Power Racing

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shibumi
I'm currently just outside the hour for a '25'. A disk wheel will probably make all the difference. But how about trying to use a Power Tap instead? I really have a problem with pacing by HR, and reckon I tend to go too slow in the early part of the race. With a PT I might be able to improve my performance by keeping my output at a steady 340W (or whatever).

Anyone else TT with a PT? Do you get a power read-out on your bars? Will it be better value than a disk wheel?

i've TTed with a PT. i find the pacing aspect very useful, so that i can measure my effort correctly.

as you're rightly concerned about the aero aspects of what i assume is likely to be an Open Pro (or similar rim) laced to your PT, you've got a few options:

1) lace an aero deep-section (40+ mm) rim to your hub (or get a second hub for doing this)

2) use something like CH-Aero wheel cover (which i think can be purchased from Excel Sports -- the only place i've seen one, i have no affiliation with the company). the wheel cover give the appearance of a disc, and be almost as aerodynamic

ric

Ric - when you pace w/ the PT do you display instantaneous or avg watts?

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by 9606
Ric - when you pace w/ the PT do you display instantaneous or avg watts?

instantaneous, although i occasionally flick to average to see what that is

Bearing in mind that I don't even adjust my own gears, this lacing thing passes straight over me. I'd be looking to buy a wheel with the PT, 9 speed campag cassette, etc all built up. Is that possible, or would I have to buy all the bits separately and then find a wheel builder? And cost - around GBP1000?

Have you had a look at an ergomo? http://www.ergomo-usa.com/ with one of these units you'll be able to use whatever wheel you want. Same deal if you already own a polar 710/720, the power sensor is a cheap way to get into training with power, just make sure its installed correctly and don't expect it to be as accurate as the others.

I am in the middle of a wheel build for the PT.

I think you will struggle to build a reasonably light and aero wheel. The hub weighs a ton. But worse, you are stuck with no fewer than 24 spokes. And you won't want to build a training wheel with that. Maybe at 28 spokes you could build an aero wheel, but it would sure be heavy anyway. Worth it? Who knows.

But your original question was, I think, PT or aero wheel (which I can't answer).

my training wheel is a 24 spoke PT, as is (more than) one of the people i coach. i weigh 68 - 70 kg, other person around 90 kg.

PT hub is about 150 g heavier than a shimano or campag hub. in the grand scheme of things (i.e., total mass, which is all that counts) it doesn't matter a jot.

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Aztec
I am in the middle of a wheel build for the PT.

I think you will struggle to build a reasonably light and aero wheel. The hub weighs a ton. But worse, you are stuck with no fewer than 24 spokes. And you won't want to build a training wheel with that. Maybe at 28 spokes you could build an aero wheel, but it would sure be heavy anyway. Worth it? Who knows.

But your original question was, I think, PT or aero wheel (which I can't answer).

They have a hub with less than 24 holes. I have the Bontrager race light and I think it is 16 bladed spokes if memory serves me correctly (it is at the most 20 spoke).

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shibumi
I'm currently just outside the hour for a '25'. A disk wheel will probably make all the difference. But how about trying to use a Power Tap instead? I really have a problem with pacing by HR, and reckon I tend to go too slow in the early part of the race. With a PT I might be able to improve my performance by keeping my output at a steady 340W (or whatever).

Anyone else TT with a PT? Do you get a power read-out on your bars? Will it be better value than a disk wheel?

The PT (or another PM) will be of much more value than a disc. Use the CH Aero cover if you get a PT. I use instantaneous wattage but switch a few times a race to avg.

Also, unless you are really big (and strong) don't expect to do 340w. That power equates to more like a 53-55 min 40k (25mi) asssuming you are 80 kg (176 lbs). If you are doing just over an hour and weigh 80 kg you are probably doing more like 280w.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by J-Law
They have a hub with less than 24 holes. I have the Bontrager race light and I think it is 16 bladed spokes if memory serves me correctly (it is at the most 20 spoke).

This is not a PT hub per se, but a Bontrager one, as the shell is made by them. It's only available as a complete wheel.

You can fit bladed aero spokes to a normal PT hub, if you use Sapim CX-Rays. I think DT also do some (bladed spokes that fit normal hubs).

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shibumi
Bearing in mind that I don't even adjust my own gears, this lacing thing passes straight over me. I'd be looking to buy a wheel with the PT, 9 speed campag cassette, etc all built up. Is that possible, or would I have to buy all the bits separately and then find a wheel builder? And cost - around GBP1000?

it's probably a good idea to learn how to do a few mechanical things on your bike, such as adjusting gears. that way if they go wrong, you can fix it immediately rather than waiting on a shop. gears aren't difficult to do, if i can do it anyone can (DIY and mechanically inept).

as regards lacing a wheel, that's a pretty specialist job. PT wheels can be purchased pre built or as a hub. Your local bike shop will be able to build it into a wheel.

if you're interested in a PT give me a shout. Best UK prices!

Ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by J-Law
The PT (or another PM) will be of much more value than a disc. Use the CH Aero cover if you get a PT. I use instantaneous wattage but switch a few times a race to avg.

Also, unless you are really big (and strong) don't expect to do 340w. That power equates to more like a 53-55 min 40k (25mi) asssuming you are 80 kg (176 lbs). If you are doing just over an hour and weigh 80 kg you are probably doing more like 280w.

the wheel cover, or having it built into a deep section aero rim are good ideas.

your power will be more dependent upon your height (than mass) and the equipment you use. For e.g., a colleague does 53 mins for 40km, whereas last one i did was 59. Give or take a few watts we put out the same power. i ride a standard road bike, he uses aero everything.

ric

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've decided not to go down the power route. The options seem expensive and (to me) complicated eg to get a power tap I have to arrange to get it built into a wheel, and then I have to get an aero cover sent over from a company in the US. There seems to be a lot of mechanical problems looking at some of the other threads, and potential innacuracies if I go for Polar (and I know I could never get that to work).

Instead I've analysed all of my '25' rides over the last year or so, using the downloads from the Polar 720i. I've looked ay my HR patterns, and have established some targets which I will use to pace myself. eg I should be hitting 160 bpm within 2 miles, not exceeding 175bpm unless within the last 2/3 miles, etc.

I've also ordered a disc wheel...

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Shibumi
eg to get a power tap I have to arrange to get it built into a wheel

it comes ready built as a wheel, in certain configurations. i thought i posted that? even if the configurations weren't the one(s) you wanted you just take it to your favourite bike shop and they build it in a day or so.

shout me if you need to know more,

ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by J-Law

Also, unless you are really big (and strong) don't expect to do 340w. That power equates to more like a 53-55 min 40k (25mi) asssuming you are 80 kg (176 lbs). If you are doing just over an hour and weigh 80 kg you are probably doing more like 280w.

Yes, you're right, I don't put out 340W. From some indoor measurements, I reckon I'm putting out:

10 miles: 305W
25 miles: 270W

These are fairly close to your figures as I am actually 80Kg. I do seem to have a very aero position compared to other riders, so this is probably why I'm closer to the hour than the 270W suggests. It does indicate that I lose a lot going from 10 to 25 miles, so I clearly need to improve my endurance here.

Ric,

Do you know if the PT hub will transmit through the CH Aero wheel cover? This would be my only main concern. To me the pacing aspect of the PT (not to mention the benchmarking and analysis part) is probably much more important than a disk wheel. If, on the other hand, I could get the best of both worlds using the PT and the CH Aero cover, I'd be ecstatic. Also, anyone know how long it takes to remove the covers (for a road race right after)??

Thanks!!!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by germanboxers
Ric,

Do you know if the PT hub will transmit through the CH Aero wheel cover? This would be my only main concern. To me the pacing aspect of the PT (not to mention the benchmarking and analysis part) is probably much more important than a disk wheel. If, on the other hand, I could get the best of both worlds using the PT and the CH Aero cover, I'd be ecstatic. Also, anyone know how long it takes to remove the covers (for a road race right after)??

Thanks!!!

I've *not* tried this myself personally, but colleagues tell me it works just fine. can't see any reason why it wouldn't work.

not sure how long it takes to remove a cover?

ric

Removing a CH Aero cover:

1) take off the wheel
2) take off the cassette
3) unscrew the 8 flange screw/nuts that hold the two halves of the cover together
4) replace the cassette
5) reinstall wheel

IOW, probably about a 15 min job tops (provided that you're not distracted talking to your buddies about how your TT went <g>😉.

Quoted post said:

Originally p
5B4
osted by Shibumi
Thanks for all the suggestions. I've decided not to go down the power route. The options seem expensive and (to me) complicated eg to get a power tap I have to arrange to get it built into a wheel, and then I have to get an aero cover sent over from a company in the US. There seems to be a lot of mechanical problems looking at some of the other threads, and potential innacuracies if I go for Polar (and I know I could never get that to work).

Instead I've analysed all of my '25' rides over the last year or so, using the downloads from the Polar 720i. I've looked ay my HR patterns, and have established some targets which I will use to pace myself. eg I should be hitting 160 bpm within 2 miles, not exceeding 175bpm unless within the last 2/3 miles, etc.

I've also ordered a disc wheel...

Hi Shibumi. Although I completely respect your decision not to 'go with power', this thread hasn't even begun to touch on the benefits of hraining this way. I already have a disc wheel, and it hasn't made a single appearance this year.
One big reason is that I'm not chasing after faster times every weekend, as my goals are related to my sustainable power output. Once those targets are reached, the times will follow. If they don't, I know that it's down to conditions beyond my control.
Other benefits of training with power include: accurate control of intensity (in races and training); early detection of overtraining; accurate assessment of training effectivenes; accurate measurement of 'form'; accurate assessment of relative strengths and weaknesses; ability to analyse demands of racing accurately and alter training to match etc.
These are just a few. Once you take all this into account, it doesn't seem so expensive!:-)
I, for one, will never go back to training and racing 'in the dark'.

Lindsay.