Diabetic walking

"Chris Malcolm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just been diagnosed as a minor type 2 diabetic, i.e.,
regard high glycemic carbohydrate foods like dried fruit,
rice, and oatmeal with suspicion. But not quite so much
suspicion if timed with appropriate exercise. Anyone know
of a source of good advice in the area of dietary
suggestions for hill-walking diabetics?

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445
DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings,
Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

I've been a type 1 [insulin dependant ] diabetic for over 10
years and it has NOT interfered with my walking in any way.

No need to play about with your recommended diet to any
great degree except you may want to take a little extra
carbohydrate before you start, to take account of the extra
energy you are going to expend.

Thing to remember is to ALWAYS carry spare carbohydrate and
a blood glucose monitoring kit. Check your blood glucose
every 2 to 3 hours during the walk and whenever you suspect
a hypo coming on. If your blood glucose has fallen too low
i.e. a hypo - get some carbohydrate in PDQ. Doing this
monitoring should prevent hypo's and will also enable you to
prevent the blood glucose rising too high by building up a
history of what works for you in terms of food intake and
energy expended. As you gain experience you may feel
confident enough to cut back slightly on the monitoring.

Your medical team [GP; diabetic nurse or whatever facilities
you have in your area] will be able to give you general
advice on diet and how to fit in around walking. Diabetes is
as much a state of mind as a physical illness. Proper
control is not too difficult and, when properly controlled
it will have minimal impact on your life - after all Steve
Redgrave has won Olympic gold medals after being diagnosed
as diabetic.

Roger C

Chris Malcolm said:

Just been diagnosed as a minor type 2 diabetic,

Sorry to hear that Chris.

Quoted message said:

i.e., regard high glycemic carbohydrate foods like dried
fruit, rice, and oatmeal with suspicion. But not quite
so much suspicion if timed with appropriate exercise.
Anyone know of a source of good advice in the area of
dietary suggestions for hill-walking diabetics?

Bill Grey might be able to give you some advice in
that area, why don't you email him? I notice he always
takes a banana.

Pau
--
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

The father of a friend of mine was diabetic. I never climbed
with him, but when in the Alps he was reputed to enter a
hut, flamboyantly inject himself, and then announce loudly
that unless he ate within half an hour he'd go into a coma -
thus avoiding the usual two-hour wait for dinner.

Howard

"Chris Malcolm" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just been diagnosed as a minor type 2 diabetic, i.e.,
regard high glycemic carbohydrate foods like dried fruit,
rice, and oatmeal with suspicion. But not quite so much
suspicion if timed with appropriate exercise. Anyone know
of a source of good advice in the area of dietary
suggestions for hill-walking diabetics?

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445
DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings,
Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Chris Malcolm said:

Just been diagnosed as a minor type 2 diabetic,

Sorry to hear that Chris.

Bugger, I missed the original post. That's unwelcome news I
should imagine Chris. Except... now you know why you've
been feeling knackered all the time etc and you can do
something about
it.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Roger Curtis said:

I've been a type 1 [insulin dependant ] diabetic for
over 10 years and it has NOT interfered with my walking
in any way.

No need to play about with your recommended diet to any
great degree except you may want to take a little extra
carbohydrate before you start, to take account of the
extra energy you are going to expend.

Thing to remember is to ALWAYS carry spare carbohydrate
and a blood glucose monitoring kit. Check your blood
glucose every 2 to 3 hours during the walk and whenever
you suspect a hypo coming on. If your blood glucose has
fallen too low i.e. a hypo - get some carbohydrate in
PDQ. Doing this monitoring should prevent hypo's and will
also enable you to prevent the blood glucose rising too
high by building up a history of what works for you in
terms of food intake and energy expended. As you gain
experience you may feel confident enough to cut back
slightly on the monitoring.

Your medical team [GP; diabetic nurse or whatever
facilities you have in your area] will be able to give
you general advice on diet and how to fit in around
walking. Diabetes is as much a state of mind as a
physical illness. Proper control is not too difficult
and, when properly controlled it will have minimal impact
on your life - after all Steve Redgrave has won Olympic
gold medals after being diagnosed as diabetic.

Roger C

I, like Roger, have been Type I for about ten years. I will
agree with everything that he has said, and add that I
researched before resuming hillwalking after my diagnosis
(with type I it's not something you can be in any doubt
about, unlike type II), and went with the recommendation to
halve my insulin dose prior to and during the walk. It has
worked well for me.

However, as a type II, you have a different set of problems.
From your description you are controlling it by diet alone,
no drugs and certainly no insulin. In which case you are
almost certainly immune from the effect of hypo's - but not
totally: I still recall with some wry amusement coming down
off the Glyders with a party of four friends after a
strenuous day (Bristly Ridge etc). At a stop one of them
complained of feeling light-headed and having tingly lips -
I urged him strongly to eat something (recognising the
symptoms from my own newly experienced hypos), but he would
have none of it. We set off and suddenly he literally fell
over; in retrospect it was comical, but at the time we were
running out of light and I was anxious to get off the hill.
He had suffered a hypo, simply through having an
overstrenuous day (at least, he has shown no signs since
then of diabetic symptoms).

Oops. I digress. Pretty well too, eh?

I'm not sure how Type II's need to modify their diet for
walking: I would get as much advice as you can from your
diabetic support team (diabetic specialist nurse,
consultant, etc) since they know their stuff and your case.
You will need to boost your carbohydrate intake to
compensate for the effort exerted during the walk; but diet-
control of type II is all about getting your average blood
sugar down to avoid the long-term complications. So it may
not matter too much if you over-eat for the occasional day
when walking, as long as your average diet is well
controlled. And the diabetic team should be happy that you
are exercising.

As for portable boosters, I find that Fruisli bars are a
good combination of sugar (quick boost) and cereal
carbohydrate (long-term boost) to adress incipient hypos
on the hill.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just been diagnosed as a minor type 2 diabetic,

I've been Type I for 20 years (has it really been that
long). I didn't start walking/climbing/mountaineering until
I was 20, so I'd already been dealing with the condition
for 8 years.

Carbohydrates (Fruesli bars and suchlike), are fine, but I
always take at least 5 Mars Bars in the ruc-sac as well.
Mars Bars have the highest concentration of carbohydrate of
any chocolate bar: just over 40g, and as such are the best
thing to take if you need a large amount of quick-acting
carb quickly (it used to be 50g before they were literally
"downsized" a couple of years ago).

I've been able to manage the condition and the mountains
reasonably well: lots of summer and winter walking and
climbing stuff in Scotland (where I hail from), the Alps,
Kilimanjaro, and made an ascent of Aconcagua in January.

All the best,

John B.

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Chris Malcolm wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just been diagnosed as a minor type 2 diabetic,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sorry to hear that Chris.

Quoted message said:

Bugger, I missed the original post. That's unwelcome news I
should imagine Chris. Except... now you know why you've
been feeling knackered all the time etc and you can do
something about
it.

Oddly enough I've been realising that something about my
diet was messing me up for some years, and I'd actually been
improving it in the right direction, but for the wrong
reasons. For example, I'd already identified problems with
eating a lot of wheat-based stuff, like pasta and bread, and
had reduced that a lot. I thought I had some kind of wheat
intolerance or sensitivity, as the paleolithic diet folk
suggest many of us still have. And liking the paleolithic
diet idea, I'd been shifting in general towards a greater
variety of veg and less processed food in general.

I was simply being too specific. I'd identified one high
glycemic carbohydrate as bad for me in quantity, but for the
wrong reasons. All of them are bad for me -- unless I happen
to taking a lot of exercise.

However, it was becoming clear that the paleolithic diet
idea wasn't solving all of my diet-related problems.

My doc thought I was fine because my Hb1Ac blood tests were
in the normal range. But they were in the normal range
because I had already shifted my diet towards the kind of
diet which brings the Hb1Ac (blood glycation) test into
normal range for a type 2 diabetic!

I got diagnosed by buying a cheap 10 quid blood glucose
meter and plotting my food response blood glucose graphs. A
large glass of orange juice (the kitchen equivalent of the
GP's glucose tolerance test) would send me up to a BG of
12. That's securely diagnostic. But since I never visit my
doc within an hour of a meal or a large glass of orange
juice, and I was already keeping my Hb1Ac low by diet, he
would never have spotted my diabetes until I started
pissing sugar.

Luckily I'm a hypochondriac and a gadget freak. "Wow, a
blood glucose meter for 10 quid! Must have one!". I've still
got quite a lot of functioning pancreas left, and with care
can probably keep it that way.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Alan Dicey said:

Roger Curtis wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been a type 1 [insulin dependant ] diabetic for
over 10 years and it has NOT interfered with my walking
in any way.

No need to play about with your recommended diet to any
great degree except you may want to take a little extra
carbohydrate before you start, to take account of the
extra energy you are going to expend.

Thing to remember is to ALWAYS carry spare carbohydrate
and a blood glucose monitoring kit. Check your blood
glucose every 2 to 3 hours during the walk and whenever
you suspect a hypo coming on. If your blood glucose has
fallen too low i.e. a hypo - get some carbohydrate in
PDQ. Doing this monitoring should prevent hypo's and
will also enable you to prevent the blood glucose rising
too high by building up a history of what works for you
in terms of food intake and energy expended. As you gain
experience you may feel confident enough to cut back
slightly on the monitoring.

Quoted message said:

However, as a type II, you have a different set of
problems. From your description you are controlling it by
diet alone, no drugs and certainly no insulin. In which
case you are almost certainly immune from the effect of
hypo's - but not totally: I still recall with some wry
amusement coming down off the Glyders with a party of four
friends after a strenuous day (Bristly Ridge etc). At a
stop one of them complained of feeling light-headed and
having tingly lips - I urged him strongly to eat something
(recognising the symptoms from my own newly experienced
hypos), but he would have none of it. We set off and
suddenly he literally fell over; in retrospect it was
comical, but at the time we were running out of light and I
was anxious to get off the hill. He had suffered a hypo,
simply through having an overstrenuous day (at least, he
has shown no signs since then of diabetic symptoms).

Yup. I already know from past experience that I need an
emergency store of fast carbohydrate -- which is NOT a treat
to be consumed at the summit! -- to prevent a hypo. I get
about half an hour's warning that I need to eat before I
faint. Happens rarely, but when it does there's no escape
except food.

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure how Type II's need to modify their diet for
walking: I would get as much advice as you can from your
diabetic support team (diabetic specialist nurse,
consultant, etc) since they know their stuff and your case.
You will need to boost your carbohydrate intake to
compensate for the effort exerted during the walk; but diet-
control of type II is all about getting your average blood
sugar down to avoid the long-term complications. So it may
not matter too much if you over-eat for the occasional day
when walking, as long as your average diet is well
controlled. And the diabetic team should be happy that you
are exercising.

The great thing these days are the light portable blood
glucose meters. Not too big an addition to the rucksack. I
can have even more fun on a walk conducting science
experiments :-)

The important thing to discover is how much stoking up in
advance I can do, how much in advance, and with what,
compared to snacking on the hoof.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

I got diagnosed by buying a cheap 10 quid blood glucose
meter and plotting my food response blood glucose graphs.
A large glass of orange juice (the kitchen equivalent of
the GP's glucose tolerance test) would send me up to a BG
of 12. That's securely diagnostic.

Someone else mentioned light-headedness and tingly lips. Is
that a classic sign of low blood sugar? I've had that
sensation on numerous occasions and never known quite what
it was - except that eating seemed to help. I wonder now...
maybe I'll invest in one of those ten quid meters and see
what I can see. Hmmm. Interesting.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Chris Malcolm said:

The great thing these days are the light portable blood
glucose meters. Not too big an addition to the rucksack. I
can have even more fun on a walk conducting science
experiments :-)

Abso-fraggin-lutely! I simply can't imagine how difficult
the daily management of diabetes must have been when all you
had were colour-sticks, or earlier, testing kits that
involved test-tubes and cooking. The Medisense (or whatever)
meter allows me to get feedback on my condition on the hill,
at the pub, at work, at home - all the time. Using it I can
do a fair approximation to what the pancreas used to do for
me automatically - "flying manually" since the autopilot has
failed, as it were.

Boooze is the luxury I allow myself, having foresworn
chocolate, sweets and the like after my diagnosis. It
does present challenges, though: all booze contains sugar
and gives you a high spike; but one of the effects of
alcohol (as I understand it) is to stop the liver
delivering its stored glucose, so you must have enough
carbohydrate in the gut
(i.e. have eaten enough stodge) to carry you over until the
liver comes onstream again (when it has finished
processing the alcohol).

Quoted message said:

The important thing to discover is how much stoking up in
advance I can do, how much in advance, and with what,
compared to snacking on the hoof.

Yes, and it's different for everybody, we should all monitor
enough to keep a good appreciation of how our bodys react -
but it is not a trivial task...

I take Fruisli bars or Traidcraft Geobars as a standby -
sugar for fast relief plus cereal carbohydrate for longterm
top-up. Wholefood shops usually have a selection of fruit
bars (Tropical Wholefoods Fruit Bars, Survival Foods Hikers
Energy Bars, etc.) that have a similar effect (fruit sugar
is slower than refined sugar).

Fran said:

Someone else mentioned light-headedness and tingly lips.
Is that a classic sign of low blood sugar? I've had that
sensation on numerous occasions and never known quite what
it was - except that eating seemed to help. I wonder
now... maybe I'll invest in one of those ten quid meters
and see what I can see. Hmmm. Interesting.

That - would be me. It is one of my warning signs - things
that I as a type I have to take seriously. Be aware that the
meters may be cheap, but for each test you need a test
strip, and a pack of 50 strips may cost more than your
meter. I measure four times a day, on average - - -

"Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

I got diagnosed by buying a cheap 10 quid blood glucose
meter and plotting my food response blood glucose
graphs. A large glass of orange juice (the kitchen
equivalent of the GP's glucose tolerance test) would
send me up to a BG of 12. That's securely diagnostic.

Someone else mentioned light-headedness and tingly lips.
Is that a classic sign of low blood sugar? I've had that
sensation on numerous occasions and never known quite what
it was - except that eating seemed to help. I wonder
now... maybe I'll invest in one of those ten quid meters
and see what I can see. Hmmm. Interesting.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

there are lots of signs - mine include a clammy sweating;
impaired decision making eg can't make up my mind; hunger
pangs; weak knees. Haven't had tingly lips but feeling light
headed is. Thing to be aware of if you are diabetic is that
the signs are only indicators and do not always mean blood
sugar is getting low. Similarly blood sugar can fall and you
may not get an indication -although less likely] .For a
diabetic doing the check is important so the correct action
is taken. Long term consistently high levels cause many
serious complications. Of course very low blood sugar levels
can result in rapid onset of a coma.

I'm not so sure a non-diabetic needs a glucose meter. Taking
on food when not strictly necessary is only likely to result
in an expanded waistline if done too frequently as the body
is able to cope with the extra carbohydrate!

Roger C

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

I'm not so sure a non-diabetic needs a glucose meter.
Taking on food when not strictly necessary is only likely
to result in an expanded waistline if done too frequently
as the body is able to cope with the extra carbohydrate!

I agree that it wouldn't normally be a necessity; however
since I can relate to the symptoms mentioned by other folk,
it wouldn't do any harm to check on a regular basis over,
say, a couple of weeks, to find out if it's worth bothering
the mediquack with.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Fran said:

Someone else mentioned light-headedness and tingly lips.
Is that a classic sign of low blood sugar? I've had that
sensation on numerous occasions and never known quite
what it was - except that eating seemed to help. I
wonder now... maybe I'll invest in one of those ten quid
meters and see what I can see. Hmmm. Interesting.

That - would be me. It is one of my warning signs - things
that I as a type I have to take seriously. Be aware that
the meters may be cheap, but for each test you need a test
strip, and a pack of 50 strips may cost more than your
meter. I measure four times a day, on average - - -

However it would mean that I could test on a regular basis
over a couple of weeks or even a month, especially if the
light- headedness and tingly lips turn up to join the party.
I've had my sugar levels checked in the past, but it's
always been a one- off and the results have been
inconclusive. Maybe a 'course' of checking would reveal more
useful information. If it turns out that I have no problem
in that regard, then I still have to find out what causes
the symptoms. We shall see. Thanks, Alan.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Fran said:

However it would mean that I could test on a regular basis
over a couple of weeks or even a month, especially if the
light- headedness and tingly lips turn up to join the
party. I've had my sugar levels checked in the past, but
it's always been a one- off and the results have been
inconclusive. Maybe a 'course' of checking would reveal
more useful information. If it turns out that I have no
problem in that regard, then I still have to find out what
causes the symptoms. We shall see. Thanks, Alan.

As a diabetic I try to keep a model of how my condition
responds to various inputs, as many things affect it -
exercise, temperature, type and combinations of food and
drink taken, etc. Normally a non-diabetic would not expect
to see abnormally low blood sugar (below 4 mmol/l) as the
bodys regulatory system ensures that glucose is delivered
from stores in the liver. (I Think). One circumstance that
can give rise to low blood sugar is being drunk; alcohol
interferes with the livers ability to release stored sugar.
Thats why hypo symptoms are a lot like being drunk (cue
Douglas Adams). IIRC. The usual diagnostic test for diabetes
is elevated blood sugar (above 8 mmol/l). If you get a high
reading, say, two hours after a meal, then a doctors
appointment is indicated.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

If you get a high reading, say, two hours after a meal,
then a doctors appointment is

Noted, with thanks.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

In article <40cf80f9$0$899$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-
reader02.plus.net>, Alan Dicey <[email hidden]-
online.co.uk> writes

Quoted message said:

However, as a type II, you have a different set of
problems. From your description you are controlling it by
diet alone, no drugs and certainly no insulin. In which
case you are almost certainly immune from the effect of
hypo's - but not totally: I still recall with some wry
amusement coming down off the Glyders with a party of
four friends after a strenuous day (Bristly Ridge etc).
At a stop one of them complained of feeling light-headed
and having tingly lips - I urged him strongly to eat
something (recognising the symptoms from my own newly
experienced hypos),

As a diet only diabetic the chances of your having a hypo
are very low - provided you don't do anything daft. I've
been a NIDD - Type 2 for ten years and at one point my GP
put me on half a Gliclazide tablet a day ( we aim for
perfection she said ) I just observe the dietary
requirements but I do have the occasional treat. Never
having had a hypo I have on the other hand had the
experience of running out of energy, This has happened quite
quickly. Expressly for these occurrences I carry mini Mars
bars and eat one if I feel a bit drained. I must say that
the number of times this has happened over the time I've
been diabetic is only about three.

The classic was when Paul Saunders and I went on a walk and
after about half a mile I suddenly became totally drained. I
ate what few bits I had to eat and had a rest after which I
felt refreshed. We packed the walk in then and there.

Don't worry about your condition, eat normally but observing
the stuff you are not allowed to eat.

Enjoy your walking.
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul
Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bill Grey might be able to give you some advice in that
area, why don't you email him? I notice he always takes
a banana.

That's in case you get violent :-)

I always carry Dextrose tablets. They are glucose tablets
and are very nice :-)

BTW another walk is due surely!
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Chris Malcolm
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I got diagnosed by buying a cheap 10 quid blood glucose
meter and plotting my food response blood glucose graphs. A
large glass of orange juice (the kitchen equivalent of the
GP's glucose tolerance test) would send me up to a BG of
12. That's securely diagnostic. But since I never visit my
doc within an hour of a meal or a large glass of orange
juice, and I was already keeping my Hb1Ac low by diet, he
would never have spotted my diabetes until I started
pissing sugar.

The optician hinted I had diabetes when I found that my new
glasses weren't right when I tried them. He checked my
prescription and found the right lens off the mark. He
reordered the specs and then when tried the new pair I
complained that the left lens wasn't correct. He frowned
and asked if I was diabetic to which I replied "No!"..I
visited the doctor on a different purpose and after having
my usual sugar loaded breakfast, choccy biccies at
elevenses ,then lunch at 1.00pm. I went to the surgery
where they did a blood test abiut three quarters of an hour
after my lunch. My Blood sugar gave reading of 17.3mmols. I
was then told what to leave out of my diet and come back in
a week. After observing the new rules of eating my blood
sugar was then down to
5.2mmols.

Keeping the figure down hasn't been a problem. I used to
have to pay for my prescriptions as I was on diet only
control. When my GP put me on 1/2 a tablet a day, my
prescriptions were then free !
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗