Medicating our problems away

Owen Lowe said:

I know this subject has been posted before, but I just
have to vent a little. The two clippings posted below are
from HeartCenterOnLine - a weekly email of heart-related
news bits.

I read articles frequently that promote medications for
all sorts of conditions. The articles are not just from
HeartCenterOnline, but mainstream newspapers and
magazines. If you high blood pressure or high cholesterol
then you merely have to visit your local doctor and walk
away with a prescription to solve all your problems. No
one wants to give up *anything* in order to work towards a
healthier body and quite possibly eliminate the conditions
above. Most of the society (USA) seems to have an excuse
for everything.

I fear that this mindset will (or has) become ingrained in
our medical professionals as well. Will doctors study non-
pharma methods that may achieve the desired results in
conjunction with the pharma path?

Quoted message said:

Prevent heart disease, avoid erection problems Apr 21
(Reuters Health) - Men with certain risk factors for
heart disease in mid-life -- such as obesity and high
cholesterol levels -- are also more likely to develop
erectile dysfunction many years later, new findings
indicate.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

"Patients may be more inclined to use (cholesterol-
lowering drugs) if they can prevent ED, as well as heart
disease," senior author Dr. Elizabeth Barrett-Connor,
from the University of California in San Diego, said in
a statement. "Now researchers should include erectile
dysfunction as an outcome in trials of" such drugs.

SNip

There are other methods to lower cholesterol that should
be tried before medicating, in my experience and opinion.
So the above man is now obese and has a lowered
cholesterol - who would care if he can get it up or not?
Maybe the good Dr. Barrett-Connor ought to prescribe the
patient a strict diet and exercise program prior to
medicating - at least then he

Ime, the 2PD approach works every time either with or
without exercise and it really isn't "strict" either.

Quoted message said:

&

Quoted message said:

Cholesterol reduction takes more than education Apr 22
(Reuters Health) - In a study of patients with heart
disease, a special educational program was not helpful
in lowering high cholesterol levels.

Dr. Judith H. Lichtman and colleagues, from Yale
University in New Haven, Connecticut, investigated
whether a nurse-based program, designed to educate
patients about cholesterol levels and encourage
partnerships with their physicians, could increase
the percentage of patients who achieved recommended
cholesterol levels.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

Although patients in the education program were more
likely to know the recommended cholesterol levels, they
were just as likely as others to actually achieve these
target levels, or not.

Moreover, the percentage of patients taking drugs like
Lipitor and Zocor-- well-established treatments for high
cholesterol--was similar in both groups

"Our findings suggest that patient empowerment
strategies through education, which have been shown to
be effective...for diseases such as diabetes mellitus
and heart failure, may be less effective" for conditions
without symptoms, like high cholesterol levels, the
authors conclude.

SNiP

Will the doctors who read the study or were involved in it
surmise that educating the patient isn't worth the bother?

Doctors surmise this not from such studies but from not
being reimbursed for the time they take for providing such
education.

Quoted message said:

Better to just medicate and get the numbers down to
the recommended numbers by expending the least time
and effort?

From a business view, it would be better. Physicians are not
as a general rule compensated at an hourly rate.

Quoted message said:

After my coronary blockage and hospital stay, I searched
and read til all hours of the night, educated myself and
then set out to do all I could to ensure my own future. As
a result my cardiologist removed me from the statin and
blood pressure meds due to the fantastic results. I ended
up losing 30 pounds in the process (6' and 175 lbs.) and
am working toward 10 lubs more (winter was a [censored]). He
even had to write a letter to my new internist explaining
why I wasn't taking anything other than a daily aspirin
and carrying my little vial of NitroQuick (unused since my
episode 15 months ago).

Good for you. It sounds like you were self-motivated.
Actually, your example illustrates the value of an
information source such as SMC for folks who are self-
motivated. So how did you lose the 30 lbs?

Quoted message said:

Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir here since most are
looking for education and clarification.

The choir plus some detractors who would like to shut down
one of the sources of information here at SMC ;-)

Quoted message said:

I'm just fed up with the attitude that we ought to just
pop a pill and all will be well with no effort or
sacrifice on our part.

Imho, eating less (and being a bit hungry most of the time)
is not a big sacrifice :-)

May God bless you for your contribution, in Christ's name.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Owen Lowe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I know this subject has been posted before, but I just
have to vent a little. The two clippings posted below are
from HeartCenterOnLine - a weekly email of heart-related
news bits.

I read articles frequently that promote medications for
all sorts of conditions. The articles are not just from
HeartCenterOnline, but mainstream newspapers and
magazines. If you high blood pressure or high cholesterol
then you merely have to visit your local doctor and walk
away with a prescription to solve all your problems. No
one wants to give up *anything* in order to work towards a
healthier body and quite possibly eliminate the conditions
above. Most of the society (USA) seems to have an excuse
for everything.

I fear that this mindset will (or has) become ingrained in
our medical professionals as well. Will doctors study non-
pharma methods that may achieve the desired results in
conjunction with the pharma path?

Quoted message said:

Prevent heart disease, avoid erection problems Apr 21
(Reuters Health) - Men with certain risk factors for
heart disease in mid-life -- such as obesity and high
cholesterol levels -- are also more likely to develop
erectile dysfunction many years later, new findings
indicate.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

"Patients may be more inclined to use (cholesterol-
lowering drugs) if they can prevent ED, as well as heart
disease," senior author Dr. Elizabeth Barrett-Connor,
from the University of California in San Diego, said in
a statement. "Now researchers should include erectile
dysfunction as an outcome in trials of" such drugs.

SNip

There are other methods to lower cholesterol that should
be tried before medicating, in my experience and opinion.
So the above man is now obese and has a lowered
cholesterol - who would care if he can get it up or not?
Maybe the good Dr. Barrett-Connor ought to prescribe the
patient a strict diet and exercise program prior to
medicating - at least then he

Quoted message said:

&

Quoted message said:

Cholesterol reduction takes more than education    Apr
22 (Reuters Health) - In a study of patients with heart
disease, a special educational program was not helpful
in lowering high cholesterol levels.

Dr. Judith H. Lichtman and colleagues, from Yale
University in New Haven, Connecticut, investigated
whether a nurse-based program, designed to educate
patients about cholesterol levels and encourage
partnerships with their physicians, could increase
the percentage of patients who achieved recommended
cholesterol levels.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

Although patients in the education program were more
likely to know the recommended cholesterol levels, they
were just as likely as others to actually achieve these
target levels, or not.

Moreover, the percentage of patients taking drugs like
Lipitor and Zocor-- well-established treatments for high
cholesterol--was similar in both groups

"Our findings suggest that patient empowerment
strategies through education, which have been shown to
be effective...for diseases such as diabetes mellitus
and heart failure, may be less effective" for conditions
without symptoms, like high cholesterol levels, the
authors conclude.

SNiP

Will the doctors who read the study or were involved in
it surmise that educating the patient isn't worth the
bother? Better to just medicate and get the numbers down
to the recommended numbers by expending the least time
and effort?

After my coronary blockage and hospital stay, I searched
and read til all hours of the night, educated myself and
then set out to do all I could to ensure my own future. As
a result my cardiologist removed me from the statin and
blood pressure meds due to the fantastic results. I ended
up losing 30 pounds in the process (6' and 175 lbs.) and
am working toward 10 lubs more (winter was a [censored]). He
even had to write a letter to my new internist explaining
why I wasn't taking anything other than a daily aspirin
and carrying my little vial of NitroQuick (unused since my
episode 15 months ago).

Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir here since most are
looking for education and clarification. I'm just fed up
with the attitude that we ought to just pop a pill and all
will be well with no effort or sacrifice on our part.

Salut Owen news.bbc.co.uk678811.stmOpen ↗

Zee

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Will the doctors who read the study or were involved in
it surmise that educating the patient isn't worth the
bother?

Doctors surmise this not from such studies but from not
being reimbursed for the time they take for providing such
education.

Quoted message said:

Better to just medicate and get the numbers down to the
recommended numbers by expending the least time and
effort?

From a business view, it would be better. Physicians are
not as a general rule compensated at an hourly rate.

Well from my perspective, paying $185 for a 10 minutes of
face-to-face with the doc (not counting the 40 minutes of
sitting in the exam room with the only visitor being the
nurse to take my BP and ask about current health conditions)
should certainly get me some quality, fully rounded medical
advice and treatment. But that's another touchy point.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After my coronary blockage and hospital stay, I searched
and read til all hours of the night, educated myself and
then set out to do all I could to ensure my own future.
As a result my cardiologist removed me from the statin
and blood pressure meds due to the fantastic results. I
ended up losing 30 pounds in the process (6' and 175
lbs.) and am working toward 10 lubs more (winter was a
[censored]). He even had to write a letter to my new
internist explaining why I wasn't taking anything other
than a daily aspirin and carrying my little vial of
NitroQuick (unused since my episode 15 months ago).

Good for you. It sounds like you were self-motivated.
Actually, your example illustrates the value of an
information source such as SMC for folks who are self-
motivated. So how did you lose the 30 lbs?

I follow a low-carb way of eating. Lots of green veggies (5-
6 servings/dy), meat, little by way of grains and stay away
from hydrogenated, processed, manufactured "food". I visit a
fast food joint about once every 6 months. With that, I do
moderate quantity of mid to high exertion exercise (3-4
days; 30 mins ea.; 160-170 HR) along with a moderately
active lifestyle.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just fed up with the attitude that we ought to just
pop a pill and all will be well with no effort or
sacrifice on our part.

Imho, eating less (and being a bit hungry most of the
time) is not a big sacrifice :-)

Yes, it's really not and the gains seem to be so beneficial
- though I must say I don't often feel hungry "most of the
time". I will feel tempted and deprived at times but if I'm
truly hungry there's plenty of things to eat or drink that
don't harm my health.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Will the doctors who read the study or were involved in
it surmise that educating the patient isn't worth the
bother?

Doctors surmise this not from such studies but from not
being reimbursed for the time they take for providing such
education.

Quoted message said:

Better to just medicate and get the numbers down to the
recommended numbers by expending the least time and
effort?

From a business view, it would be better. Physicians are
not as a general rule compensated at an hourly rate.

Well from my perspective, paying $185 for a 10 minutes of
face-to-face with the doc (not counting the 40 minutes of
sitting in the exam room with the only visitor being the
nurse to take my BP and ask about current health conditions)
should certainly get me some quality, fully rounded medical
advice and treatment. But that's another touchy point.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After my coronary blockage and hospital stay, I searched
and read til all hours of the night, educated myself and
then set out to do all I could to ensure my own future.
As a result my cardiologist removed me from the statin
and blood pressure meds due to the fantastic results. I
ended up losing 30 pounds in the process (6' and 175
lbs.) and am working toward 10 lubs more (winter was a
[censored]). He even had to write a letter to my new
internist explaining why I wasn't taking anything other
than a daily aspirin and carrying my little vial of
NitroQuick (unused since my episode 15 months ago).

Good for you. It sounds like you were self-motivated.
Actually, your example illustrates the value of an
information source such as SMC for folks who are self-
motivated. So how did you lose the 30 lbs?

I follow a low-carb way of eating. Lots of green veggies (5-
6 servings/dy), meat, little by way of grains and stay away
from hydrogenated, processed, manufactured "food". I visit a
fast food joint about once every 6 months. With that, I do
moderate quantity of mid to high exertion exercise (3-4
days; 30 mins ea.; 160-170 HR) along with a moderately
active lifestyle.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just fed up with the attitude that we ought to just
pop a pill and all will be well with no effort or
sacrifice on our part.

Imho, eating less (and being a bit hungry most of the
time) is not a big sacrifice :-)

Yes, it's really not and the gains seem to be so beneficial
- though I must say I don't often feel hungry "most of the
time". I will feel tempted and deprived at times but if I'm
truly hungry there's plenty of things to eat or drink that
don't harm my health.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(fresh~horses) said:

Salut Owen

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk678811.stmOpen ↗

As a layman, I find it frustrating reading such articles. I
guess it boils down to individuals react differently to the
same treatments - what works for one may not work or may be
harmful for another.

On the subject of using meds for treating non-
bacterial/viral/pain conditions - such as high-cholesterol -
my feeling is that something in our diet, environment or
lifestyle is causing our bodies to go awry. If, indeed,
cholesterol levels are related to heart disease, something
is going on in human history that's a relatively new
development. Let's look to solving the problem's source
instead of taking medications to force the body to comply.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(fresh~horses) said:

Salut Owen

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk678811.stmOpen ↗

As a layman, I find it frustrating reading such articles. I
guess it boils down to individuals react differently to the
same treatments - what works for one may not work or may be
harmful for another.

On the subject of using meds for treating non-
bacterial/viral/pain conditions - such as high-cholesterol -
my feeling is that something in our diet, environment or
lifestyle is causing our bodies to go awry. If, indeed,
cholesterol levels are related to heart disease, something
is going on in human history that's a relatively new
development. Let's look to solving the problem's source
instead of taking medications to force the body to comply.

Owen Lowe said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

(fresh~horses) said:

Salut Owen

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

news.bbc.co.uk678811.stmOpen ↗

As a layman, I find it frustrating reading such articles.
I guess it boils down to individuals react differently to
the same treatments - what works for one may not work or
may be harmful for another.

Yes, YMMV.

Quoted message said:

On the subject of using meds for treating non-
bacterial/viral/pain conditions - such as high-cholesterol
- my feeling is that something in our diet, environment or
lifestyle is causing our bodies to go awry.

The top two things on my list are overeating and aging.
A lot can be done about the former though not much on
the latter.

Quoted message said:

If, indeed, cholesterol levels are related to heart
disease, something is going on in human history that's a
relatively new development.

Same top two things.

Quoted message said:

Let's look to solving the problem's source instead of
taking medications to force the body to comply.

Imho, medications are a bridge toward that end.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Owen Lowe said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B.

Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Will the doctors who read the study or were involved
in it surmise that educating the patient isn't worth
the bother?

Doctors surmise this not from such studies but from not
being reimbursed for the time they take for providing
such education.

Quoted message said:

Better to just medicate and get the numbers down to
the recommended numbers by expending the least time
and effort?

From a business view, it would be better. Physicians are
not as a general rule compensated at an hourly rate.

Well from my perspective, paying $185 for a 10 minutes of
face-to-face with the doc (not counting the 40 minutes of
sitting in the exam room with the only visitor being the
nurse to take my BP and ask about current health
conditions) should certainly get me some quality, fully
rounded medical advice and treatment. But that's another
touchy point.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After my coronary blockage and hospital stay, I
searched and read til all hours of the night, educated
myself and then set out to do all I could to ensure my
own future. As a result my cardiologist removed me
from the statin and blood pressure meds due to the
fantastic results. I ended up losing 30 pounds in the
process (6' and 175 lbs.) and am working toward 10
lubs more (winter was a [censored]). He even had to write a
letter to my new internist explaining why I wasn't
taking anything other than a daily aspirin and
carrying my little vial of NitroQuick (unused since my
episode 15 months ago).

Good for you. It sounds like you were self-motivated.
Actually, your example illustrates the value of an
information source such as SMC for folks who are self-
motivated. So how did you lose the 30 lbs?

I follow a low-carb way of eating. Lots of green veggies
(5-6 servings/dy), meat, little by way of grains and stay
away from hydrogenated, processed, manufactured "food". I
visit a fast food joint about once every 6 months. With
that, I do moderate quantity of mid to high exertion
exercise (3-4 days; 30 mins ea.; 160-170 HR) along with a
moderately active lifestyle.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just fed up with the attitude that we ought to
just pop a pill and all will be well with no effort or
sacrifice on our part.

Imho, eating less (and being a bit hungry most of the
time) is not a big sacrifice :-)

Yes, it's really not and the gains seem to be so
beneficial - though I must say I don't often feel hungry
"most of the time". I will feel tempted and deprived at
times but if I'm truly hungry there's plenty of things to
eat or drink that don't harm my health.

It is the "plenty" that will harm your health.

The solution (ime, works every time):

heartmdphd.comwtloss.aspOpen ↗

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, it's really not and the gains seem to be so
beneficial - though I must say I don't often feel hungry
"most of the time". I will feel tempted and deprived at
times but if I'm truly hungry there's plenty of things
to eat or drink that don't harm my health.

It is the "plenty" that will harm your health.

The solution (ime, works every time):

heartmdphd.comwtloss.aspOpen ↗

I believe you misinterpreted what I meant. By "plenty to
eat" I was referring to the variety in healthy fruits,
veggies, drinks and water that will eleviate between-meals-
hunger without grabbing for donuts, cookies,
hydrogenated chips or crackers, cakes, and other sugary,
processed whatnots.

Owen Lowe said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B.

Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Will the doctors who read the study or were involved in
it surmise that educating the patient isn't worth the
bother?

Doctors surmise this not from such studies but from not
being reimbursed for the time they take for providing
such education.

Quoted message said:

Better to just medicate and get the numbers down to the
recommended numbers by expending the least time and
effort?

From a business view, it would be better. Physicians are
not as a general rule compensated at an hourly rate.

Well from my perspective, paying $185 for a 10 minutes of
face-to-face with the doc (not counting the 40 minutes of
sitting in the exam room with the only visitor being the
nurse to take my BP and ask about current health
conditions) should certainly get me some quality, fully
rounded medical advice and treatment. But that's another
touchy point.

Her too. Cardiologist $175, electrophysiologist $275.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After my coronary blockage and hospital stay, I
searched and read til all hours of the night, educated
myself and then set out to do all I could to ensure my
own future. As a result my cardiologist removed me from
the statin and blood pressure meds due to the fantastic
results. I ended up losing 30 pounds in the process (6'
and 175 lbs.) and am working toward 10 lubs more
(winter was a [censored]). He even had to write a letter to
my new internist explaining why I wasn't taking
anything other than a daily aspirin and carrying my
little vial of NitroQuick (unused since my episode 15
months ago).

Good for you. It sounds like you were self-motivated.
Actually, your example illustrates the value of an
information source such as SMC for folks who are self-
motivated. So how did you lose the 30 lbs?

I follow a low-carb way of eating. Lots of green veggies
(5-6 servings/dy), meat, little by way of grains and stay
away from hydrogenated, processed, manufactured "food". I
visit a fast food joint about once every 6 months. With
that, I do moderate quantity of mid to high exertion
exercise (3-4 days; 30 mins ea.; 160-170 HR) along with a
moderately active lifestyle.

SNiP

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just fed up with the attitude that we ought to just
pop a pill and all will be well with no effort or
sacrifice on our part.

Imho, eating less (and being a bit hungry most of the
time) is not a big sacrifice :-)

Yes, it's really not and the gains seem to be so beneficial
- though I must say I don't often feel hungry "most of the
time". I will feel tempted and deprived at times but if I'm
truly hungry there's plenty of things to eat or drink that
don't harm my health.

Oliver Costich said:

Owen Lowe said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew B.

Chung said:

> Will the doctors who read the study or were involved
> in it surmise that educating the patient isn't worth
> the bother?

Doctors surmise this not from such studies but from not
being reimbursed for the time they take for providing
such education.

> Better to just medicate and get the numbers down to
> the recommended numbers by expending the least time
> and effort?

From a business view, it would be better. Physicians
are not as a general rule compensated at an hourly
rate.

Well from my perspective, paying $185 for a 10 minutes of
face-to-face with the doc (not counting the 40 minutes of
sitting in the exam room with the only visitor being the
nurse to take my BP and ask about current health
conditions) should certainly get me some quality, fully
rounded medical advice and treatment. But that's another
touchy point.

Her too. Cardiologist $175, electrophysiologist $275.

You wouldn't like how much I charge (there is the PhD
you know ;-).

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Owen Lowe said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew

B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, it's really not and the gains seem to be so
beneficial - though I must say I don't often feel
hungry "most of the time". I will feel tempted and
deprived at times but if I'm truly hungry there's
plenty of things to eat or drink that don't harm my
health.

It is the "plenty" that will harm your health.

The solution (ime, works every time):

heartmdphd.comwtloss.aspOpen ↗

I believe you misinterpreted what I meant.

Would assure you that I have not.

Quoted message said:

By "plenty to eat" I was referring to the variety in
healthy fruits, veggies, drinks and water that will
eleviate between-meals-hunger

If you are overweight, that "hunger" is not a warning of
impending starvation.

Quoted message said:

without grabbing for donuts, cookies, hydrogenated chips
or crackers, cakes, and other sugary, processed whatnots.

If you are overweight, you should not be grabbing anything
extra to eat whether the extra is "healthy" or not.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Wed, 19 May 2004 11:45:54 -0400 in article
<[email hidden]> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Quoted message said:

You wouldn't like how much I charge (there is the PhD you
know ;-).

Does that imply that you have patients? Not necessarily I
guess ;-).

--
Matti Narkia

Matti Narkia said:

Wed, 19 May 2004 11:45:54 -0400 in article
<[email hidden]> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung,

MD/PhD said:

You wouldn't like how much I charge (there is the PhD you
know ;-).

Does that imply that you have patients?

Yes.

Truth is simple.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

I for one am tired of people telling me to each plenty of
fresh fruit. I am not allowed to have all that much natural
sugar that in contained in fruit. A doctor told me once to
cut down on apples.

"Owen Lowe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:onlnlowe-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Dr. Andrew

B. Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, it's really not and the gains seem to be so
beneficial - though I must say I don't often feel
hungry "most of the time". I will feel tempted and
deprived at times but if I'm truly hungry there's
plenty

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

things to eat or drink that don't harm my health.

It is the "plenty" that will harm your health.

The solution (ime, works every time):

heartmdphd.comwtloss.aspOpen ↗

I believe you misinterpreted what I meant. By "plenty to
eat" I was referring to the variety in healthy fruits,
veggies, drinks and water that will eleviate between-meals-
hunger without grabbing for donuts, cookies, hydrogenated
chips or crackers, cakes, and other sugary, processed
whatnots.

Ha, seems no one wants to discuss prices. I just go to the
doctor and find out what the charge is "later". I would feel
like a fool asking how much they charge ahead of time. Are
we supposed to?

Don said:

Ha, seems no one wants to discuss prices. I just go to the
doctor and find out what the charge is "later". I would
feel like a fool asking how much they charge ahead of
time. Are we supposed to?

You can if you choose.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

What is all this about?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Is this spam?
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗

Don said:

Ha, seems no one wants to discuss prices. I just go to the
doctor and find out what the charge is "later". I would
feel like a fool asking how much they charge ahead of time.
Are we supposed to?

We certainly do in the UK. In 2000 an angiogram was £1200
and heart surgery £15 -£20,000. I paid for the angiogram but
would not have thought of doing that without knowing the
price first. Diana

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Don said:

Ha, seems no one wants to discuss prices. I just go to
the doctor and find out what the charge is "later". I
would feel like a fool asking how much they charge ahead
of time. Are we supposed to?

We certainly do in the UK. In 2000 an angiogram was £1200
and heart surgery £15 -£20,000. I paid for the angiogram
but would not have thought of doing that without knowing
the price first. Diana

Quoted message said:

I'm curious as to how that would work. Are those the costs
if you go outside "the system" or does pretty much everyone
pay around that? In the US I think the typical full cost of
an angiogram would probably be more, but the amount the
patient pays after typical employer provided insurance would
probably be less.

Thanks.

Bill