increasing distance?

In article said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

It appears you're making the common beginner mistake of
training at too fast a pace. Run at a slower pace. Gradually
increase training distance -- each week, add a slight
increase to the distance of your long run.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"Ronald H. Nicholson Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

I just looked at some of my old running logs and realized
I've been stuck at the roughly the same maximum training
run distance for 30 years. Almost all my training runs are
in the range of 3 to 4.75 miles. Increases in my fitness
level seems to improve my speed (from 10 up to 7
min/mi pace) and the number of days per week I can
comfortably run (from 2 or 3, to 5 or 6); but my
maximum training run distance seems stuck just below 5
miles, by which time either my legs are bonking out,
my knees are starting to hurt, or my heart rate is
going above 90% maximal. I can hike 10 miles, no
problem. Once a year, I run a 12k race (Bay-to-
Breakers), but often need several days of rest +
aspirin to recover.

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

Thanks.

All you really need to do is slow down a little and use your
left over energy to run that extra distance.

"Ronald H. Nicholson Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

I just looked at some of my old running logs and realized
I've been stuck at the roughly the same maximum training
run distance for 30 years. Almost all my training runs are
in the range of 3 to 4.75 miles. Increases in my fitness
level seems to improve my speed (from 10 up to 7
min/mi pace) and the number of days per week I can
comfortably run (from 2 or 3, to 5 or 6); but my
maximum training run distance seems stuck just below 5
miles, by which time either my legs are bonking out,
my knees are starting to hurt, or my heart rate is
going above 90% maximal. I can hike 10 miles, no
problem. Once a year, I run a 12k race (Bay-to-
Breakers), but often need several days of rest +
aspirin to recover.

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

Thanks.

All you really need to do is slow down a little and use your
left over energy to run that extra distance.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald H.

Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

It appears you're making the common beginner mistake of
training at too fast a pace.

He's been running steadily since you were a toddler!
Beginner?!? ;-)

(however, I agree with your thoughts - the OP has to slow
down on the longer runs, at least, based on his description
of what happens on them).

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
down constantly."

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald H.

Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

It appears you're making the common beginner mistake of
training at too fast a pace.

He's been running steadily since you were a toddler!
Beginner?!? ;-)

(however, I agree with your thoughts - the OP has to slow
down on the longer runs, at least, based on his description
of what happens on them).

cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see putting other people
down constantly."

In article said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald H.

Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

It appears you're making the common beginner mistake of
training at too fast a pace.

He's been running steadily since you were a toddler!
Beginner?!? ;-)

Not "beginner", "beginner mistakes".

He's a very naughty man for making them (-;

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald H.

Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

It appears you're making the common beginner mistake of
training at too fast a pace. Run at a slower pace.
Gradually increase training distance -- each week, add a
slight increase to the distance of your long run.

Cheers,

Instead of going out and waiting until you feel tired at 4
miles and quitting, you should plan a course of 6 or 7
miles and run that. Maybe it would help if you go out and
back. You know you can run three miles easily. Then you're
stuck three miles out and have to run back. This kind of
planning will force you to adjust your pace to what you can
do over a given longer distance. But first you must
establish a personal rule that you will always finish a run
without walking.

eddy eagle said:

Instead of going out and waiting until you feel tired at 4
miles and quitting, you should plan a course of 6 or 7
miles and run that. Maybe it would help if you go out and
back. You know you can run three miles easily. Then you're
stuck three miles out and have to run back. This kind of
planning will force you to adjust your pace to what you
can do over a given longer distance. But first you must
establish a personal rule that you will always finish a
run without walking.

In addition, I'd say your return leg should be *no slower*
than your outward leg. Keeping that in mind really helps to
concentrate your mind on maintaining a sustainable pace.

Tim

--
Remove the obvious to reply by email.

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

In addition to pacing yourself for a longer haul, by slowing
down: You can stop or reduce your running for the week prior
to, and after, the attempt You can take a one minute walk
break after each 10 minutes of running You can walk even
more and gradually reduce the amount walked over time. You
could run an easy mile, take a walk break, do your regular
run, take a walk break and then do another easy mile. Do a
longest run no more than once every two weeks, increasing
less than 20 percent per attempt After ramping up, take a
month without longer runs, to cement your recovery. After
the Breakers run, do some walking to speed recovery. For the
knees, this is a longer subject; however, you could
knead/masssage the quads, do short-arc one-legged squats to
build up your VMO/medial quad, building to two sets of 60
reps. Also, resist overstriding and low cadence when you
tire. Do not fully extend the knee prior to impact, e.g.
Experiment with different shoes, since you may discover some
pleasant surprises.

Quoted message said:

I just looked at some of my old running logs and realized
I've been stuck at the roughly the same maximum training
run distance for 30 years. Almost all my training runs are
in the range of 3 to 4.75 miles. Increases in my fitness
level seems to improve my speed (from 10 up to 7 min/mi
pace) and the number of days per week I can comfortably
run (from 2 or 3, to 5 or 6); but my maximum training run
distance seems stuck just below 5 miles, by which time
either my legs are bonking out, my knees are starting to
hurt, or my heart rate is going above 90% maximal. I can
hike 10 miles, no problem. Once a year, I run a 12k race
(Bay-to-Breakers), but often need several days of rest +
aspirin to recover.

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

Thanks.

eddy eagle wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald H.

Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

It appears you're making the common beginner mistake of
training at too fast a pace. Run at a slower pace.
Gradually increase training

distance -- each

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

week, add a slight increase to the distance of your
long run.

Cheers,

Instead of going out and waiting until you feel tired at 4
miles and quitting, you should plan a course of 6 or 7
miles and run that. Maybe it would help if you go out and
back. You know you can run three miles easily. Then you're
stuck three miles out and have to run back. This kind of
planning will force you to adjust your pace to what you can
do over a given longer distance. But first you must
establish a personal rule that you will always finish a run
without walking.

Actually mixing running and walking when beginning to do
longer runs can be fantastic. People who run ultras or run
hilly trails already know the benefit of mixing walking and
running. It can have a lower intensity interval effect,
allowing you to spend alot more time on your feet and
allowing your body to adjust slowly to longer distances. I'm
sure for purists this approach is heresy. But if you
actually try it, you may find it works great, especially for
large-framed people or overweight people getting back into
shape. It depends on what your heart rate is when running
easily. If your slow running pace heart rate is still to
high, then on longer runs this can be too high an intensity
to sustain, and walking for a couple of mins every 10 mins
or so can help you keep going longer and will give you that
interval effect. It worked great for me when getting back
into shape this January. I could do 12 milers no problem by
running for 7 mins and walking for 3 mins. Constantly
pushing yourself to run when you feel lousy is not the best
way to train. If you *really* feel like walking then walk,
then when you feel like running again, run.

- Tony

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

No, just start running 20 a day right now.

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

starting to hurt, or my heart rate is going above 90%
maximal.

For a long run 90% of max is too high. Start (after warmup)
at 70% and let it go as high as 80%. If you ever get above
80% slow down. As you have or will see your HR will increase
a little if your pacing is correct. I am assuming that you
are familiar with your HRM and you are somewhat close in
your max HR estimation.

Steve W.

"SwStudio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ronald H.

Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

[snip]

Quoted message said:

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

It appears you're making the common beginner mistake of
training at too fast a pace.

He's been running steadily since you were a toddler!
Beginner?!? ;-)

Well, that was a classic Donny Boy response. Condescending
without a cause to do so.

Quoted message said:

(however, I agree with your thoughts - the OP has to slow
down on the longer runs, at least, based on his
description of what happens on them).

We do not know his age other than that he is over 30. Maybe
he is just getting old. Maybe he is overweight. For me, 10
lbs makes a huge difference to how my knees feel. A max
distance of 5 miles is really short. If he is neither really
old nor overweight then my guess is that something caused
him to have a really bad running form.

I do agree that his best bet is to run slower. I suggest
that he gets Daniels' book and consults the VDOT charts to
get a suggestion on how fast to do the long runs.

Quoted message said:

cheers,

[email hidden] (eddy eagle) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[deleted]

Quoted message said:

over a given longer distance. But first you must establish
a personal rule that you will always finish a run without
walking.

Wow, macho man rule of running! A rule like yours is
potentially dangerous. If you have to stop you should stop.
Nothing is worse than having to stop running for an extended
period of time due to injury. I mean what are you trying to
prove? If you frequently have to use supreme will power
during your runs, you probably need more planning.

In article said:

Quoted message said:

He's been running steadily since you were a toddler!
Beginner?!? ;-)

Well, that was a classic Donny Boy response. Condescending
without a cause to do so.

Welcome back.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Run farther.

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ronald H. Nicholson Jr. said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

In addition to pacing yourself for a longer haul, by
slowing down: You can stop or reduce your running for the
week prior to, and after, the attempt

Why would you stop running the week prior to the
attempt? In a week you will lose some fitness
(assuming one is not overtrained in which case it
would not matter).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After ramping up, take a month without longer runs, to
cement your

recovery.

Why a month? A week or maybe less should be
fine for recovery.

Quoted message said:

After the Breakers run, do some walking to speed recovery.
For the knees, this is a longer subject; however, you
could knead/masssage the quads, do short-arc one-legged
squats to build up your VMO/medial

quad,

Quoted message said:

building to two sets of 60 reps.

60 reps? Please, I cannot see any gain from this
large volume of reps. I would need to see some
valid evidence.

Also, resist overstriding and low cadence

Quoted message said:

when you tire. Do not fully extend the knee prior to
impact, e.g. Experiment with different shoes, since you
may discover some pleasant surprises.

Quoted message said:

I just looked at some of my old running logs and
realized I've been stuck at the roughly the same maximum
training run distance for 30 years. Almost all my
training runs are in the range of 3 to 4.75 miles.
Increases in my fitness level seems to improve my speed
(from 10 up to 7 min/mi pace) and the number of days per
week I can comfortably run (from 2 or 3, to 5 or 6); but
my maximum training run distance seems stuck just below
5 miles, by which time either my legs are bonking out,
my knees are starting to hurt, or my heart rate is going
above 90% maximal. I can hike 10 miles, no problem. Once
a year, I run a 12k race (Bay-to-Breakers), but often
need several days of rest + aspirin to recover.

How to break out of this rut and potentially train for
longer runs?

Thanks.

Screw the HRM, if you cannot talk during the run you are
going too fast.

"Steve W." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote
in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

starting to hurt, or my heart rate is going above 90%
maximal.

For a long run 90% of max is too high. Start (after
warmup) at 70% and let it go as high as 80%. If you ever
get above 80% slow down. As you have or will see your HR
will increase a little if your pacing is correct. I am
assuming that you are familiar with your HRM and you are
somewhat close in your max HR estimation.

Steve W.

Sam wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Screw the HRM, if you cannot talk during the run you are
going too fast.

Actually HRMs are great to keep you out of the middle range
between the aerobic and lactate threshold (LT) area. A few
years ago I came across a great article (which I can't find
right now) about training heart rate zones for cycling, and
basically it recommended avoiding training in the effort
level area just below your LT area. The reasoning is that if
you spend alot of time training in this zone it will stress
your body greatly without producing much extra capacity. To
train your LT you Train at or above your LT with intervals
or tempo or fartlek, and you will get faster with improved
endurance. During your other training, the effort level
should be enough below the LT level that it does not stress
your system as much but gives the base aerobic benefit. This
system got my in the best shape of my life and I still use
it. for me it means avoiding the heart rate range of 150 to
165 during the bulk of my training. When doing efforts, I go
at 165 to 175, and when doing my base training I go at 135
to 150....

- Tony

Quoted message said:

"Steve W." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Ronald H. Nicholson Jr.) wrote in
message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are there any tricks to increasing the distance one
can run?

starting to hurt, or my heart rate is going above 90%
maximal.

For a long run 90% of max is too high. Start (after
warmup) at 70% and let it go as high as 80%. If you ever
get above 80% slow down. As you have or will see your HR
will increase a little if your pacing is correct. I am
assuming that you are familiar with your HRM and you are
somewhat close in your max HR estimation.

Steve W.