General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Why alternative medicine "works"...

Started by Henry · · Last activity · 129 posts · 4,892 views

This thread is locked and is currently read-only.

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
17 May 2004
Last activity
7 June 2004
Original author
Henry
Posts
129
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
4,892
Views / 30 days
4

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 129
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of such
    frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the result is a
    growing and glowing list of testimonials. Problems that do
    not heal spontaneously generate few contra-testimonials,
    usually because of death.

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two critically
    important resources of the afflicted: time and money.

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,
    but often pursue an agenda of greed - seeking some
    combination of personal wealth and recognition that
    would be unachievable when performance is actually
    measured by results.

  2. "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message Henry, you make it
    very easy to understand why so many folks consider jarheads
    the most stupid and gullible of all people.

  3. Thanks for your enlightened post. I'm sure it will help
    those many people who come to misc.health.alternative
    looking for alternative therapies.

    You epitomize why they don't trust the medical establishment
    in ever growing numbers. Thanks.

    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of such
    frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the result is
    a growing and glowing list of testimonials. Problems that
    do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two critically
    important resources of the afflicted: time and money.

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,
    but often pursue


    an

    Quoted message said:

    agenda of greed - seeking some combination of personal
    wealth and recognition that would be unachievable when
    performance is actually


    measured

    Quoted message said:

    by results.

  4. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Why alternative medicine "works"...
    From: "Henry" [email hidden]
    Date: 5/12/2004 6:35 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    Without medication,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Quoted message said:

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of such
    frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the result is a
    growing and glowing list of testimonials.

    Same could be said of any kind of conventional medicine.

    Quoted message said:

    Problems that do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    Well, no, the reason people are turning to alternative
    medicine, is the many unanswered health problems. The little
    black receipe book is limited to what is endorsed by
    organized medicine.

    Quoted message said:

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two critically
    important resources of the afflicted: time and money.

    Alterantive is growing because conv. has no answers.

    Quoted message said:

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,

    righto, anyone who uses alternative medicine is stupid.

    Quoted message said:

    but often pursue an agenda of greed - seeking some
    combination of personal wealth and recognition that would
    be unachievable when performance is actually measured by
    results.

    Wrong, wrong and wrong.

    RESULTS is WHY people chose alternative.

    Do tell us WHAT you would do if you had been to many
    conventional doctors and they had no answers?????

    You see, personal experience knows the answer to this, it is
    clear you don't.

    yourhealthbase.comalternative medicine.html

    Jan

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Henry said:

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of such
    frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the result is
    a growing and glowing list of testimonials. Problems that
    do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two critically
    important resources of the afflicted: time and money.

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,
    but often pursue an agenda of greed - seeking some
    combination of personal wealth and recognition that would
    be unachievable when performance is actually measured by
    results.

    Even for diseases which don't heal spontaneously, such as
    cancer, testimonials are misleading. What breast cancer
    patients who forego adjuvant chemotherapy and radiation
    after their surgery and then attribute their survival to
    "alternative" therapies don't tell you is that most early
    stage cancers are cured with surgery alone. Chemotherapy and
    radiation reduce the risk of recurrence, but the chance of
    survival with surgery alone is still pretty good. Even
    intermediate stage tumors have a reasonable (albeit much
    smaller) chance of being cured with surgery alone.
    Consequently, the "cure" described by these testimonials was
    the surgery, not the alternative treatment.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
    |you inconvenience me with questions?"

  6. "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of such
    frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the result is
    a growing and glowing list of testimonials. Problems that
    do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    This is one of the major factors involved, certainly. It
    is complex.

    But I mainly wanted to point out that it is not just within
    alternative medicine that inactive treatments regularly
    aquire wholly unjustified reputations for effectiveness.
    There is a long and ignoble history of this within
    mainstream medicine, with very many "promising" new
    treatments being tried and abandoned in my lifetime
    (sometimes to be then taken up by "alternative" medicine, as
    happened with chelation) . That is very the reason for the
    current reliance on well-designed studies, up to and
    including blinded RCTs.

    Peter Moran

  7. Disregarding the little boys bully fights and back to
    the subject.

    Alternative Medicine: Why so popular?

    by Hans R. Larsen, MSc ChE

    In 1997 Americans made 627 million visits to practitioners
    of alternative medicine and spent $27 billion of their own
    money to pay for alternative therapies. In contrast,
    Americans made only 386 million visits to their family
    doctor. It is estimated, by none other than the Harvard
    Medical School, that one out of every two persons in the
    United States between the ages of 35 and 49 years used at
    least one alternative therapy in 1997. That is a growth of
    47.3 per cent since 1990. This is spectacular by any means
    and of great concern to conventional (allopathic) medicine
    especially since the people using alternative medicine are
    primarily well-educated, affluent baby boomers(1). The
    trend to alternative medicine is repeated throughout
    Western society. In Australia 57 percent of the population
    now use some form of alternative medicine, in Germany 46
    percent do, and in France 49 percent do. The growth of some
    types of alternative medicine is indeed astounding. Between
    1991 and 1997 the use of herbal medicines in the United
    States grew by 380 per cent and the use of vitamin therapy
    by 130 per cent. These are impressive numbers by anyone's
    standard(1-3).

    What it is and isn't So why do people increasingly prefer
    alternative to conventional medicine? The reasons are pretty
    simple - it is safe and it works! While there is little
    doubt that allopathic medicine works well in the case of
    trauma and emergency (you don't call your herbalist if you
    get hit by a car), it is much less effective when it comes
    to prevention, chronic disease, and in addressing the
    mental, emotional, and spiritual needs of an individual.
    These are precisely the areas where alternative medicine
    excels. To most of the world's population, over 80 per cent
    to be precise, alternative medicine is not "alternative" at
    all, but rather the basis of the health care system. To Western-
    trained physicians alternative medicine is "something not
    taught in medical schools" and something that allopathic
    doctors don't do and, one could add, generally know nothing
    about. Alternative medicine actually encompasses a very
    large array of different systems and therapies ranging from
    ayurvedic medicine to vitamin therapy.

    Ayurvedic medicine has been practiced in India for the past
    five thousand years and has recently undergone a renaissance
    in the West due, in no small measure, to the work and
    lectures of Dr. Deepak Chopra, MD. Ayurvedic medicine is a
    very comprehensive system that places equal emphasis on
    body, mind, and spirit and uses a highly personalized
    approach to return an individual to a state where he or she
    is again in harmony with their environment. Ayurvedic
    medicine uses diet, exercise, yoga, meditation, massage,
    herbs, and medication and, despite its long lineage, is as
    applicable today as it was 5000 years ago. For example, the
    seeds of the Mucuna pruriens plant have long been used to
    treat Parkinson's disease in India; it is now receiving
    attention in conventional circles as it is more effective
    than l-dopa and has fewer side effects(4).

    Traditional Chinese medicine has been practiced for over
    3000 years and over one quarter of the world's population
    now uses one or more of its component therapies. TCM
    combines the use of medicinal herbs, acupuncture, and the
    use of therapeutic exercises such as Qi Gong. It has proven
    to be effective in the treatment of many chronic diseases
    including cancer, allergies, heart disease and AIDS. As does
    Ayurvedic medicine, TCM also focuses on the individual and
    looks for and corrects the underlying causes of imbalance
    and patterns of disharmony.

    Homeopathy was developed in the early 1800s by the German
    physician Samuel Hahnemann. It is a low-cost, non-toxic
    health care system now used by hundreds of millions of
    people around the world. It is particularly popular in South
    America and the British Royal Family has had a homeopathic
    physician for the last four generations. Homeopathy is an
    excellent first-aid system and is also superb in the
    treatment of minor ailments such as earaches, the common
    cold, and flu. Homeopathy is again based on the treatment of
    the individual and when used by a knowledgeable practitioner
    can also be very effective in the cure of conditions such as
    hay fever, digestive problems, rheumatoid arthritis, and
    respiratory infections.

    Chiropracty primarily involves the adjustment of spine and
    joints to alleviate pain and improve general health. It was
    practiced by the early Egyptians and was developed into its
    present form by the American Daniel David Palmer in 1895. It
    is now the most common form of alternative medicine in the
    United States. Chiropractors not only manipulate spine and
    joints, but also advise their patients on lifestyle and diet
    matters. They believe that humans possess an innate healing
    potential and that all disease can be overcome by properly
    activating this potential.

    Naturopathic medicine also strongly believes in the body's
    inherent ability to heal itself. Naturopathy emphasizes the
    need for seeking and treating the causes of a disease rather
    than simply suppressing its symptoms. Naturopaths use
    dietary modifications, herbal medicines, homeopathy,
    acupuncture, hydrotherapy, massage, and lifestyle counseling
    to achieve healing.

    Vitamin therapy or orthomolecular medicine uses vitamins,
    minerals, and amino acids to return a diseased body to
    wellness in the belief that the average diet today is
    often woefully inadequate in providing needed nutrients
    and that the need for specific nutrients is highly
    individual. Conditions as varied as hypertension,
    depression, cancer, and schizophrenia can all benefit
    enormously from vitamin therapy.

    Biofeedback, body work, massage therapy, reflexology,
    hydrotherapy, aromatherapy, and various other forms of
    energy medicine round out the vast spectrum of alternative
    medicine modalities.

    How is it different? So what sets alternative medicine apart
    from allopathic medicine?

    Conventional medicine is preferred in the treatment of
    trauma and emergencies while alternative medicine excels in
    the treatment of chronic disease, although homeopathy can
    also be very effective as a first-aid.

    Conventional medicine focuses on the relief of symptoms and
    rarely places emphasis on prevention or the treatment of the
    cause of a disorder. All alternative systems, on the other
    hand, strive to find and treat the cause of a disorder and
    frown on covering up the symptoms. Alternative therapies are
    also much more focused on prevention.

    Conventional medicine is organ specific, hence
    ophthalmologists, cardiologists, nephrologists,
    neurologists, etc. Alternative medicine, without exception,
    considers each person as a unique individual and uses a
    holistic approach in treatment.

    Conventional medicine believes in aggressive intervention to
    treat disease. It revels in terms such as "magic bullet" and
    "war" ("the war on cancer"😉, and prefers quick fixes (as do
    many patients). Alternative medicine believes in gentle, long-
    term support to enable the body's own innate powers to do
    the healing.

    Conventional medicine's main "arsenal" consists of surgery,
    chemotherapy, radiation, and powerful pharmaceutical drugs.
    Alternative medicine uses time-tested, natural remedies and
    gentle, hands-on treatments.

    Conventional medicine practitioners are guided in their
    treatment by strict rules set out by the Colleges of
    Physicians and Surgeons. This often leads to a "one size
    fits all" approach. Practitioners of alternative medicine,
    on the other hand, treat each patient as an individual and
    do what, in their opinion, is best rather than what is
    specified in a "rule book".

    Conventional medicine sees the body as a mechanical system
    (the heart is a pump and the kidneys are a filter) and
    believes most disorders can be traced to chemical imbalances
    and therefore are best treated with powerful chemicals
    (drugs). Alternative medicine systems, almost without
    exception, accept that the body is suffused by a network of
    channels (meridians) that carry a subtle form of life
    energy. Imbalances or blockages of this energy are what lead
    to disease and clearing of the blockages and strengthening
    of the energy is the ultimate goal of alternative medicine.

    Conventional medicine prefers patients to be passive and
    accept their treatment without too many questions.
    Alternative medicine, in contrast, prefers and indeed, in
    many cases, requires the patient to take a highly active
    part in both prevention and treatment.

    Both conventional and alternative medicine ascribe to the
    principle "Do no harm". However, while alternative medicine
    is essentially achieving this goal, conventional medicine
    seems to have almost totally lost sight of it. Hospitals are
    now the third largest killer in Australia and over one
    million people are seriously injured in American hospitals
    every year. Blood infections acquired in American hospitals
    cause 62,000 fatalities every year and bypass surgery
    results in 25,000 strokes a year. Two million patients
    experience adverse drug reactions in hospitals in the United
    States every year; of these, over 100,000 die making hospital-
    induced adverse drug reactions the fourth leading cause of
    death after heart disease, cancer, and stroke(5-11).

    The practice of conventional medicine is intimately tied in
    with the whole medico-pharmaceutical-industrial complex
    whose first priority is to make a profit. Although most
    conventional physicians have "healing the patient" as their
    first priority, they find it increasingly difficult to do so
    while operating within the system with its pharmaceutical
    salesmen, its rule books, its fear of malpractice suits, its
    endless paperwork to satisfy bureaucrats and insurance
    companies, and its time pressures. Most alternative medicine
    practitioners have no such constraints and pressures and can
    give the patient their undivided attention.

    Conventional medicine generally resists the use of natural
    remedies long after their efficacy has been scientifically
    proven (Germany is an exception to this). Most alternative
    medicine practitioners eagerly embrace new remedies and, in
    many cases, can point to years of safe use. Ginkgo biloba is
    now the most prescribed drug in Germany and has been found
    effective in the prevention and treatment of Alzheimer's
    disease(12). Also in Germany the herb saw palmetto is now
    prescribed in 90 per cent of all cases of enlarged prostate;
    in the United States 300,000 prostate operations are
    performed each year to solve this problem. More profitable
    for sure, but dangerous and unpleasant for the patient(13).

    The major source of funds for medical research is
    pharmaceutical companies who, not surprisingly, are very
    reluctant to support investigations into lifestyle
    modifications, vitamins, and other unpatentable products.
    Nevertheless, a growing number of medical researchers are
    focusing their attention on natural supplements and remedies
    and are publishing their work in mainstream journals. The
    benefits of antioxidants have now been thoroughly documented
    by researchers at the Harvard Medical School and similar
    prestigious institutions. Folic acid, a simple B vitamin,
    has also been extensively studied in university laboratories
    and has been found to be effective in preventing or
    ameliorating heart attacks, strokes, angina, intermittent
    claudication, atherosclerosis, kidney disease, colon cancer,
    hearing loss, and Alzheimer's disease(14-18). Although
    alternative practitioners and a small group of conventional
    physicians do embrace the use of natural therapies and
    products the vast majority of "establishment" physicians are
    still dragging their heels and even denigrating and
    ridiculing alternative medicine. This fact, perhaps more
    than anything else, is what is driving the rapid and massive
    switch from conventional to alternative medicine.

    CLICK HERE FOR THE LATEST ON ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE

    REFERENCES

    Eisenberg, David M., et al. Trends in alternative medicine
    use in the United States, 1990-1997. Journal of the American
    Medical Association, Vol. 280, November 11, 1998, pp. 1569-
    75 Bensoussan, Alan. Complementary medicine - where lies its
    appeal? Medical Journal of Australia, Vol. 170, March 15,
    1999, pp. 247-48 (editorial) Fisher, Peter and Ward, Adam.
    Complementary medicine in Europe. British Medical Journal,
    Vol. 309, July 9, 1994, pp. 107-11 Hussain, Ghazala and
    Manyam, Bala V. Mucuna pruriens proves more effective than
    l-dopa in Parkinson's disease animal model. Phytotherapy
    Research, Vol. 11, 1997, pp. 419-23 Ernst, Edzard. Harmless
    herbs? A review of the recent literature. American Journal
    of Medicine, Vol. 104, February 1998, pp. 170-78 Anderson,
    Ian. Hospital errors are number three killer in Australia.
    New Scientist, June 10, 1995, p. 5 Cordner, Stephen M.
    Australia's preventable hospital deaths. The Lancet, Vol.
    345, June 17, 1995, p. 1562 Bates, David W., et al.
    Incidence of adverse drug events and potential adverse drug
    events. Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol.
    274, July 5, 1995, pp. 29-34 Pittet, Didier and Wenzel,
    Richard P. Nosocomial bloodstream infections. Archives of
    Internal Medicine, Vol. 155, June 12, 1995, pp. 1177-84
    10. Roach, Gary W., et al. Adverse cerebral outcomes after
    coronary bypass surgery. New England Journal of
    Medicine, Vol. 335, December 19, 1996, pp. 1857-63
    Lazarou, Jason, et al. Incidence of adverse drug
    reactions in hospitalized patients. Journal of the
    American Medical Association, Vol. 279, April 15, 1998,
    pp. 1200-05 and pp. 1216-17 (editorial) The Lancet,
    November 7, 1992, pp. 1136-39 Wilt, Timothy J., et al.
    Saw palmetto extracts for treatment of benign prostatic
    hyperplasia. Journal of the American Medical
    Association, Vol. 280, November 11, 1998, pp. 1604-09
    Murray, Michael T. Encyclopedia of Nutritional
    Supplements, 1996, Rocklin, CA, Prima Publishing, pp.
    119-26 Moghadasian, Mohammed H., et al. Homocysteine and
    coronary artery disease. Archives of Internal Medicine,
    Vol. 157, November 10, 1997, pp. 2299-2308 Perry, I.J.,
    et al. Prospective study of serum total homocysteine
    concentration and risk of stroke in middle-aged British
    men. The Lancet, Vol. 346, November 25, 1995, pp. 1395-
    98 Lowering blood homocysteine with folic acid based
    supplements: meta- analysis of randomised trials.
    British Medical Journal, Vol. 316, March 21, 1998, pp.
    894-98 Clarke, Robert, et al. Folate, vitamin B12, and
    serum total homocysteine levels in confirmed Alzheimer
    disease. Archives of Neurology, Vol. 55, November 1998,
    pp. 1449-55 and 1407-08 (editorial)

    Bibliography Burton Goldberg Group. Alternative Medicine:
    The Definitive Guide, Puyallup, Washington, Future Medicine
    Publishing, Inc. 1993 Gursche, Siegfried and Rona, Zoltan,
    editors. Encyclopedia of Natural Healing, Vancouver, BC,
    Alive Publishing, Inc. 1997 Micozzi, Marc S., editor.
    Fundamentals of Complementary and Alternative Medicine, NY,
    Churchill Livingstone Publishers

  8. "thisisfun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message Henry, you make
    it very easy to understand why so many folks consider
    jarheads the most stupid and gullible of all people.

    What have you done for your country?

  9. "Dave Wickware" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for your enlightened post. I'm sure it will help
    those many people who come to misc.health.alternative
    looking for alternative therapies.

    Yes, it will alert them, hopefully, to the spamming
    charlatans.

    Quoted message said:

    You epitomize why they don't trust the medical
    establishment in ever


    growing

    Quoted message said:

    numbers. Thanks.

    Ever growing? Like toxic mold?

    Quoted message said:

    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of
    such frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the
    result is a growing and glowing list of testimonials.
    Problems that do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two
    critically important resources of the afflicted: time
    and money.

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,
    but often pursue


    an

    Quoted message said:

    agenda of greed - seeking some combination of personal
    wealth and recognition that would be unachievable when
    performance is actually


    measured

    Quoted message said:

    by results.


  10. One must admire the remarkable perspective of Jan's response
    to my original post.

    First, I meant what I said: the vast majority of human ills
    and injuries heal spontaneously, and will permit this
    addendum: "without medication or ANY medical care".
    However, I must also add that those conditions which are
    unlikely to resolve spontaneously will sometimes spiral
    into disability or even mortality, and to diagnose such
    conditions requires skill that is not taught outside of
    medical school. Further, I will add that those which don't
    resolve spontaneously are likelier to be healed by
    conventional medicine than by quackery.

    Jan refers to "organized medicine". Presumably the
    obverse of Jan's coin is "dis-organized" medicine, and
    with that I agree.

    Jan says: alternative medicine is growing because
    conventional medicine has no answers. She's right, of
    course. But alternative medicine doesn't sell answers - it
    sells hope. There's a great deal of money to be made
    offering hope to those suffering from conditions - real or
    imaginary - for which there are no cures in medical science.
    But offering hope to terminally ill people doesn't last;
    there's even more profit to be made offering the hope of
    prevention to healthy people. As an example, to those who
    send me $25 each month, I will gladly mail a supplement that
    I hope will prevent [name the disease]. And if it fails,
    your money will be cheerfully (!) refunded.

    When I pointed out that those using alternative medicine are
    "ignorant", Jan said they're "stupid". Well, those terms are
    interchangeable only among those with very restricted
    vocabularies. I really meant ignorant. As a perfect example,
    you're certainly not stupid, Jan, but you're incredibly
    ignorant. Look it up.

    Henry

    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040512154141.04110.00001189@mb-
    m14.aol.com...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Why alternative medicine "works"... From:
    "Henry" [email hidden] Date: 5/12/2004 6:35 AM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    Without medication,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Quoted message said:

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of such
    frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the result is
    a growing and glowing list of testimonials.

    Same could be said of any kind of conventional medicine.

    Quoted message said:

    Problems that do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    Well, no, the reason people are turning to alternative
    medicine, is the


    many

    Quoted message said:

    unanswered health problems. The little black receipe book
    is limited to


    what is

    Quoted message said:

    endorsed by organized medicine.

    Quoted message said:

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two critically
    important resources of the afflicted: time and money.

    Alterantive is growing because conv. has no answers.

    Quoted message said:

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,

    righto, anyone who uses alternative medicine is stupid.

    Quoted message said:

    but often pursue an agenda of greed - seeking some
    combination of personal wealth and recognition that
    would be unachievable when performance is actually


    measured

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by results.

    Wrong, wrong and wrong.

    RESULTS is WHY people chose alternative.

    Do tell us WHAT you would do if you had been to many
    conventional doctors


    and

    Quoted message said:

    they had no answers?????

    You see, personal experience knows the answer to this, it
    is clear you


    don't.

    Quoted message said:


    yourhealthbase.comalternative medicine.html

    Jan

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Dave Wickware said:

    Thanks for your enlightened post. I'm sure it will help
    those many people who come to misc.health.alternative
    looking for alternative therapies.

    One can only hope so. Henry's observations were right on.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do
    |you inconvenience me with questions?"

  12. "So many folks..."? Speak for yourself.

    Regarding stupidity and gullibility, it's you that pays for
    pseudomedical quackery based more upon wishful thinking than
    replicable science. The typical Marine gets those shots,
    runs those miles, spends 50% of the day in class, and fights
    World War IV: "Islam Against the West - 732AD revisited".
    Most people consider jarheads as the worst thing that ever
    happened to the enemies of our country. Your future and that
    of your progeny depend upon these "stupid" and "gullible"
    young men and women, who usually leave the service to run
    companies, and people like you.

    Isn't this a great place to have these little chats? Jan
    wondered why I leaped in with my "first post". Hah! I've
    been laughing at Jan and her ilk (especially at her ilk -
    have you ever sniffed that silly thing?) for years - and
    even wasted electrons more than once illuminating her
    ignorance (not stupidity, Jan, never that). In fact, last
    year I taught a class in which I used some of Jan's posts as
    hilarious examples of... <never mind>

    Henry

    "thisisfun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message Henry, you make
    it very easy to understand why so many folks consider
    jarheads the most stupid and gullible of all people.

  13. "Orac" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, "Henry"

    Quoted message said:

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of
    such frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the
    result is a growing and glowing list of testimonials.
    Problems that do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two
    critically important resources of the afflicted: time
    and money.

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,
    but often pursue


    an

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    agenda of greed - seeking some combination of personal
    wealth and recognition that would be unachievable when
    performance is actually


    measured

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by results.

    Even for diseases which don't heal spontaneously, such as
    cancer, testimonials are misleading. What breast cancer
    patients who forego adjuvant chemotherapy and radiation
    after their surgery and then attribute their survival to
    "alternative" therapies don't tell you is that most early
    stage cancers are cured with surgery alone. Chemotherapy
    and radiation reduce the risk of recurrence, but the
    chance of survival with surgery alone is still pretty
    good. Even intermediate stage tumors have a reasonable
    (albeit much smaller) chance of being cured with surgery
    alone. Consequently, the "cure" described by these
    testimonials was the surgery, not the alternative
    treatment.

    --
    Orac

    Just love to cut em eh?

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    thisisfun said:


    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message Henry, you make
    it very easy to understand why so many folks consider
    jarheads the most stupid and gullible of all people.

    Although many other folks consider *you* to be one of the
    most stupid and gullible of all people, tools.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  15. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Why alternative medicine "works"... From:
    "Henry" [email hidden] Date: 5/12/2004 6:35 AM Pacific
    Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    The vast majority of human ills and injuries heal
    spontaneously.

    Without medication,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Quoted message said:

    If a medical problem is "treated" with naturopathy,
    homeopathy, chiropractic, etc., the practitioners of such
    frauds take credit when healing occurs, and the result is
    a growing and glowing list of testimonials.

    Same could be said of any kind of conventional medicine.

    Quoted message said:

    Problems that do not heal spontaneously generate few contra-
    testimonials, usually because of death.

    Well, no, the reason people are turning to alternative
    medicine, is the


    many

    Quoted message said:

    unanswered health problems. The little black receipe book
    is limited to


    what is

    Quoted message said:

    endorsed by organized medicine.

    Jan, your thesis that doctors choose to ignore "real
    diseases" because they "have no answers" doesn't hold water.
    Don't you realize that describing a here-to-fore
    unrecognized disease or syndrome is the road to medical
    immortality? Do you think that Dr. Parkinson had "the
    answer" to Parkinson's disease when he defined it? Or
    perhaps Dr. Alzhiemer's fame is diminished because we still
    don't have the answer to that variety of senile dementia.
    Conventional medicine not only does not ignore your "real
    disease," but actually has some answers in the form of
    effective treatment for those somatization disorder
    sufferers who are willing to accept it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Alternative medicine "therapies" dissipate two critically
    important resources of the afflicted: time and money.

    Alterantive is growing because conv. has no answers.

    The answers are there; you just do not want to hear them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Proponents of such therapies are usually just ignorant,

    righto, anyone who uses alternative medicine is stupid.

    No, some very wily people use alternative medicine to bilk
    the naive out of their money.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    but often pursue an agenda of greed - seeking some
    combination of personal wealth and recognition that
    would be unachievable when performance is actually


    measured

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    by results.

    Wrong, wrong and wrong.

    RESULTS is WHY people chose alternative.

    The lack of results is why alternative must depend on
    testimonial instead of reliable research data
    demonstrating results.

    Quoted message said:


    Do tell us WHAT you would do if you had been to many
    conventional doctors


    and

    Quoted message said:

    they had no answers?????

    You see, personal experience knows the answer to this, it
    is clear you


    don't.

    If you think that your personal experience can predict what
    I would do in any given scenario, you are mistaken.

    Quoted message said:


    yourhealthbase.comalternative medicine.html

    Congratulations, Jan. This URL doesn't have credit card
    symbols on its home page. (They're on the second page.)

    yourhealthbase.comsubscriptions.htm

    --Rich

  16. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Disregarding the little boys bully fights and back to the
    subject.

    Alternative Medicine: Why so popular? by Hans R. Larsen,
    MSc ChE In 1997 Americans made 627 million visits to
    practitioners of alternative medicine and spent $27
    billion of their own money to pay for alternative
    therapies. In contrast, Americans made only 386 million
    visits to their


    family

    Quoted message said:

    doctor.

    So.....a conclusion could be that sick people have to
    go twice as often to alternative medicine than to
    medical doctors?

  17. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Disregarding the little boys bully fights and back to the
    subject.

    Ahy...so jan does not want to take the *Longview* and offer
    her *Helping Hands*. Perhaps she needs another ride on the
    Illinois Central.

  18. [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Disregarding the little boys bully fights and back to the
    subject.

    Alternative Medicine: Why so popular?

    by Hans R. Larsen, MSc ChE

    In 1997 Americans made 627 million visits to practitioners
    of alternative medicine and spent $27 billion of their own
    money to pay for alternative therapies. In contrast,
    Americans made only 386 million visits to their family
    doctor. It is estimated, by none other than the Harvard
    Medical School, that one out of every two persons in the
    United States between the ages of 35 and 49 years used at
    least one alternative therapy in 1997.

    This statistic includes those who used a gift certificate
    they received for Mother's Day for a massage. It doesn't
    break down the use of alt. therapies into any specific
    modalities.

    It also neglects to specify whether these alt. therapies
    were used in lieu of conventional care or in addition to
    such treatment. I'd suspect that many alt. treatment seekers
    also availed themselves of mainstream health care as well.
    Many of us utilize both types of health care --
    complementary therapies often yield satisfactory results.

  19. "M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t-May 12, 2004" <M.a.r.k P.r.o.b.e.r.t
    [email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "thisisfun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message Henry, you
    make it very easy to understand why so many folks
    consider jarheads the most stupid and gullible of all
    people.

    What have you done for your country?


    Mark, how many years did you put in the military? Where?
    When? Why? or not...........

  20. Ritalin may help you slow down and post intelligently.

    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "So many folks..."? Speak for yourself.

    Regarding stupidity and gullibility, it's you that pays
    for pseudomedical quackery based more upon wishful
    thinking than replicable science. The typical Marine gets
    those shots, runs those miles, spends 50% of the day


    in

    Quoted message said:

    class, and fights World War IV: "Islam Against the
    West - 732AD


    revisited".

    Quoted message said:

    Most people consider jarheads as the worst thing that ever
    happened to the enemies of our country. Your future and
    that of your progeny depend upon these "stupid" and
    "gullible" young men and women, who usually leave the
    service to run companies, and people like you.

    Isn't this a great place to have these little chats? Jan
    wondered why I leaped in with my "first post". Hah! I've
    been laughing at Jan and her ilk (especially at her ilk -
    have you ever sniffed that silly thing?) for years - and
    even wasted electrons more than once illuminating her


    ignorance

    Quoted message said:

    (not stupidity, Jan, never that). In fact, last year I
    taught a class in which I used some of Jan's posts as
    hilarious examples of... <never mind>

    Henry

    "thisisfun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message Henry, you
    make it very easy to understand why so many folks
    consider jarheads the most stupid and gullible of all
    people.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.