Kryptonite Locks safe?

On 2004-06-22, Thomas Schmidt penned:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round or
tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks with
a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-locks or even
brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am asking because I have 3
kryptonite locks in use, one EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain
(2 years old) and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have to
replace them all?

My advice:

If a thief wants your bike, no lock will stop them. I've had friends
return to their cars only to find that part of the rack has been sawed
off to remove the bike.

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you really, really don't
want your bike stolen, don't leave it unattended.

And for god's sake, make sure you have renter's or homeowner's
insurance! It covers the loss of bikes and such.

--
monique

Quoted message said:

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you really, really don't
want your bike stolen, don't leave it unattended.

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a difference if a lock has
easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-pick cylinders like the ace-2, and
that is what I want to know.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah.

If good advice is useless "blah, blah, blah" then maybe you need to ask about
this in alt.locksmithing instead.
(Yes, it exists, as does alt.life.locksmithing)

Steve "full of blah, blah, blah..."

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless because
she did not answer my question and just wrote something general instead.

Thomas Schmidt says:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah.

If good advice is useless "blah, blah, blah" then maybe you need to ask about
this in alt.locksmithing instead.
(Yes, it exists, as does alt.life.locksmithing)

Steve "full of blah, blah, blah..."

Thomas Schmidt said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a difference if a lock has
easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-pick cylinders like the ace-2, and
that is what I want to know.

Not really. No thief is going to take the time to pick a lock. A squirt
of freon, a tap with a hammer, and he's got your bike.

A lock will deter a casual thief, but a casual thief ain't gonna know how
to pick a lock.

Lock picking is an art, learned over time. Most bike thieves aren't too
bright and don't want to learn - that's why they steal instead of working
or going to school.

Where I went to school, we had at least 2 organized gangs that stole
bikes for a living. No one ever had a lock picked. Locks were forced,
broken, cut, or - my fave - parking meter heads loosened so that the
thieves could slide the meter head off, pick up the bike, lock and
all, then replace the meter head.

--Kamus

--Kamus

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round
or tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks
with a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-locks or
even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am asking because I
have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one EvoLite (4 years old), one
New York Chain (2 years old) and a quite old kryptonite I don't
know the exact name, should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have
to replace them all?

The marketing dilweeds want you to replace ALL of your locks. If
someone wants your bike, it doesn't matter what lock is on it. I've
said it before and I'll say it again, keep your mountain bike indoors
unless you are going to ride the trails. For putting around town, use
a beater, aka "townie". Then if the townie gets stolen, you're not
out of too much of your hard earned dough. Besides, most thieves will
not bother with a townie.

JD

On 2004-06-22, Thomas Schmidt penned:

Quoted message said:

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless because she did
not answer my question and just wrote something general instead.

Of course, of course. You're absolutely right. I tried to help you
with your real problem (not wanting to get your bike stolen) rather than
with your perceived problem (telling the difference between locks).

You're agonizing about the type of lock to put on your front door while
your windows are all wide open.

--
monique

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have
to replace them all?

The marketing dilweeds want you to replace all of your locks every
year. Keep your "expensive" mountain bike inside unless you are going
to ride the dirt and buy a townie for putting around town.

JD

Thomas Schmidt said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah.

If good advice is useless "blah, blah, blah" then maybe you need to
ask about this in alt.locksmithing instead.
(Yes, it exists, as does alt.life.locksmithing)

Steve "full of blah, blah, blah..."

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless because
she did not answer my question and just wrote something general
instead.

OK, you forced me to re-read the thread. Her advice was spot-on, and you
should thank her for taking the time to reply to you at all instead of
deriding her comments.

Reminds me of an idiot in wreck.misc who asked for excercise advice and
reading recommendations, and then found fault with every single suggestion.

Bill "go read lock reviews if you don't like it here" S.

Thomas Schmidt said:

What Monique said was NOT good advice, it was useless because
she did not answer my question and just wrote something general instead.

Are you under the impression that Monique is on your payroll? That she
owes you some research or that she should spend time working on your
behalf?

No one here owes you squat. Usenet is free; take it or leave it. People
contribute what they want. You are free to use it or not. But rules of
common decency apply; when asking for a favor, don't be an [censored].

If you want to know about this ace-2 lock, google for it, spend a couple
of hours (or days) reading up on it, and post the results. Otherwise,
quit your [censored] and go away.

--Kamus

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you really, really don't
want your bike stolen, don't leave it unattended.

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a difference if a lock has
easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-pick cylinders like the ace-2, and
that is what I want to know.

This is bike forum. Not a lockpicking forum.

Go here:

http://www.lockpicking101.com/

Thomas Schmidt said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round
or tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks
with a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-locks or
even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am asking because I
have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one EvoLite (4 years old), one
New York Chain (2 years old) and a quite old kryptonite I don't
know the exact name, should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have
to replace them all?

Thank you for your advice, Thomas

I had a Kryptonite New Yorker Chain (with old style EV Disc lock) and it was
picked while I was at college. The bike was subsequently stolen, of
course. If you must buy a lock, make sure it's the so-called 'ace-2'
version.

John M

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round
or tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks
with a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

You sure you want an "ace-2" lock?

http://www.gun-room.com/product348.html

jack said:

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round
or tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks
with a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

You sure you want an "ace-2" lock?

http://www.gun-room.com/product348.html

lol That's just wrong!!!

--
Slacker

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2004-06-22, Thomas Schmidt penned:

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round or
tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks with
a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-locks or even
brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am asking because I have 3
kryptonite locks in use, one EvoLite (4 years old), one New York Chain
(2 years old) and a quite old kryptonite I don't know the exact name,
should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have to
replace them all?

My advice:

If a thief wants your bike, no lock will stop them. I've had friends
return to their cars only to find that part of the rack has been sawed
off to remove the bike.

Any lock can be picked or frozen/shattered. If you really, really don't
want your bike stolen, don't leave it unattended.

And for god's sake, make sure you have renter's or homeowner's
insurance! It covers the loss of bikes and such.

A hacksaw did my Kryptonite lock in and my bike vanished in thin air.....

I thought Monique dished out good advice just then..
Cranky [censored]. also theives dont pick locks they hack off locks and prly
locks off with crow bars the weakest spot on the chain/lock join. they'd use
a car jack, anything ! but picking them unless very skilled crims wont pick
your lock. especially 3 locks. or however many you are using.

"Thomas Schmidt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

a friend told me that all these bicycle locks that have these round
or tubular keys are not safe because they were easy to open with
so-called "picktools". he also told me that there are newer locks
with a "ace-2" lock or something which are safer.

The question is: does all that only regard cheap noname-locks or
even brand-name locks like kryptonite? I am asking because I
have 3 kryptonite locks in use, one EvoLite (4 years old), one
New York Chain (2 years old) and a quite old kryptonite I don't
know the exact name, should be about 10 years old.

Do at least the newer ones feature this "ace-2" lock or do I have
to replace them all?

Thank you for your advice, Thomas

Kamus of Kadizhar <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thomas Schmidt said:

Sorry, but this is useless blah blah. There is a difference if a lock has
easy-to-pick cylinders or difficult-to-pick cylinders like the ace-2, and
that is what I want to know.

Not really. No thief is going to take the time to pick a lock. A squirt
of freon, a tap with a hammer, and he's got your bike.

Urban legend.
Freon is a simple CFC. The Dupont trademarked "Freon" is/was used as a
refrigerant, but even submerging metals in it has no effect on the
structure of the metal. As a side note, one of the inventors of Freon
(Thomas Midgley) demonstrated the "safety" of Freon by inhaling the
gas, and then exhaling it to blow out a candle.

And before anyone jumps on liquid nitrogen ... it is costly (in useful
amounts) and hard to work with.

Most U-locks are broken mechanically. It is quick, easy, and can be
done with readily available tools.

R

<snip>

Reco Diver said:

Urban legend.
Freon is a simple CFC. The Dupont trademarked "Freon" is/was used as a
refrigerant, but even submerging metals in it has no effect on the
structure of the metal.

T'aint the structure. It's the fact that when you release a compressed
gas (any gas) the temp drops. Freon just happens to be very good at that.

So, take a compressed gas, release it with metal in the way, metal
freezes. Freeze metal enough, it becomes brittle. Tap it with a hammer,
it shatters.

IIRC, hardened steel is especially prone to this; this is apparently why
some locks have a mild steel 'sheath' around a hardened steel core.

Nothing to do with Freon or its safety; you could use CO2 for a demo.
Heck, have you never had a valve freeze after using one of those CO2
cartridges?

Some googling - turns out that the freezing method has dropped in
popularity; I guess because now you need a license for Freon and locks
have become less susceptible.

--Kamus

--
o |
o__ >[] | A roadie who doesn't ride a mountain bike has no soul.
,>/'_ /\ | But then a mountain biker who doesn't ride a road bike has no legs...
(_)\(_) \ \ | -Doug Taylor, alt.mountain-bike

"Kamus of Kadizhar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Reco Diver said:

Urban legend.
Freon is a simple CFC. The Dupont trademarked "Freon" is/was used as a
refrigerant, but even submerging metals in it has no effect on the
structure of the metal.

T'aint the structure. It's the fact that when you release a compressed
gas (any gas) the temp drops. Freon just happens to be very good at that.

So, take a compressed gas, release it with metal in the way, metal
freezes. Freeze metal enough, it becomes brittle. Tap it with a hammer,
it shatters.

IIRC, hardened steel is especially prone to this; this is apparently why
some locks have a mild steel 'sheath' around a hardened steel core.

Nothing to do with Freon or its safety; you could use CO2 for a demo.
Heck, have you never had a valve freeze after using one of those CO2
cartridges?

Some googling - turns out that the freezing method has dropped in
popularity; I guess because now you need a license for Freon and locks
have become less susceptible.

--Kamus

No, Reco Diver is 100% correct on this one. Freon, CO2 and other commonly
compressed gases do not get cold enough to shatter a bicycle lock. Liquid
nitrogen is one gas that requires extremely high pressure to become a liquid
and it will get cold enough. If CO2 and freon could get this cold people
would severly burn their hands when inflating their bicycles tires or
filling their A/C systems.

It's an urban myth that thieves use these common gases to bust locks. They
simply take a hydraulic jack and pop the lock. Sorry, no lock picks and no
exotic gases.

Dave