I was misled

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

"So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go unobserved
and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a
stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a
matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in
the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation."

John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Bill "fix your user name, Jobst" S.

Quoted message said:

"So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
the United Nations. He cannot

be permitted to go unobserved and unimpeded toward his
horrific objective of amassing a stockpile of weapons of
mass destruction. This is not a matter about which there
should be any debate whatsoever in the Security Council, or,
certainly, in this Nation."

Quoted message said:

John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Bill "fix your user name, Jobst" S.

It has occurred to me, as it should to you, that the
intelligence reports which John Kerry was receiving were not
of the same quality that George Bush was receiving. Indeed,
many if not all of his reports were filtered down through
the present administration. Therefore, how can you believe
that the remarks of the two men should be considered equally
when one is the sitting president and the other is not privy
to all of the same information?

Pat in TX.

Pat' from said:

It has occurred to me, as it should to you, that the
intelligence reports which John Kerry was receiving were
not of the same quality that George Bush was receiving.
Indeed, many if not all of his reports were filtered down
through the present administration. Therefore, how can you
believe that the remarks of the two men should be
considered equally when one is the sitting president and
the other is not privy to all of the same information?

It's not like it matters. Both men are comitted to
continuing the illegal occupation of Iraq, heaping more
misery on a country which should by rights be getting
reparations payments instead. Bush shouldn't be President;
he should be in the dock for war crimes. This Iraq War is a
great national shame.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

S o r n i said:

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

"So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go unobserved
and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a
stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a
matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in
the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation."

John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Jobst is just gullible because he would rather get his
news from biased sources so he doesn't have to confront
the truth.

For example, when Russian President Vladimir Putin recently
told the press how Russia warned us repeatedly that they had
solid evidence that Iraq was planning to attack the US and
US interests abroad after the 9/11 attacks...

news.bbc.co.uk3819057.stmOpen ↗

Guess how the major networks in the US handled it? NOT A
FRIGGIN' WORD. The NY Times and other liberal papers buried
the story at the bottom of an inside page.

If you'd rather form an opinion unencumbered by the
facts, by all means follow the links to the propaganda
that Jobst posted.

If you'd rather actually know what's going on, I'd suggest
starting with an unbiased compilation like the Drudge Report
(recently determined to be by far less biased than any other
news source that was analyzed). That becomes pretty obvious
when you see it...

www.drudgereport.com

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

For example, when Russian President Vladimir Putin
recently told the press how Russia warned us repeatedly
that they had solid evidence that Iraq was planning to
attack the US and US interests abroad after the 9/11
attacks...

news.bbc.co.uk3819057.stmOpen ↗

Hmmm, it seems Putin is finally repaying Dubbya for his
redefining the Chechyns from freedom fighters to terrorists.
How very convenient it all
is.

--

j: Top-posters.
k: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

Wow, maybe I should start posting press releases from the
RNC.

Welcome to my killfile.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:50:54 GMT, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

I was misled once too.

I went into a shop and bought a wheel that the shopguys
assured me would fit my rear dropout spacing.

It didn't. I was peeved.

This thread will now live forever.

-Luigi

I was misled into thinking that I was browsing rec.bicycles.misc....oh wait I am browsing the right forum. Shouldn't you be posting to misc.activism.progressive or talk.politics.misc????

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

Guess how the major networks in the US handled it? NOT A
FRIGGIN' WORD. The NY Times and other liberal papers
buried the story at the bottom of an inside page.

CNN's online service carried it as a headline article. Not
the same exposure as a broadcast item on the evening news to
be sure, but it's still a major network.

....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's not like it matters. Both men are comitted to
continuing the illegal occupation of Iraq, heaping more
misery on a country which should by

rights be

Quoted message said:

getting reparations payments instead. Bush shouldn't be
President; he

should

Quoted message said:

be in the dock for war crimes. This Iraq War is a great
national shame.

You mean the UN sanctioned "illegal occupation" put in place
after GW I?

Pete

Bill Sorni said:

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

"So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go
unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of
amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This
is not a matter about which there should be any debate
whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this
Nation."

Quoted message said:

John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Yes??? And this was in respect to what? This was not a call
to invade Iraq as you can see from the text. It was a call
for the UN intervention and inspections.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Kevan Smith said:

Quoted message said:

It has occurred to me, as it should to you, that the
intelligence reports which John Kerry was receiving were
not of the same quality that George Bush was receiving.
Indeed, many if not all of his reports were filtered down
through the present administration. Therefore, how can
you believe that the remarks of the two men should be
considered equally when one is the sitting president and
the other is not privy to all of the same information?

Quoted message said:

It's not like it matters. Both men are committed to
continuing the illegal occupation of Iraq, heaping more
misery on a country which should by rights be getting
reparations payments instead. Bush shouldn't be President;
he should be in the dock for war crimes. This Iraq War is
a great national shame.

A recent political cartoon made that clear showing a burned
out auto wreck, labeled Iraq, with a US soldier giving the
keys to an Iraqi saying "OK, you can drive now." The USA
cannot easily extricate itself from the debacle and there
are no easy solutions to the matter of solving the enormous
problems the willful destruction of that nation has caused.

Well known military documents state that policing a nation
after it capitulates in battle is a task nearly as great as
winning the battle. Under commanders who knew what lay
before them our forces sat idly by as looting and
destruction, as great as that caused by our weapons, went on
for weeks, pretending that this was a great surprise. This
occurred under Donald Rumsfeld who, as I, learned about this
the role of military policing and combat in officer's
training and subsequent service:

defenselink.milrumsfeld.htmlOpen ↗

Iraqis did not come running out to welcome their liberators
as our nation was told would occur. Those who predicted the
actual outcome were put down as enemy sympathizers and the
like... the whole mess is such a sordid story as we lost the
support of all the nations who came to our cause after
9/11... freedom fries and the like.

Fortunately the American people still have friends in the
world even though our administration is universally hated.
However we could change that too in the upcoming election.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Scott Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Wow, maybe I should start posting press releases from
the RNC.

What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.
Maybe you could point out where there are errors in this
report. Facts contrary to ones beliefs are often so
disconcerting that they are suppressed.

Quoted message said:

Welcome to my killfile.

That is so you won't see what others are saying, I take it.
You need to kill the subject and follow-ups.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Bill Sorni said:

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

"So we have an obligation of enormous consequence, an
obligation to guarantee that Saddam Hussein cannot ignore
the United Nations. He cannot be permitted to go
unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of
amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This
is not a matter about which there should be any debate
whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this
Nation."

Quoted message said:

John Kerry on Senate floor, 11/9/97.

Yes??? And this was in respect to what? This was not a call
to invade Iraq as you can see from the text. It was a call
for the UN intervention and inspections.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Scott Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

daily.misleader.orgctt.aspOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Wow, maybe I should start posting press releases from
the RNC.

What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.
Maybe you could point out where there are errors in this
report. Facts contrary to ones beliefs are often so
disconcerting that they are suppressed.

Quoted message said:

Welcome to my killfile.

That is so you won't see what others are saying, I take it.
You need to kill the subject and follow-ups.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:18:34 GMT, [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.

I'm not irritated about factual reporting.

I am mildly irritated that rbm is going to be turned into
yet another front for the US Presidential election.

You've been around on the rec.bicycles.* hierarchy much
longer than I have, so I know you won't take kindly to a
n00b like me reproaching you for posting something so
blatantly off-topic as this. But perhaps there are regular
NG readers who want to talk about bicycles and wish not to
have the ugliness of the present electoral campaign intrude
upon that discussion?

-Luigi

www.livejournal.com/users/ouij photos, rants, raves.

Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

For example, when Russian President Vladimir Putin
recently told the press how Russia warned us repeatedly
that they had solid evidence that Iraq was planning to
attack the US and US interests abroad after the 9/11
attacks...

news.bbc.co.uk3819057.stmOpen ↗

Yes, I'm going to take the word of an ex-KGB officer who
is trying to help Bush get re-elected lest someone else
get in there who disapproves of the Russian death squads
in Chechnya.

Quoted message said:

Guess how the major networks in the US handled it? NOT A
FRIGGIN' WORD. The NY Times and other liberal papers
buried the story at the bottom of an inside page.

The thing that I'm surprised about is that various Bush
admin hacks didn't get all over the Sunday morning news
shows with this. On the contrary, someone, CIA official I
believe, said they didn't know what Putin was referring to.
My guess is that if Putin did tell Bush something, the
*whole* story is actually embarassing so Bush can't use it-
maybe something like, Putin told Bush that Iraq was making
plans to attack the US with terrorists if we invaded Iraq.

Quoted message said:

If you'd rather form an opinion unencumbered by the
facts, by all means follow the links to the propaganda
that Jobst posted.

You wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you in the face.
Jobst's post references the St. Petersburg Times and San
Francisco Chronicle, and they reference a response by Tampa
International Airport to the 9/11 Commission. Jobst's
article is thoroughly footnoted. There are no holes in it.
The flight happened.

So stop lying and trying to say it didn't.

Quoted message said:

If you'd rather actually know what's going on, I'd suggest
starting with an unbiased compilation like the Drudge
Report (recently determined to be by far less biased than
any other news source that was analyzed). That becomes
pretty obvious when you see it...

www.drudgereport.com

Amazing. Drudge is a rumor-monger. Some times he is right,
often he is wrong.

JP

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:37:23 GMT, "Pete" <[email hidden]> from Road Runner High

Speed Online url='http://www.rr.com/'http://www.rr.com/url said:

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's not like it matters. Both men are comitted to
continuing the illegal occupation of Iraq, heaping more
misery on a country which should by

rights be

Quoted message said:

getting reparations payments instead. Bush shouldn't be
President; he

should

Quoted message said:

be in the dock for war crimes. This Iraq War is a great
national shame.

You mean the UN sanctioned "illegal occupation" put in
place after GW I?

Do not mislead people. The war was never "UN Sanctioned,"
and there wasn't an occupation until after the war. Pete,
I'm ashamed for you. I know you know better than to lie like
that to cover for Bush.

--
Kevan Smith
[email hidden]

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

What is it that irritates you so about factual reporting.

Quoted message said:

I'm not irritated about factual reporting.

Quoted message said:

I am mildly irritated that rbm is going to be turned into
yet another front for the US Presidential election.

This like other topics we might choose not to read is each
reader's prerogative to skip or not. Off topic trouble
arises when within a thread someone takes advantage of folks
who are following the subject by introducing another agenda
such as helmets under tire problems. That is not what is
happening here.

Quoted message said:

You've been around on the rec.bicycles.* hierarchy much
longer than I have, so I know you won't take kindly to a
n00b like me reproaching you for posting something so
blatantly off-topic as this. But perhaps there are regular
NG readers who want to talk about bicycles and wish not to
have the ugliness of the present electoral campaign
intrude upon that discussion?

Those people who disagree with exposing the lies of this
administration failed to read Orwell's 1984 and do not
recognize Newspeak when the see it.

newspeakdictionary.comns frames.htmlOpen ↗

They believe the American way is so perfect that if our
leader says it, it must be the truth. Even Dan Quayle was
saved by that axiom.

xmission.comDQOpen ↗

Just remember that GWB had no comment when he was told
Ronald Reagan had died. It took him six hours to get a
script from his mentors before he could give an official
statement at midnight from his trip in Europe. All this
stuff is scripted and filtered. Discussing this in any and
all newsgroups is an urgent matter for the survival of our
nation as a democracy as the hatchet man John Ashcroft hacks
away at civil liberties and international law. The ugly
brutality of our administration is a huge blot on the
nation. If you follow foreign news you could see haw bad we
look in the eyes of the world. BBC news is mild compared to
other continental news sources. I don't know what is being
said in Asia.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]