3X cross rear and 2X front. I find using more durable and
slightly heavier spokes gives the wheel more stability and longevity.
Power transfer from pedal to ground is more efficient which off sets any
weight gain several fold. .

Second choice spoke is the DT Competition 2.0X1.8X2.0 double butted.
Again a bit more weight but less $$.

Here is one design/quote:

DT 240S road hubs $315.00 pair

DT Onyx road $175.00 pair

DT RR1.1 black or silver $140.00 pair

DT Super Competition spokes black only with any color alloy nipple
$1.15 each

DT Competition spokes stainless steel silver $.80 each plated brass
nipples silver, $.85 plated brass black, $1.00 alloy any color. For
black spokes add $.15.

Labor to build $90.00 pair

I use a bit higher tension in my wheels and use a spoke tension meter to
insure that the spokes are at the proper tension and that each spoke is
within 5% of the other spokes in the front wheel and each side of the
rear wheel. This method helps the wheel stay tensioned and true usually
for the life of the rim.

If you want to go into this concept further or want more options please
call or email.

Regards,

Joe Young

Joe Young Wheels Joe Young Wheels Phone:830 997 6376

--

forum writes-<< I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that
sounds

Quoted message said:

good enough to me. >><BR><BR>

BUT laced to a much heavier rim.

forum-<< Any OCR is going to outlast a std rim >><BR><BR>

Depends on the rim. A light OCR rim will NOT outlast a heavier non OCR rim. OCR
is not a panacea for light rims, low spoke count, thin spokes.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Jesse-<< I placed an inquiry with Joe Young (Youngwheels.com) about light,
durable wheels that would support my weight (200 lb) and riding (mostly
smooth roads) and received a great response.

Long reponse but e-mail me direct on the many points he mentions that IME, are
not true. Like how 'fast' hubs are, how DT hubs are 'faster and smoother and
easier to service', than shimano or Campagnolo. How he 'knows' that DT rims are
a superior 'metal'. How weight at the rim makes for better climbing, etc. Also
how DT flanges remove the requirement for regular retensioning and truing.

How tyhe tension of Velocity rimns are less than other rims?

There is so much bugleoil in his respose, it makes me cring.

No such animal as Revolution 14/15/15, less windup with a 2/1.7/1.8 spoke?

Plus $.80 per spoker for 14/15 spokes? yikes.

Me thinks he gets a huge $$ something from DT.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

you believe that figure?

i remember one of the old maintainence guys in a production facility
telling stories about one of his tools. [he did this with everyone he
ever met].

"i've had this hammer 20 years - it's been marvellous. it's had 2 new
heads and 3 new handles, but it's still the same hammer..."

you go back & read jobst's posts and filter out the replaced rims that
wore out, the hubs with broken flanges & the spokes that failed, then
tell me that you have a 200,000 mile wheel? something of a
"terminalogical inexactitude".

Andrew Lee said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Disagree. NO reason to use a 15/16 vs a 14/15. What advantage does a 15/16

have

Quoted message said:

over a 14/15??

<Paul< You can't tell a weight weenie anything. >><BR><BR>

We wouldn't build that wheel.

I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If so, that sounds good
enough to me.

jim beam said:

you believe that figure?

Why not?

Quoted message said:

i remember one of the old maintainence guys in a production facility
telling stories about one of his tools. [he did this with everyone he
ever met].

"i've had this hammer 20 years - it's been marvellous. it's had 2 new
heads and 3 new handles, but it's still the same hammer..."

you go back & read jobst's posts and filter out the replaced rims that
wore out, the hubs with broken flanges & the spokes that failed, then
tell me that you have a 200,000 mile wheel? something of a
"terminalogical inexactitude".

Read what I wrote above. I was talking about his 200,000 mile SPOKES, not
wheels. If a few spokes fail over a couple of decades because of nicks, so
what? As for the rest of his wheels, I thought he was still riding some old
Campagnolo hubs must have a lot of miles in them. You could ask him how
much, I don't know.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Andrew Lee wrote: I thought Jobst's 200,000 mile spokes were 15/16. If

so, that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sounds good enough to me.

BUT laced to a much heavier rim.

I thought the original poster was also asking for rim suggestions: "Torelli
Master? Mavic MA3? Mavic Open Pro? Bontrager Maverick? Sun CR-18?" Most of
these aren't lighter than the MA2s, which have a claimed weight of 460g
(some actual weights from Rinard: 444,451,466,454,481,481). Anyway,
reading Jobst and Sheldon, it seems that lighter rims that might be more
likely to crack around the spoke holes do better with thin spokes.

Googled < http://tinyurl.com/2yrvz > :

Ben Coleman said:

My last two rear MTB wheels used Mavic rims and straight guage
spokes. I am around 200lbs and ride technical terrain on a hardtail
and thus am quite hard on my rear wheel and my LBS recommended
moving to straight guage spokes for strength.
Both these wheels failed around spoke holes, the first by cracking
across the rim at a local flat spot, the second by pulling eyelets
through the rim.
Looking at Sheldon Brown's web page and posts here, I am considering
moving to double butted (14/15) spokes to reduce the stress applied
to a single point on the rim.

It helps but may not get rid of it completely. I believe you would do
better with 1.8-1.6mm spokes. They are plenty strong enough and
develop a better load distribution in the rim. You may have problems
at the spoke elbows because the holes in the flanges are too large.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]