MTB Handlebar Height

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

You have just discovered the reason why I prefer threaded
steerers; in a threadless system, you have to buy a
different stem to raise your bars just to see if that's what
you really need, but a threaded steerer's quill stem makes
it a trivial adjustment instead, within the limits of the
quill's range.

That minor and completely unhelpful rant aside, I think that
you might want to look at one of the adjustable-angle
threadless stems as a replacement. With an adjustable stem
in place, if it turns out that your needs change as you
become a more seasoned rider, you might not have to buy *yet
another* stem to potentially account for that.

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

Ned Mantei said:

Assuming that the fit is at least approximately right, you
might want to consider bar-ends as an alternative to a
stem with more rise. I have mine pointing up at a ca. 45
degree angle from the horizontal. This allows for either a
more upright or a more bent forward position, depending on
headwinds, terrain, how I feel, etc. A bit like the
multiple positions available with drop bars on road bikes.
Bar-ends that curve around towards the middle offer even
more hand positions.

I have also been surprised at how much difference a couple
of degrees of saddle angle can make.

That's true. You might also consider a bar with rise, even
with bar ends, as you can make quick bar position changes
fore and aft with just an allen key. In some ways more
versatile than just changing stems.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

Quoted message said:

I'm going to detail the adjustments I made in another
message so you may choose the level of boredom you wish to
be exposed to! lol

Ballpark for bar height is grips at saddle height. That's
the place to start. Some like the bars lower, some like them
higher....but start there and play around.

Also, distance from back of the saddle to the grips is
intertwined with height. Call it "reach". Same bar height,
different reach
==> different feel/performance.

RE/

Quoted message said:

Also, distance from back of the saddle to the grips is
intertwined with height. Call it "reach". Same bar height,
different reach
==> different feel/performance.

...and your risers will be an asset here. You can vary the
reach by canting the risers fore and aft.
--
PeteCresswell

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

Also, distance from back of the saddle to the grips is
intertwined with height. Call it "reach". Same bar height,
different reach
==> different feel/performance.

...and your risers will be an asset here. You can vary the
reach by canting the risers fore and aft.

But then you change the angle of the handgrips which can be
another fit problem. Don't risers have an amount of rise
*and* an angle off of a true 180 degree- grips coming back
at, say, 5 or 10 degrees?

Quoted message said:

But then you change the angle of the handgrips which can
be another fit problem. Don't risers have an amount of
rise *and* an angle off of a true 180 degree- grips coming
back at, say, 5 or 10 degrees?

Yes, but I haven't found it TB a problem.

On 22 Jun 2004 07:07:17 -0700, [email hidden]

(PeteCresswell) said:

Quoted message said:

But then you change the angle of the handgrips which can
be another fit problem. Don't risers have an amount of
rise *and* an angle off of a true 180 degree- grips
coming back at, say, 5 or 10 degrees?

Yes, but I haven't found it TB a problem.

I have, but people have different reactions to setup changes
and different priorities.

On 20 Jun 2004 01:09:05 -0700, [email hidden] (Nate Knutson)

Quoted message said:

Michael J. Klein <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2
days and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time? Michael J. Klein
[email hidden]

I think that although the other adjustments you've made
will probably help, it's pretty likely that eventually a
different stem will be the answer. It's at least part of
the answer for everyone who cares to get a really good fit
on their bike. It's true that a rider does get adjusted to
a bike to some extent after a period of time, but I think
this adjustment is pretty subtle and doesn't really have
the ability to overcome notable problems in weight
distribution, reach, etc. Or if it does, it certainly can't
be relied upon to do so. Experimenting with an adjustable
stem but not keeping it is a pretty good idea, but remember
an adjustable (or the common ones, at least) doesn't really
have the ability to simulate everything that the range of
regular stems can give you. Also a good piece of advice
I've become convinced about it is to pretty much completely
ignore everything you hear about how some stems will "mess
up the bike's steering geometry too much." It really isn't
an issue. Stems with short extensions do change the way the
bike steers, sometimes by quite a bit for really short
extensions, but this is a change that you get used to
pretty quick. So just get what feels good.

I developed a creaking sound in the crank (from those big
hills apparently) and the LBS is fixing it. While there I
noticed an Italian made adjustable stem which I intend to
purchase and install later today. I appreciate the advice
and I agree about the feel - as long as it feels OK it
doesn't matter what it is, technically. Michael J. Klein
[email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Werehatrack said:

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time?

You have just discovered the reason why I prefer threaded
steerers; in a threadless system, you have to buy a
different stem to raise your bars just to see if that's
what you really need, but a threaded steerer's quill stem
makes it a trivial adjustment instead, within the limits of
the quill's range.

That minor and completely unhelpful rant aside, I think
that you might want to look at one of the adjustable-angle
threadless stems as a replacement. With an adjustable stem
in place, if it turns out that your needs change as you
become a more seasoned rider, you might not have to buy
*yet another* stem to potentially account for that.

Good call. 🙂 I have my eye on an Italian made adjustable
stem which I should be installing this afternoon. Thanks.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

On 21 Jun 2004 13:19:19 -0700, [email hidden]

(PeteCresswell) said:

Quoted message said:

I'm going to detail the adjustments I made in another
message so you may choose the level of boredom you wish
to be exposed to! lol

Ballpark for bar height is grips at saddle height. That's
the place to start. Some like the bars lower, some like
them higher....but start there and play around.

Also, distance from back of the saddle to the grips is
intertwined with height. Call it "reach". Same bar height,
different reach
==> different feel/performance.

OK, this is good info. The bars are lower than saddle height
at the moment. Your comment about the reach factor is well
taken also. Thank you.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

Also, distance from back of the saddle to the grips is
intertwined with height. Call it "reach". Same bar height,
different reach
==> different feel/performance.

...and your risers will be an asset here. You can vary the
reach by canting the risers fore and aft.

This is exactly what I needed - more experienced riders
clueing me in. Thanks Pete.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Quoted message said:

OK, this is good info. The bars are lower than saddle
height at the moment. Your comment about the reach factor
is well taken also. Thank you.

If you're a geezer like me, you might want to start with the
bars about an inch *above* saddle height and work down.
(measuring ground to top of grip and ground to top of rear
of saddle)

Dunno how your bike is, but I always specify that the
steering tube be uncut. That allows me to move the bars
up and down quite a bit. The limiting factor is safety of
the height of the spacer stack. I don't know exactly what
that limit is, but I've been going on the assumption that
it is 1.5".

On 23 Jun 2004 07:06:05 -0700, [email hidden]

(PeteCresswell) said:

Quoted message said:

OK, this is good info. The bars are lower than saddle
height at the moment. Your comment about the reach factor
is well taken also. Thank you.

If you're a geezer like me, you might want to start with
the bars about an inch *above* saddle height and work down.
(measuring ground to top of grip and ground to top of rear
of saddle)

Yeah, I'm a geezer alright. I added an adjustable (dunno
what its called, but its not a full stem, more like a "head"
which bolts onto the stem) assembly and now have the height
maxed. Man, what a difference.

Quoted message said:

Dunno how your bike is, but I always specify that the
steering tube be uncut. That allows me to move the bars
up and down quite a bit. The limiting factor is safety of
the height of the spacer stack. I don't know exactly what
that limit is, but I've been going on the assumption that
it is 1.5".

All the spacers are on the bottom as it is. I played around
with the seat adjustment a bit more and its very close to
where it wants to be. No more unnecessary hand soreness from
leaning on the bar so hard.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Michael J. Klein said:

I bought a new Giant Yukon. I've been riding it for 2 days
and it feels like I'm leaning way too much on the
handlbars. My wrists and palms do not like it at all. It
looks like all the spacers are on the bottom and the stem
is up all the way. Is it normal to lean so hard on the
handlebar? New stem time? Michael J. Klein
[email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

Followup: After the new clamp on the stem, the height of the
bar is very comfortable. After about 10 different iterations
I have the seat to the point where it is the least
uncomfortable, and I am not sure it will ever be really
comfortable. I miss those big granny seats that old road
bikes used to have. At any rate, things seem to be setup
well. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Michael J. Klein said:

Followup: After the new clamp on the stem, the height of
the bar is very comfortable. After about 10 different
iterations I have the seat to the point where it is the
least uncomfortable, and I am not sure it will ever be
really comfortable. I miss those big granny seats that old
road bikes used to have. At any rate, things seem to be
setup well. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Sounds good except for the seat thing! Pretty important part
of the biking experience, isn't it? Seats shouldn't hurt.

Don't give up on a comfortable seat. It can be a difficult
search but it is worth it. When you are up for it, you might
start a new thread asking about seats, describing what is
wrong with your present one, etc. As with the stem/handlebar
stuff, lots of experience floating around here.

Michael J. Klein said:

very comfortable. After about 10 different iterations I
have the seat to the point where it is the least
uncomfortable, and I am not sure it will ever be really
comfortable. I miss those big granny seats that old road
bikes used to have.

Have you considered one of the big sprung Brooks saddles
like the B66/B67? I just got a B67 for the stoker seat on
a tandem...
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]>
Distortion Field!

RE/

Quoted message said:

Followup: After the new clamp on the stem, the height of
the bar is very comfortable.

Just out of curiosity:

1) How far off the ground are the handlebar grips

2) How far off the ground is the top of the saddle?

--
PeteCresswell

Dan Daniel said:

Michael J. Klein said:

Followup: After the new clamp on the stem, the height of
the bar is very comfortable. After about 10 different
iterations I have the seat to the point where it is the
least uncomfortable, and I am not sure it will ever be
really comfortable. I miss those big granny seats that old
road bikes used to have. At any rate, things seem to be
setup well. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Sounds good except for the seat thing! Pretty important
part of the biking experience, isn't it? Seats
shouldn't hurt.

One would think!

Quoted message said:

Don't give up on a comfortable seat. It can be a
difficult search but it is worth it. When you are up for
it, you might start a new thread asking about seats,
describing what is wrong with your present one, etc. As
with the stem/handlebar stuff, lots of experience
floating around here.

Very true, thank you.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

David Damerell said:

Michael J. Klein said:

very comfortable. After about 10 different iterations I
have the seat to the point where it is the least
uncomfortable, and I am not sure it will ever be really
comfortable. I miss those big granny seats that old road
bikes used to have.

Have you considered one of the big sprung Brooks saddles
like the B66/B67? I just got a B67 for the stoker seat on a
tandem...

No, I haven't. I have no idea what is available here, and I
haven't investigated it yet. I didn't want to change the
seat until I've tried all the different. Oh, excuse me
"saddle." lol

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

(Pete Cresswell) said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

Followup: After the new clamp on the stem, the height of
the bar is very comfortable.

Just out of curiosity:

1) How far off the ground are the handlebar grips

2) How far off the ground is the top of the saddle?

Dunno Pete. I'll have to measure those when I get back home
(traveling now).

Michael J. Klein [email hidden] Dasi Jen, Taoyuan
Hsien, Taiwan, ROC Please replace mousepotato with
asiancastings
---------------------------------------------