MTB Handlebar Height

"Michael J. Klein" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

No, two days on a new bike is not enough for a real answer
to your question. Try at least two weeks or better two
months. One has to get adjusted to ones new bike and in the
process of adjustment (or getting used to) pain is sometimes
the name of the game What type of gloves are you using?

--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time? Michael J. Klein
[email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

How are the brake handles and shifters set up? If they are
rotated so that they are facing forward, you have to twist
your wrist back and down for operation, and this can cause
problems. Pretend the levers aren't there and see where your
hands, arms, and shoulders are comfortable. Then rotate the
levers to match this. Not the other way around, rotating
wrists to match levers.

Still it sounds like the stem could be changed for now. When
I bought a similar bike last year, the handlebars were at
the right distance but far too low. I was getting a
cramp/pain at the base of my neck from having to hold my
head back in order to see. Getting a stem that raised it an
inch solved that.

Since you just got back on a bike (if I remember your other
posts) I'd play it conservative. Get a new stem that pulls
the handlebars back and up. Maybe the dealer could loan you
an adjustable one for a week or two, and when you find the
right position you buy a new one from him? As time goes on
and your body adjusts, you can swap stems again, maybe
ending up with the one you have right now after a year...

Look at the seat position, also. This seriously affects how
weight is distributed between the seat and handlebars.

peterwhitecycles.comfitting.htmOpen ↗

RE/

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

Not normal.

First think I'd check is the saddle tilt. Maybe you're
sliding forward on a saddle whose nose is down rather than
level or up.

Does the bike have riser bars? If not, one option for more
height is risers.

Another option is one of those extenders that goes between
the steering tube and your stem. Dunno how robust they are
mechanically, but they're good for 3-4" of height.
--
PeteCresswell

Bert L.am said:

"Michael J. Klein" <[email hidden]> schreef in
bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2
days and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

No, two days on a new bike is not enough for a real
answer to your question. Try at least two weeks or better
two months. One has to get adjusted to ones new bike and
in the process of adjustment (or getting used to) pain is
sometimes the name of the game What type of gloves are
you using?

gloves? Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen,
Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden] jackson@sonet-
tw.net.tw [email hidden] www.goto-info.com
[email hidden] [email hidden] [email hidden]

Dan Daniel said:

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time? Michael J. Klein
[email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan,
ROC Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

How are the brake handles and shifters set up? If they are
rotated so that they are facing forward, you have to twist
your wrist back and down for operation, and this can cause
problems. Pretend the levers aren't there and see where
your hands, arms, and shoulders are comfortable. Then
rotate the levers to match this. Not the other way around,
rotating wrists to match levers.

The position of the brakes and shifters appears good. I will
keep taht aspect in mind though, as small changes can make a
big difference.

Quoted message said:

Still it sounds like the stem could be changed for now.
When I bought a similar bike last year, the handlebars were
at the right distance but far too low. I was getting a
cramp/pain at the base of my neck from having to hold my
head back in order to see. Getting a stem that raised it an
inch solved that.

Since you just got back on a bike (if I remember your other
posts) I'd play it conservative. Get a new stem that pulls
the handlebars back and up. Maybe the dealer could loan you
an adjustable one for a week or two, and when you find the
right position you buy a new one from him? As time goes on
and your body adjusts, you can swap stems again, maybe
ending up with the one you have right now after a year...

I'm going to ask him about that later next week when I go
back for some adjustments.

Quoted message said:

Look at the seat position, also. This seriously affects how
weight is distributed between the seat and handlebars.

That is a very good point! I was thinking about that but I
didn't adjust anything yet for lack of information. Thanks
for the URL.

Quoted message said:

peterwhitecycles.comfitting.htmOpen ↗

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden]
[email hidden] [email hidden] jackson@sonet-
tw.net.tw [email hidden] www.goto-info.com
[email hidden] [email hidden] [email hidden]

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

Not normal.

Thanks for confirming that. Its my belief that if something
feels wrong, it probably is.

Quoted message said:

First think I'd check is the saddle tilt. Maybe you're
sliding forward on a saddle whose nose is down rather than
level or up.

I did make some saddle adjustments today, after reading
about bicycle fitting. This seems to have made quite a
positive difference.

Quoted message said:

Does the bike have riser bars? If not, one option for more
height is risers.

I don't know what riser bars are! I have a pretty basic
Giant Yukon MTB.

Quoted message said:

Another option is one of those extenders that goes between
the steering tube and your stem. Dunno how robust they are
mechanically, but they're good for 3-4" of height.

That sounds interesting. I just came back from a pretty long
ride (for me that is, considering I got it 4 days ago) and I
don't seem to have the hand/arm fatigue that I did
previously.

I'm going to detail the adjustments I made in another
message so you may choose the level of boredom you wish to
be exposed to! lol

Thanks Pete!

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Michael J. Klein said:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:16:37 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does the bike have riser bars? If not, one option for
more height is risers.

I don't know what riser bars are! I have a pretty basic
Giant Yukon MTB.

A riser bar has upward curves, as opposed to a "flat bar"
that's...well, you know 🙂

Quoted message said:

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Thanks for losing the long string of addies here!

Bill "noticed" S.

Note: This is the second reply to the original reply:

Dan Daniel said:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:28:02 +0800, Michael J. Klein
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<my comments snipped>

Quoted message said:

How are the brake handles and shifters set up? If they are
rotated so that they are facing forward, you have to twist
your wrist back and down for operation, and this can cause
problems. Pretend the levers aren't there and see where
your hands, arms, and shoulders are comfortable. Then
rotate the levers to match this. Not the other way around,
rotating wrists to match levers.

I took another look at how they were positioned. I'm a
manufacturing engineer by trade and have setup quite a
number of factory assembly lines and ergonomic workstations.
I did end up adjusting the brake/shifter positions slightly
different from where they were originally. The compromise is
for the thumb. When the brakes are dead centered for pull,
the thumbs have to be moved way up. Positioning the brake
levers up somewhat puts the thumb shifting lever down and
then its not such a wrist move to reach them.

<other stuff snipped out>

Quoted message said:

Look at the seat position, also. This seriously affects how
weight is distributed between the seat and handlebars.

peterwhitecycles.comfitting.htmOpen ↗

After reading this article again (I had read it some time
ago, but now I had something to actually adjust), I made
some minor adjustments one at a time. I went for a ride
and checked out the adjustments. For me, this was a pretty
long ride.

Before I left, I put the seat back about 2.5 cm (~1"😉. I
rode it to the bottom of the big hill and around some before
I stopped to take a drink. At that point I pushed it back
further, about another cm. After I went back up to the top
of the hill, I adusted the seat incline nose up and rode it
home. I like the final adjustment and my arms feel a lot
better now. Typically I felt like I had been bench pressing
the whole time. Now I feel more balanced. I anticipate that
as I lose this gut I'll have to push the seat forward as
I'll have less "ballast" to offset. lol

I know you guys like to get technical, so I made a map of
the course I rode today, which you can see here:
asiancastings.comride.jpgOpen ↗ The overall
distance indicated by the green line is approximately 2.47
KM one-way. Just on the other side of the highway, (the
blue line) is where I actually went. The blue line is an
irrigation channel which feeds the rice paddies, and has a
narrow paved path next to it. I rode south on the narrow
path until I couldn't go any further due to obstacles
(fallen debris). I turned around and rode north for
several kilometers along the irrigation channel and then
back under the highway through some small neighborhoods
and temples. You have to see it to appreciate how cool it
is to ride through the Taiwan countryside. Next time I go
out I will get some pictures - but imagine Buddhist
temples next to rice paddies with a thin paved bike path,
and the Central Mountain Range in the background and you
pretty much have it.

The part of the road with the large "S" curve (on the
website image) is an impressive hill with goes down as it
approaches the highway. My GPS indicates that the point
where the curve begins to the point where the road crosses
the highway is 400 meters, straight line. Yet, within this
linear distance the change in elevation is well over 100
meters! Needless to say, I rode the brakes pretty much all
the way down. While I was concerned about being able to get
back uphill, I was determined to not let the size of the
hill and the grade intimidate me and stop me from enjoying
my ride on the flatlands beyond. I could hear the motor
strain on the scooters passing me going uphill, lol.

On the uphill climb, I put it in granny and spun my way up.
I stopped 3 times to rest. Each time I got back on I felt
stronger. I had people driving by in cars and on scooters
who had incredulous looks on their faces. One guy looked at
me and gave me a very hearty "thumbs up." Once I got to the
top I took a rest on the steps of a temple (this is where I
made the seat angle adjustment). The guy in the van had
returned and drove by me again, with another thumbs up. Just
after that, a 20-something (or less) young man went down the
hill. He came back a few mins later, walking his bike! lol
He didn't go more than 50 meters and decided it was too much
for him. At 48 y/o, that made me feel pretty good. About
that time I felt like starting back home and I ended up
passing that guy without actually intending to. This leads
me to think that I'm not quite as out of shape as I thought.

Number of meters walking the bike back uphill: 0 Number of
meters riding off-seat back uphill: 0 Total distance ridden,
including large hill: 7km (estimate)

I understand that for you bike jocks this is nothing. For
me, its a beginning. I feel really great and I believe that
is the Zen goal (remember, the meaning of the word "zen" is
truth). I will get some pictures of the area next time
because of its scenic beauty.

For those of you who care (and don't know), I have written 2
bike articles related to manufacturing. See
asiancastings.comphoto galleries.htmOpen ↗ for the
master list of articles. At some point I will do one
regarding my fledgling bike activites. lol Michael J. Klein
[email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

S o r n i said:

Michael J. Klein said:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:16:37 GMT, "(Pete Cresswell)"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does the bike have riser bars? If not, one option for
more height is risers.

I don't know what riser bars are! I have a pretty basic
Giant Yukon MTB.

A riser bar has upward curves, as opposed to a "flat bar"
that's...well, you know 🙂

Duh, thanks! lol Mine is a slight riser then. Its rotated
for the max offset. I was thinking that I'd like to find a
set of high handlebars like I had when I was a kid, lol.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for losing the long string of addies here!

The addresses had done their work. I thank everyone for
their understanding. In fact, if everyone posted the
personal email addresses of spammers on USENET, maybe they
would get the message that spam is not a good thing.
Maybe.... Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen,
Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

Number of meters walking the bike back uphill: 0 Number of
meters riding off-seat back uphill: 0 Total distance
ridden, including large hill: 7km (estimate)

Killing a challenging hill: priceless.

Keep going; you're doing very well.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Michael J. Klein said:

S o r n i said:

Thanks for losing the long string of addies here!

The addresses had done their work. I thank everyone for
their understanding. In fact, if everyone posted the
personal email addresses of spammers on USENET, maybe they
would get the message that spam is not a good thing.
Maybe....

Ah. I missed the explanation of why they were there.

Bill "hmmmmm... pretty clever" S.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:39:56 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

Number of meters walking the bike back uphill: 0 Number
of meters riding off-seat back uphill: 0 Total distance
ridden, including large hill: 7km (estimate)

Killing a challenging hill: priceless.

Keep going; you're doing very well.

cheers, Tom

Thanks Tom - I'm having a blast. I appreciate the
encouragement.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

S o r n i said:

Michael J. Klein said:

S o r n i said:

Thanks for losing the long string of addies here!

The addresses had done their work. I thank everyone for
their understanding. In fact, if everyone posted the
personal email addresses of spammers on USENET, maybe
they would get the message that spam is not a good thing.
Maybe....

Ah. I missed the explanation of why they were there.

Bill "hmmmmm... pretty clever" S.

Totally off topic I know but - Hinet (my Taiwanese ISP) has
a bad habit of harvesting and these groups I'm posting to
are carried on their news server. So, while they did it to
me, they also did it to themselves.

Also, how often have we wanted the opportunity to know who
is spamming us and be able to call them on the phone or
visit them? Since all the spammers I have trouble with are
in Taiwan, I'm able to do so. All I can tell you is, its a
good thing for them that Taiwan law forbids me to carry my
gun here like I did back in NH. Even so, I did call a few of
them on the phone and they were *quite* surprised.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Michael J. Klein <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time? Michael J. Klein
[email hidden]

I think that although the other adjustments you've made will
probably help, it's pretty likely that eventually a
different stem will be the answer. It's at least part of the
answer for everyone who cares to get a really good fit on
their bike. It's true that a rider does get adjusted to a
bike to some extent after a period of time, but I think this
adjustment is pretty subtle and doesn't really have the
ability to overcome notable problems in weight distribution,
reach, etc. Or if it does, it certainly can't be relied upon
to do so. Experimenting with an adjustable stem but not
keeping it is a pretty good idea, but remember an adjustable
(or the common ones, at least) doesn't really have the
ability to simulate everything that the range of regular
stems can give you. Also a good piece of advice I've become
convinced about it is to pretty much completely ignore
everything you hear about how some stems will "mess up the
bike's steering geometry too much." It really isn't an
issue. Stems with short extensions do change the way the
bike steers, sometimes by quite a bit for really short
extensions, but this is a change that you get used to pretty
quick. So just get what feels good.

"Michael J. Klein" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bert L.am said:

"Michael J. Klein" <[email hidden]> schreef in
bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2
days and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all.
It looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the
stem is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on
the handlebar? New stem time?

No, two days on a new bike is not enough for a real
answer to your

question.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Try at least two weeks or better two months. One has to
get adjusted to ones new bike and in the process of
adjustment (or getting used to) pain is sometimes the
name of the game What type of gloves are you using?

gloves?

Cycling gloves with gel pads help to ease the pain
from pressure.

Back to the original issue: If you still have your old
bike: copy paste all positions, heights and distances
from handlebars, breaks, levers, saddle from the old to
the new bike.

bert l. (NL)

--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

Assuming that the fit is at least approximately right, you
might want to consider bar-ends as an alternative to a stem
with more rise. I have mine pointing up at a ca. 45 degree
angle from the horizontal. This allows for either a more
upright or a more bent forward position, depending on
headwinds, terrain, how I feel, etc. A bit like the multiple
positions available with drop bars on road bikes. Bar-ends
that curve around towards the middle offer even more hand
positions.

I have also been surprised at how much difference a couple
of degrees of saddle angle can make.

--
Ned Mantei Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal
Institute of Technology CH-8093 Zurich, Switzerland

On 20 Jun 2004 01:09:05 -0700, [email hidden] (Nate Knutson)

Quoted message said:

Michael J. Klein <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2
days and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time? Michael J. Klein
[email hidden]

I think that although the other adjustments you've made
will probably help, it's pretty likely that eventually a
different stem will be the answer. It's at least part of
the answer for everyone who cares to get a really good fit
on their bike. It's true that a rider does get adjusted to
a bike to some extent after a period of time, but I think
this adjustment is pretty subtle and doesn't really have
the ability to overcome notable problems in weight
distribution, reach, etc. Or if it does, it certainly can't
be relied upon to do so. Experimenting with an adjustable
stem but not keeping it is a pretty good idea, but remember
an adjustable (or the common ones, at least) doesn't really
have the ability to simulate everything that the range of
regular stems can give you. Also a good piece of advice
I've become convinced about it is to pretty much completely
ignore everything you hear about how some stems will "mess
up the bike's steering geometry too much." It really isn't
an issue. Stems with short extensions do change the way the
bike steers, sometimes by quite a bit for really short
extensions, but this is a change that you get used to
pretty quick. So just get what feels good.

Thanks for the advise Nate. Sounds like good common sense
thinking to
me. I'll be going back to my dealer sometime next week and
have a chat with him. I just hope my Chinese is up to
it. lol Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi
Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace
mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Ned Mantei said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

Assuming that the fit is at least approximately right, you
might want to consider bar-ends as an alternative to a stem
with more rise. I have mine pointing up at a ca. 45 degree
angle from the horizontal. This allows for either a more
upright or a more bent forward position, depending on
headwinds, terrain, how I feel, etc. A bit like the
multiple positions available with drop bars on road bikes.
Bar-ends that curve around towards the middle offer even
more hand positions.

I have also been surprised at how much difference a couple
of degrees of saddle angle can make.

I found out about the saddle angle today, and you are right
about that. The bar ends are an interesting idea - I will
see what my dealer has in stock. Thanks for the advice.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Bert L.am said:

"Michael J. Klein" <[email hidden]> schreef in
bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:15:14 +0200, "Bert L.am"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snipped>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, two days on a new bike is not enough for a real
answer to your

question.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Try at least two weeks or better two months. One has to
get adjusted to ones new bike and in the process of
adjustment (or getting used to) pain is sometimes the
name of the game What type of gloves are you using?

gloves?

Cycling gloves with gel pads help to ease the pain from
pressure.

My contention is that in this case, the pressure was more
than necessary. That seems to have proven true.

Quoted message said:

Back to the original issue: If you still have your old
bike: copy paste all positions, heights and distances
from handlebars, breaks, levers, saddle from the old to
the new bike.

I never had a MTB bike before, and my old 10 speed was in
1976.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------